Hurray for the Riff Raff - Alibi

Introduction

0:00You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishikesh Hirwe.

0:10I'm going to be on tour for the next few weeks, and all the dates are at songexploder.net slash live. I'm going to be playing songs from my new album, In the Last Hour of Light, with a full band, and I'm going to be talking about the making of my album with a special guest moderator in each city. I get to be the interviewee instead of the interviewer. So I'm going to be joined by Jason Manzoukas, Samin Nosrat, Allison Russell, Joshua Molina, Ken Jennings and John Roderick, Min Jin Lee, and Adam Scott. It's a really personal album, and I hope you can make it out to one of the shows.

0:41You can get tickets and more info at songexploder.net slash live.

0:48Summer. It's when we share more time, more memories, and more photos. And at AT&T, the iPhone 17 Pro is your summer essential. It's center stage front camera auto-adjusts the frame to fit everyone into group selfies. You don't even have to turn your phone. And AT&T makes sharing those pics with everyone easy. Right now at AT&T, ask how you can get the iPhone 17 Pro on them with eligible iPhone trade-in, any condition. Requires trade-in of iPhone 15 Plus or higher, excluding iPhone 16e and 17e.

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Content Warning

1:33Just a heads up before we start, this episode contains references to drug use and drug addiction, including in young teens.

1:42Alinda Seguera is a singer and songwriter from the Bronx. They formed Hooray for the Riff Raff in 2007. And since then, they've released eight albums. Their most recent is The Past is Still Alive, which came out in 2024. It was named one of the best albums of the year in The New York Times, The Associated Press, Entertainment Weekly, and The Atlantic. And Pitchfork called it one of the best albums of the decade so far. For this episode, I spoke to Alinda about the first track on the album, Alibi. My name's Alinda Seguera, and my band is called Hooray for the Riff Raff.

Song Story

2:41I get the sense from this song that there's a lot of history that went into it, but I was wondering for you, where does the story of this song begin? I think this song started shortly after I released my album, Life on Earth, the album before Past is Still Alive. I released that in February 2022, and putting out a record so shortly after the pandemic was honestly hell. It just felt really hard.

3:12I hadn't put out a record in a long time. Traveling and touring was so scary and stressful. I was just feeling like, is the world ending? You know, like, is music ever going to be the same? Am I ever going to be able to pay my rent? Like, I was feeling so much fear. Just feeling like, I don't know if I can do this anymore. And I don't know how to do anything else. Making music and writing songs is my purpose in life.

3:43So it was a really scary time period, but it was creating this urgency to be like, okay, let's just give it one more go. And let's write as many songs as we can and be as bare as possible. And at least I can tell myself, okay, I really gave it my all. So I was at home in New Orleans. I don't live there anymore, but I still lived there at the time. And I was going on walks every day around the bayou.

4:16And this line, you don't have to die if you don't want to die, was just ringing through my head. Because I felt like a metaphorical death happening in my life. I remember coming home and having this idea in my head. And, you know, there was this classical guitar that I had lying around. And I really liked finger picking on it. And I'd been trying to mess around with different chord shapes, even if I didn't know what the chords were.

4:47Just to try to, like, find some inspiration. I was getting so sick of my cowboy chords, you know. So I started playing this little finger picking pattern with these chords that I didn't even know what they were. And it just really transported me. It was like a trick. All of a sudden, I felt like the wheels started turning. You don't have to die if you don't die. Take it all back, baby.

5:20Live your life. Maybe even be a good friend of mine. Baby, I.

5:30I'm just doing stream of consciousness. And it'll be, like, 30, 40 voice memos of me just trying to figure out what is this song supposed to be. We don't have to cry if we don't want to cry. Maybe you ain't got something left in this heart of mine. Washed up in the sand on the beach of time. Baby, I. Sometimes when I'm writing, a line appears to me, and it feels like this pin on a map, and the map is just blank.

6:12And it feels like an obsession of, like, how do I get there? What are you trying to tell me? You know? So that's what was going on with this one. You could take it all back in the nick of time. You can take it all back in the nick of time. And maybe even be a good friend of mine. Baby, I. I was thinking, like, how do I stop being my own enemy? And I really liked, you could take it all back in the nick of time.

6:44Like, what if you just, like, held on a little longer? And then I need to listen back later and be like, okay, now that I'm out of the emotion of it, now I can think critically about the craft of it. To meditate on what does this mean? You don't have to die if you don't want to die. And it brought up all these people that I grew up with that I really loved who were struggling with addiction. And how I would just do anything to be able to make this sickness that they had go away.

7:19I grew up in New York. I grew up in the Bronx. But I got into punk pretty early when I was, like, 13. And it was really a lifeline for me. I was struggling with depression as a kid. And this, like, punk scene that was happening in New York City at the time was so important to me. And it really became my family. And I just knew a lot of kids really struggling with heroin. And it was just so easy to get and so cheap.

7:53How did you manage to escape that? I was just really scared of doing any drugs. I was so afraid of being out of control. I mean, also, my dad was a Vietnam vet, you know. So I heard plenty about the guys at the Veterans Hospital struggling with addiction. I remember really arguing with a close friend of mine. We were both probably 14 years old. And at the time, I felt so grown. And they were like, you know, this is just my life path.

8:23Like, this was just set out for me. I think I'm going to be an addict. My dad was an addict. You know, that was the story. They were telling me, and we were just two little kids. But at the time, we felt like we were ancient, you know. And I was trying to be like, this doesn't have to be your fate. That memory led me to that frustration and that love and that just trying to break through to somebody. And it led to, I see your track marks poking out your hoodie sleeve.

8:54I want my language to be specific and I want it to be so true to me and my life. And that image felt really like, okay, this is true. We would get in trouble if we drank in Tompkins Square Park, which is where I used to hang out as a kid.

9:50So we would go to East River Park and it would just be like all these train riders and older crusty punks. And people would get some food on their food stamps and they'd grill and there'd be dogs everywhere and people would be playing tapes on their like boom boxes and people would be doing drugs. And it was just like this world that I was in and it kind of felt like this was my version of like family barbecues, you know.

10:23And as a young kid, because I was searching for belonging, you know, I was really wrapped up in what my friends were going through and it was a way for me to not have to think about, well, where am I going? What do I want to do? And how am I hurting myself? And I just really thought that loving someone meant just giving up everything and being totally devoted.

10:55And I had to learn, honestly, making a band and starting to write songs was what gave me a structure in my life and what gave me a structure in relationships. I get so much clearer when I know the name of the song.

11:35When the name appears, then you have the story, like maybe the lyrics aren't totally fleshed out yet, but Alibi, it's this feeling of being an outsider to an experience that you're witnessing, that you're so wrapped up in and you're so worried about. But I don't want to be a part of covering this up or hiding it from somebody, hiding it from yourself. I have to try to convince you that you deserve to get out of this and you deserve more.

12:08But I can't be around for the downfall. It's too painful for me. That was what Alibi said to me. And I guess it also worked with me talking to myself, you know, of like, OK, if we're going to do this one more time, then do it with everything you got. You know, you know, the time can take you for a sprint, can't really do you in, can't leave you with the pens, baby, try to live again.

12:43Maybe take my hand, maybe we'll start a band, just try to understand, oh baby, help me understand. My conversation with Alinda Seguera continues after this.

13:01Song Exploder is sponsored by Notion. Notion is a connected workspace that brings all of your notes and docs and projects into one place that just works. It's seamless, flexible, powerful, and it's actually fun to use. The thing in Notion that I'm actually most excited about these days is a simple little project that I started to help me keep track of the podcasts that I'm listening. Sometimes I want to listen to a podcast, but when I opened the app, I realized that I haven't finished the one that I was currently listening to.

13:31So I used Notion's custom agent to build a table where I can keep track of everything I'm listening to with a link to the episode. Plus, I added a spot where I can make notes on what I thought of the episode so I can review it later. So try Notion and Notion's custom agents now at Notion.com slash SongExploder. That's Notion.com slash SongExploder to try custom agents today. And when you use that link, you're supporting the show. Notion.com slash SongExploder. SongExploder is sponsored by the game Mixtape.

14:06And to learn more, I talked to one of the creators. My name is Johnny Galvatron. I'm the writer and director of Mixtape. It's about three teenagers on their last day of high school going to their final party together, listening to the greatest mixtape of all time. And where did the idea for this game originally come from? Just wanting to make a game based around That's Good by Devo, which is the greatest song of all time. There's just something alive in that song that speaks to me. And it's very much a game about being a music lover and someone who appreciates music and knows where to place it in their life.

14:39And then game-wise, there are different kinds of mechanics. There's different kinds of music. There's different kind of art style. So the game as a whole should be viewed as a mixtape and kind of this artistry of arrangement. And so how is the game itself like a mixtape? So usually in a video game, you will have a standard set of mechanics, which might be fighting. But in a mixtape, there's different people saying different things with different vibes. And you want each song to be given its own experience, its own life.

15:11And you want to use the medium. That's what's kind of important about making video games. You want to use the medium to show what the music is showing. We have this song, BJ Thomas, most of all, where a friend gets betrayed and she floats back through town and just kind of knocks everything out of her way as she floats through town and you control her. And like, what a beautiful way to kind of use that song and to use a mechanic and input to show the betrayal and the despondency and the sadness. And when you can get all those things mixed together and hit those crescendos where you hit between video game, music, narrative, that's the goal, that's the diamond that you aim for.

15:48I think you would really dig it. Mixtape comes out May 7th on console and PC. Check it out at mixtape.game. Song Exploder is brought to you by Shopify. They're the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S., from household names like Heinz and Allbirds to brands that are just getting started. I just sold for the first time some of my pottery. And if I ever get to the point where I can do that seriously, then I'm going to be setting up shop with Shopify because they can accelerate your efficiency, whether you're uploading new products or trying to improve existing ones.

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Recording Process

16:59When it came time to record, did you already know if there was someone that you wanted to work with as a producer? I had time booked with Brad Cook. We had made our first record together with Life on Earth, and I just loved the process. And I thought it was really challenging, and I thought I was making the best work I'd ever made. And I knew I wanted to do it again. You know, I knew that he was the person that could push me. So I had studio time booked for March, and then maybe three weeks before, my dad passed away very suddenly.

17:39So my mind and my body and my spirit were all just in a totally shell-shocked place by the time I got to the studio. With this song in particular, Brad kept telling me, this is not a finger-picking song. This is like a banger. This is like an anthemic song. He kept telling me that. And I was just like so in the muck of my mind. I was like, I don't know what you're talking about.

18:11I just couldn't hear it. But I thought it was going to be finger-picking, like no percussion. And he was like, we need to get this driving energy to this song. So I was like, okay, let's try it.

18:37So we add drums.

18:42Jan Westerlind is playing drums. Brad adds some bass.

18:58But I could not get the vocal take. I just like, the vocals felt so hard. I was so not used. I was like, am I supposed to be happy? I was just like, I don't know how to sing this song at like this different driving feel. It felt like I was doing an impersonation of myself. But then his brother, Phil Cook, came in and laid down this guitar line. I was like, holy shit.

19:41This is classic. When I heard that guitar line, I just saw such an expansive highway, desert, nowhere. Like, it just felt so lonesome to me. But it also felt driving. And I just remember being like, oh my God, that's it.

20:14That's the song. The choruses is when we get to the present day, where it's me looking back on my life. Time can take you for a ride, can take you by surprise.

20:49Maybe you'll roll snake eyes. That also felt very much of that street kid world and New York hanging outside in the park world. Just people playing craps. People like playing boxcars. It made me think about gambles that we take, you know, whether it's like trying out a drug or getting fucked up or trying to start a band or, you know, just all the gambles that we take all the time. But then in the second chorus, you have different lyrics, which I thought was interesting.

21:23Yeah. You know, I thought about Dolly Parton because I read something that said that Dolly really thinks that if there is a change you can make in a lyric, you should do it. Like, don't get lazy. So I thought about that. I'd been plagued by this image of getting the bends and this feeling of going really deep into memory and that you have to be careful about how you come back into the present world because you can get the bends because you're going so deep.

22:03So I was learning how to be gentle with myself about memory and coming back to, well, here I am right now. And right now I'm I'm safe, actually. Time can take you for a spin. Can't really do you in. Can't leave you with the bends. Baby, try to live again and play another hand. Maybe we'll start a band. I want you to understand, baby, help me understand.

22:33So me and Brad get very, when it comes to harmonies, it becomes very like we're one brain. And he's just like pointing up, pointing down, saying a note, and I'll start singing it. And it's like, it feels like I'm surfing. Because you don't have to die if you don't want to die. Maybe I got something left that is worth a try. But I'm not going to be your alibi this time. This record really was a next chapter for me in my life.

23:08And as an artist, this time in my life that I thought was an ending, suddenly it was like, oh, my God, it's only just beginning. Especially when this song came out and the way that people responded to it, it felt immediately different than any other time in my career. And I just felt like, whoa, I'm not giving up on this. We're going to do this. And I felt my dad with me.

23:39I felt his spirit. You know, when I was in the studio, you know, I brought photos of him. And I don't know, I just felt like he was there with me and he was looking out for me. And then, you don't have to die if you don't want to die, suddenly that started to mean my father will never die because he lives on in me and he lives on in my music and in my stories. And this song suddenly had this whole new meaning.

Full Song

24:19And now, here's Alibi by Hooray for the Riff Raff in its entirety. You don't have to die if you don't want to die. You could take it all back in the nick of time.

24:52Maybe even be a good friend of mine Baby, I And we won't have to cry if we don't want to cry Maybe I got something left in this hard pine A wash in the sand on the beach of time Baby, I You know, you know that time can take you for a ride Can't take you by surprise

25:23Maybe you will snake eyes Baby, tell me why You gotta play your luck Do aces call your bluff I love you very much And all that other stuff Thawing out my heart like meat I see your track marks poking through your hoodie sleeve Tick-tack-toe game to the destiny I grieve

25:55Marching towards the East River Park You told me your big secret on the FDR I couldn't hear you of the choppers and the bus and cars So far You know, you know that time can take you for a spin Can't really do you in Can't leave you with the bends Baby, try to live again And play another hand Maybe we'll start a band

26:27I want you to understand Baby, help me understand Cause you don't have to die If you don't wanna die Maybe I got something left That is worth a try But I'm not gonna be your alibi This time Visit songexploder.net to learn more

27:17You'll find links to buy or stream Alibi And you can watch the music video This episode was produced by me, Craig Ely, Mary Dolan, and Kathleen Smith With production assistance from Tiger Biscop The episode artwork is by Carlos Lerma And I made the show's theme music and logo Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX A network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts You can learn more about our shows at radiotopia.fm If you'd like to hear more from me, subscribe to my newsletter

27:49You can find it on the Song Exploder website You can also get a Song Exploder shirt at songexploder.net slash shirt I'm Rishikesh Hirway Thanks for listening I want to tell you about another Radiotopia show called Proxy It's hosted by Yoay Shah, who you might know from her time hosting Invisibilia from NPR

28:19On Proxy, Yoay tackles your niche emotional conundrums Maybe you have a question that is impossible to get answers for Because no one in your life can relate Or the person you wish you could talk to about it isn't in your life anymore So Yoay scours the world for the perfect stranger for you to talk to Someone who's been in the same situation or has relevant experience And can hopefully provide the insight that you're looking for It's emotional investigative journalism at your service Listen to Proxy with Yoay Shah wherever you get your podcasts