294: The Power of Deciding

Welcome and guest introduction

0:00Hello, greetings. Hope you are well. Welcome to the more podcast. I am Claire of the Savory and joining me today is Anna of the Mangan. Whenever you say it, I'm like, should I say Anna? Should I say Mangan? What should I say? One day I'll just be like, it's Tallulah here. I am Anna.

0:35No one will believe it. Delilah, former long-term podcast fans will know who Delilah is. Anna's, I don't know. Inner being. My second voice. We all have one of those. Now then, you know, we've been resisting talking about Christmas on the podcast, but we cannot hide away from the fact that I think it is around 11 weeks to Christmas this week.

1:07I mean, I kind of say that because it's my birthday first. I'm like, birthday, Halloween, then we can deal with Christmas. But I think this is a really good time, isn't it, to maybe get the calendar out. And we've been talking in the last few weeks about, you know, just thinking about what is it you'd like to feel by the end of this year? How would you like to feel on Christmas Day? Maybe the end of this year? And whether you're a Slimming World member or not, maybe you're just a weight loss curiosa. Curiouser? Not sure that's the word.

1:38The word you've made up there. Yeah. Maybe this is something that you're dipping your toe in. Then I think the guests that we have today will certainly help inspire you. And if you have a journal and a pen nearby, there's going to be, I think, a few things that may come up that could be lightbulb moments that you might want to jot down. Some prompts, some things to think about, about what are we doing here? Why are we actually on this journey? And what is it that we really, really want?

2:11So let me introduce our guest.

Training the slimming world team

2:13Deborah Sanderson is Director of Training and Development at Slimming World. Well, Deborah, how have I not met you before? I know Anna and you go way back, but how are you? I'm very well, thank you. Yeah, and Anna and I do go back a long way. And Claire, I don't know. I don't know. I've clearly been hiding away from you. It wasn't intentional, I promise, though. So, Deborah, can you kind of give us an idea? So, Director of Training and Development, who are you training? Who are you developing? Give us a little insight into what it is that you do.

2:45Oh, right. Well, the main people that we are training are our consultants. So, the people running our groups, they're sort of our number one priority. And I work with a team of excellent training managers who are always out and about training our consultants. But also, we have the managers who look after our consultants. We train them and we train all levels of management for the field. But also, we've got training going on for all of our head office staff as well, just to

3:19and development there, just to make sure that everybody's feeling as confident in their role and equipped, but particularly our consultants from the point of view of making sure that they feel they're in a good position to offer that real quality of service that we hope is going to run through to every member in our group so that they can achieve their weight loss dreams. So, yeah, that's it, really. She makes it sound so simple. It's like the most well-oiled machine.

3:51And I remember when I trained to be a consultant all those years ago, my fear was, oh, my God, how am I going to know this all? But the training team imparts so much knowledge in such a practical, beautiful way that you come away from those first few days of training like, oh, I actually know what I'm doing. It is a really empowering, I've been on many training, part of many parts of training all over different businesses. And this is one that I think really empowers you to utilise your own skills, much like food optimising does. The training team allow you to use your own knowledge and what you've learned and then

4:21take into your own group. So, yeah, I can highly recommend Slimming World Training Academy. Yeah. And you know what? That's really reassuring for members to hear as well.

The power of making a decision

4:31Shall we move on to this subject around the power of deciding? Yeah. Deborah, are you able to just give us a bit more information about where this topic or this focal point came around? How it came about? It was actually, we were actually running a group at head office at the time and I was running the group and we had this situation. It was quite early on in the days of the days of the group and we had this situation where one of the members had lost half a stone in their first week.

5:03And so obviously everybody wanted to know what had they done? What had they done differently in that week? And it was really interesting because as I think so many people do, they sort of underplayed it a bit. And what he said, it was a chap, what he said was, I've gone back to planning. That's what I've done. I've gone back to planning. So I've planned this week. And so there was a number of people in the group who said, yeah, yeah, that's what I need to do. I need to plan.

5:34I need to plan. And I was like, that's all brilliant. I said, but what we need to do is take it back a step because we underestimate the power when we say planning. I said, because what you're actually saying is, you made a decision that this week you wanted to lose weight, like properly lose weight. And in making that decision, you had decided you were going to food optimise 100% and therefore

6:06needed a plan to do it. And it was that that was a bit of the moment in the room because it was that whole thing of, like I say, I think we can throw around the words, plan, plan. It's a bit like, you know, sometimes if your member's been struggling and you say, what are you going to do differently this week? And they go, I'm just going to plan. I'm going to plan. Well, I'm not being funny. You could plan to have 100 swips a day if you want. It ain't going to help you lose weight. When you're planning, it's that whole thing of, but plan to do what?

6:39To what end? And it's that thing of, actually, no, what I'm doing is I've made a decision that ultimately the most important thing to me this week is actually my weight loss journey. And therefore, I need to create a plan to make it happen. So that's kind of how it came about. You say it's so chilled, but it's so powerful because when you think about it and you strip it back, that word plan, we do just band it around. But actually, does the plan actually mean that the end goal is going to be achieved? And a lot of the time it doesn't.

7:09It's just a phrase that we use almost maybe to appease ourselves, to say, actually, we're doing it. But actually, if you haven't decided on A, what you want to lose and B, how you're going to do it, the plan doesn't really work, does it? Because you could have a plan to do anything. Completely. And I think that's part of it is, like I say, I think we can say a plan. But as you rightly say, Anna, if I haven't got an actual goal in mind or an objective, then the plan isn't really real. And the power, so this is this whole thing about, you know, making a decision, because

7:39we have so many things in our lives on a daily basis that we've got to make a decision about. And you almost get decision fatigue, don't you? It's a bit like, oh. Whereas if you can, at the beginning of your week, make the actual decision, this week, I am going to food optimise 100% or whatever it is, that decision's made. I don't need to keep going back to it each day. The decision's made. But what I need to then do, as we've just said, is create the plan that will support

8:11that and help me overcome those areas where I might sabotage myself. But it's almost like I'm already on my own side by having made the decision. Because sometimes, because we're a bit will I, won't I around things, we've actually become our own worst enemy, really, in a way, because we're making it harder for ourselves. Is it fear of failure? Is it that for some of us who've set a goal before and then missed it or we've put the

8:45weight back on, that then that fear creeps in, that little voice or Delilah creeps in and says, nah, come on. And so by not making that decision, we're almost protecting ourself but not being as bold. I mean, I don't, I'm riffing around that. I'm kind of asking for a friend. I think, yeah.

9:12I think it absolutely can be. I think fear of any sort is one of the biggest drivers that are slimmers is our own biggest self-sabotage. Because, because it's that, like you say, fear of failure, fear of trying something, just trying something new can stop us massively. But I think it's that whole unpicking because if, like you say, I've tried in the past or I feel I've tried in the past, I've set myself a goal and I feel like I've gone for it and

9:48it's not happened, I think we just need to be far, far more curious about ourselves and fascinated rather than it being like, oh, well, there you go. That was rubbish. See, I can't do it. Which is what we tend to do. We need to be a bit more, oh, right. Okay. So, so what was it then that stopped me? What was it that got in my way? To try and unpick it because very often some, well, yeah, very often if we set ourselves

10:19a goal and we don't achieve it, it could be because we didn't potentially put the plan in to make it happen or we don't believe it can happen or something did get in our way and it's almost like we then decide, oh, it's got in my way, I won't try again. But the only way we'll find a way around it is by trying again and getting help from others and getting advice and thinking, well, when this happens, what can I, what, what could I do differently?

10:49And I really do believe, I've always sort of said, I don't think any member or any person should have to set a mini target if they really, really don't want to. Um, but what I would say to that is if you're losing weight beautifully and you're not setting many targets, well, then it's not getting in your way, not setting them. But there are many people out there who are not losing weight and not setting a mini target

11:23and they'll say, well, I don't like to set a mini target because I feel like it sets me up to fail or I won't achieve it. But if it's not working, what you're doing now anyway, which is not setting one, you might as well give it a go. Even if it's for a week, it's like, what have you got to lose other than potentially losing weight? It's like, I think we, we, and we all do this. God, I've done this so many times. We get, we get in our comfort zone. And even though what we're doing isn't working,

11:58we don't want to step out of it because it's comfortable and we know it, but it isn't giving us what we want. So it is that whole thing of sometimes we've just got to be brave and give it a go because to be quite honest, what we're doing now isn't working. So there's no point keeping doing it. All right. Well, we can keep doing it, but we can't be surprised when we don't get a different result. That's the bottom line. We've got to appreciate that. But, but if we want a different result, if we want something to change, then ultimately

12:28we have to change what we're doing. We can only ever change what we're doing. We can't change what's going on around us. And that's the thing we've got the power off of. So, but yeah, fear is huge. It stops us in all walks of our life, not just on setting a mini target. I mean, but very often the biggest rewards come from the whole being brave. Yeah. Just thinking back, there was some research that Summer World published about 10 years ago

13:01now. I can't believe it's that long, but it looked into over 24,000 members and it found that those who aimed highest lost nearly twice as much as those who played it safe. I mean, that is, that's massive, isn't it? And on average, people lost 24 pounds more on average because they were aiming high. I mean, that, that really says quite a lot. That 24,000 members, that's a,

13:31that's a substantial sample size that, isn't it? It's huge. And it is massive. But, but when you think about it, it does make sense. It, it, it, it's not really that shocking really when you think about it, because when, if, if you've got a goal, a want, a desire, a dream, whatever you want to call it, that really does mean something to you and you've sort of got it in your mind, it does make

14:05logical sense that you are in a way almost making the path to achieve it easier because you know where you're going. And, and when you're focusing on that, it's almost like as the barriers or stoppers or things that come along the way, getting the way, they don't become the, the be all and end all. They're not the thing that actually properly stops you long-term because you're that determined that you want to get to that end point that you think, right, well, I've got to find a way around this

14:39thing or over it or through it or blow it up, don't I? Whereas if you don't have that real dream, goal, desire, well, here you don't really know where you're going. So your plans aren't going to be as strong, but, but more importantly, when you do come across a barrier or a hurdle, you're far more likely to get scuppered by it because that becomes your focus, that barrier and hurdle rather than where you're wanting to get to. So it's not, I think it's quite, when you think about it, it makes sense.

15:15Do you just blew my little mind then? Because it makes so much sense. Like actually when you're not got a bigger goal to reach for that, that obstacle, that hurdle becomes what you hone in on. And then that becomes the stopper, doesn't it? You see it week in and week out in group, people who have set four, five, six, seven stone goals, they go with the little blips in a much more kind of smoother way, I want to say, because it's actually part of the journey. Whereas where I used to get fixated is one bad week. Well, I've written my future. I can't possibly go. And the moment you let go of that baggage, it is so easy to almost back up because our subconscious goes, well, you failed

15:49last time and you failed this. You have to think about it in a different way. And I think that's why group and the online community is so important because they're there to help you with those behaviour changes, aren't they? And mindset changes. Because you can't do that thinking on your own, can you? And we know, don't we, that being part of a community trying to lose weight, we're going to be more effective. And I think seeing other people achieve their goals through what they go through is also really empowering. Have you seen that in when you train consultants and when we, you know, talk to members? Have you seen that that's an important part?

16:23Completely, Anna. Because I think it's that whole thing of you bounce ideas off each other. And although absolutely everybody's individual journey is individual to them, there are so many things that happen that are similar versions. And we hit them at different points on our journeys. And so there's nothing more reassuring than being with people who, A, you know, understand and aren't going to judge you. But B, you know, I've probably been there and have had experiences. And very often, there'll be several people who've had similar experiences,

16:58but overcome them in different ways. It's almost like you end up with a bit of a pick and mix of, oh, I'm not keen on that one, but oh, God, I could do that. That resonates with what I'm hearing. I think the other big thing that's important to the community that you're talking about there, Anna, is this whole thing of the bottom line is motivation and commitment to lose weight does come and go for all of us. It just does. And when you're with other people

17:34and your motivation and commitment's dipping, they can help keep you going. Because I always think that that's the thing for me that I always think is so sad, because I know we've got members who, if they just kept going another week, they'd have got over it, they'd have got over that hump. But they didn't think they would, or they didn't realise. Or to your point,

18:05Claire, about fear, they thought, oh, that's typical. That's me. I've got up to six weeks. And I've had me, you know, this is what always happens. I always gain weight. And they write themselves off. And they give up. Yeah. And it's the giving up for themselves. But it's the fear. It's the thing. Whereas if we could keep on going, no, this is normal. This is dead, dead normal, that you're maybe not as motivated as you were. That's fine. Let's help you find your mojo again, your motivation, your commitment. Let's get you going again. And that's where the

Reading and answering a listener email

18:34power of the group helps. Well, let's stay with that thought, actually. That idea around motivation. Just thinking about that, Debra, because it comes to my mind, an email that we had in our inbox fairly recently, from someone who pretty much wrote, I need help. And I've lost all motivation. Let me just find their email. They didn't want us to use their name, which is totally understandable. Respect that. Here's what they said. I've lost all motivation. I'm constantly sabotaging myself.

19:11And yet, I really, really want to get to my target. Why do I do this? I'm back to where I was. I'm such an idiot, is what they write. What else here? My consultant is amazing. She's also a very dear friend now. And she goes above and beyond for me and all of her members. But I feel like I'm constantly letting her and myself down. I'm eating rubbish when I shouldn't. I'm doing it alone. I really despise myself afterwards. And I'm feeling useless. Any tips would be amazing.

19:49Yeah, that's a really tough email for them to write. But I mean, as I read that, I could hear, I've been in that position many times, as I'm sure that many of our listeners have as well. Yeah. And I guess, I mean, God, I think the first thing I want to say is whoever this person is, and you're not alone. Whoever you are, there are other people who will be resonating with what Claire's just read out. Oh, my love, the pain. I'm hearing such pain coming from you. And you're not an

20:24idiot. My God, you're not an idiot. You are not a failure. And you're not paying to the group, or you're a consultant. You are so not any of those things. You're just a normal human being. Well, the thing is that while ever you are being so horrible to yourself, and you don't deserve it, you do not deserve the way you're talking to yourself. But the trouble is, while ever you're doing that, and you're making yourself feel so horrible, horrible, you will be eating rubbish,

20:55because that's what we do. Because when we feel rubbish about ourselves, we tend to do rubbish stuff. And for slimmers like us, that tends to be going for food that isn't the greatest, drink that isn't the greatest, you know, for our weight loss journey. But I just want you to know you're normal. You're so normal. And you are not a lost soul, my love, at all. Because you're only ever one decision, one choice, one meal, whatever, away from a new one. And I think it really, really

21:31shows that you haven't given up on yourself, actually, because you're wanting help. And you're wanting to reach out. And I think that's brilliant. Definitely, definitely, the first thing is start giving yourself some slack. Start giving yourself some credit and say, do you know what, I'm all right, actually, I might not be where I thought I was going to be. And actually, hey, I've put some weight back on. Do you know what, okay, I'm going to forgive myself. It's not a crime. It is not a crime what you've done. You've just put a bit of weight back on. And even if it's a lot

22:05of weight, it's still not a crime. Okay. But I think it's thinking, right, rather than looking back and beating yourself up about it, think, right, what do I really want? What do I really want from now? And start to try and focus on that. Start moving forward, because you can. And a step at a time. But you are so not a failure at all, because you're still going. You're still going. You're asking for help. You're still going. I think you're brilliant. So...

22:36You know what you were saying, Debra, I think Claire and I have both had to face this. And I know so many other people. Forgiveness was a huge one. But then acceptance that it happened. Do you know, I've gained the weight. I accept that. But actually, how I used it, and Claire's used it, is to empower me. I have learned how I used to behave. So therefore, I'm forewarned. I know what my mindset can be. So actually, now I'm going into this with knowledge that maybe I didn't have before. And actually, you're not starting from the beginning. You're starting from a

23:07different point. But it's that. The only way I was able to go away and lose my weight again was by saying, it's okay. Like you said, you've not done anything wrong. Because until you forgive yourself and you accept it's happened, you'll always beat yourself up that it did happen. But actually, you know, you're human. When you learn to drive, I mean, we won't talk about me learning to drive. Nearly crashed into a bush, took the driving instructor out. But I didn't beat myself up for months and months over that, like I did about my weight gain. So it's freeing yourself from that burden of guilt, isn't it? Completely. Completely. And like you say, it's such an

23:38important point, that whole element. You never actually go back to the beginning. I appreciate you might go back to the beginning with your weight. But you don't go back to the beginning with regards to your experience. You've learned so much. And because you've learned so much about you. And even in, like you say, if you do put your weight back on, that is such learning gold there. Why has this happened? As in what decisions? What was, are there particular trigger foods that I've not, I've got to grips with yet? You know, are there particular situations

24:13that actually, this time round, I'm more prepared, I can be more prepared for because I realise that can scupper me. And the bottom line is, it's not a race anyway. It's like, it's cold life. What can I learn from what I've done before? And how can that help me ensure that this journey maybe does get me further along and where I want to be? But we're always learning, aren't we? All the time.

Shifting from fear to curiosity

24:39Just thinking about that, actually, something that I learnt last week, I was in some training of my own, actually. And it was really around understanding our response to fear and anxiety and ways that we can really work around that. And what I didn't realise, there was some research on a couple of years ago, in a fancy paper called the frontiers in human neuroscience sounds very posh and serious, doesn't it? What I didn't know, right, is when you think about all the different

25:10parts of the brain, and they all have different responsibilities from memory, creativity, focus, concentration, fear, you know, is mostly held in the amygdala. It's like a tiny testicle in your brain, just to paint you a picture. But there's another part of your brain, and I can't tell you what the full name of it is, but it's ACC. Now, when something happens that is, that leads, maybe it's a bit uncertain, or it's changed, or we're not sure, we're like, what is that? There's two ways this can go, right? This, this same bit of the brain, it

25:44can either go to, what is that? As in like, oh my god, I'm scared, anxiety, or it can go, oh, what's that? And so the same part of the brain has two different reactions. One is towards anxiety, and one is towards curiosity. And in this training, it was showing how if we approach things that we're afraid of with curiosity, instead of fear, we can start to reprogram our brains. And there was a simple phrase that this, this chap, Dr. David Hamilton used, and it was using the phrase,

26:19I wonder if, I wonder, and I wonder became, you know, almost like just that, that kind of phrase that got us to a different place. And I was thinking about this in terms of my weight loss, you know, and one of the things I was thinking around, you mentioned about different choices. I wrote down some different phrases of key fears that I've definitely had to face. So one was, I've ruined today, so I might as well just start again on Monday. I switched that, I put, I wonder what one different choice could look like right now. Another one, I've tried this before,

26:56and it never sticks, just doesn't work for me. After hopelessness of past attempts, I switched it and I put, I wonder what's different this time around. And another one, I don't have the willpower for this. And you mentioned about willpower, it comes and it goes. Instead, I switched the opposite to be, I wonder what's actually going on here, if it's not willpower, and that leading to let's be a detective, let's be curious. I mean, we also had an email, I should shout out Lara from Loughborough. And this may help our other email

27:30as well. Lara had a really good idea that, that switch that you were talking about, that change, that mindset shift. Lara said, I've just re-listened to I'm on Fire. It's an episode we did in August last year. It reminded me of an idea I had a while ago about something I call sparks, which are basically the opposite of a trigger, where triggers can derail my best intentions. Sparks are what put things back on track. For me, this would have been creating a plan, messaging my group

28:02buddy for accountability, or making sure I have non-trigger treats in the house and having a good breakfast or going for a walk. And so it was like that, that choice that you, you talk to decide to think about things from a different point of view, be that mentally, or actually those physical behaviours that we do.

28:27I think Deborah said to me last week, something that stuck in my head, I don't even know if you remember saying this, but you said planning ahead stops that indecision in the moment. And I think for so many of us as slimmers, we, and this is where the sparks comes in, we get so caught up in the moment. We haven't given ourselves the energy beforehand to think about going out for a meal, going for a drink, what the stress does, and understanding that we have that power to make a different choice, don't we? So actually, is something that we could be doing in the run-up

29:00to Christmas with all these events and all those things going on, is making some time to plan in advance? Because you said that was something that, you know, could really help you lose weight long-term, couldn't it? Making a different thought process about what's happening in your life.

Planning ahead for holiday hurdles

29:13Definitely, because I think particularly, as you say, at this time of year, as we're running towards, I can't believe it's 11 weeks, that's scary, isn't it? Towards Christmas is, it can be such a dangerous time of year for your weight loss, because if we're not careful, we could decide, I'm probably not going to lose any more weight. You could literally decide that now, because there's so many events coming up. There's Halloween, there's bonfire night, I mean, we're not even in Christmas, but Halloween, bonfire night, we know the mince pies are already in supermarkets, as are all the chocolates, but it's all there, it's all there. Whereas, if it's a case

29:49of, well, no, actually, no, no, no, no, no, no, I absolutely can and still want to lose weight, and that's my goal. And therefore, what I'm going to plan to do is make these decisions around these events or whatever they are, take the if, what if, the whole indecision out of it. Because the thing is, it's a bit like, you know, let's say you are going to a bonfire party at the beginning of November. You know, if you know that there's certain food going to be served, that actually,

30:25if you choose to have it, will take you massively over your swips, and will mean that you're not going to lose weight that week. If you know that, have a word with yourself before you even get there and decide, what am I going to do about that? What do I want to do? So, am I going to make a decision that maybe I'm going to eat before I go? Is it that there is going to be jack of potatoes there, or other low, you know, free foods and low sweet foods, or whatever it is, but rather than just rocking up and then having to, the pressure of the decision once you're there, because you're

31:00far more likely to, in essence, give in to temptation, if you want to call it that, than if you've made a proper decision and commitment. It's a commitment to yourself. It's a commitment to your weight loss journey. If you've done that thinking through beforehand, you're far more likely to stick to it. Empower yourself. Yeah, completely. And it allows you to feel like you're in more control of the situation, because you've made those decisions beforehand. And

31:32you're the only person who can control that. You are the only person who can. You can't control what's going on around you. You can't control necessarily what the food you're going to be offered. But you can control whether you say yes or no to it. And you're far more likely to make the best decision if you've thought it through beforehand. And thought how brilliant and almost imagine how brilliant you're going to feel when you say, no, thank you. I've already eaten. Yeah. Or whatever. All that wonder. I mean, I know when I first stopped drinking, Christmas time was actually

32:05quite a hard one for me to navigate. And when I was on a mission to lose four stone, I was like, I need to make some different choices to get me this four stone loss. And one of the things that really helped me, I think, was just to put a pause on drinking. And in the end, I never went back. But I remember thinking to myself, well, I've been out to Christmas parties and I've got a little bit too tipsy and I didn't get the weight loss that I wanted. And then I felt terrible the next day. So I kind of know what that feels like. But I wonder

32:35if I don't do that, I wonder what that feels like. Do you know what I mean? So you'll never know until you try, I think. I agree completely. And that goes back to your point earlier, Claire, when you were saying about the fear bit, to the point of you'll never know until you try. So very often, we just stick with what we know, even when it doesn't work, because it's comfy. And again, that's human nature. That's not, it doesn't make us bad people. It's just normal, completely

33:07normal. But it's that whole, it's like, it's that, oh, oh, what's on the other side? You know, it's like, you know, if you go, I wonder what is on the other side of the wall? Oh my God, look at that. But if you don't climb over and have a look, you'll never know. Yeah. I mean, I think there's so many things here, isn't there, that we could, oh, that I think people, people may have been jotting down journals that, that in their journals, that idea of like wondering of what could that look like for me? Yeah. And what is it

33:39that I need to decide? What are the decisions that I need to make to actually get to my target way? Or if you're already at target to stay there, what are the decisions you need to make to, to stay there? So lots of things to kind of think about and dig into for the rest of October, I think.

The power of yet

34:00Just one thing that really came to my mind when you were talking about the whole I wonder, because I really love that. I love that as a, as a, as a thing. One of the things that I always remember is, you know, we talk about the script and we write, we have this script about ourselves and these beliefs and these things. One of the words I love, and it's a very small word, but it's the word yet. And I always think that can completely change your mindset around something. So it's that whole, you know, when we tell ourselves we

34:31can't do something, if you just put the word yet on the end of it, it just, it's like, aha, I've not put full stop on the possibility. It's like, okay, I can't do it yet. It's a completely different statement. And it's one word and it changes it. I love that. Yeah. I like that. Well, this year isn't over. Yet.

35:00Right. We better, we better round things up because I think we're going to blow people's minds. But I think what's really important, as you're saying, is about that package that, you know, Slimming World has that support to help people find what that wondering is, what that curiosity, what those habits, what those changes might be. That is the power of the group meetings and also the online events that allow people just that, you know, to help uncover what is happening beneath the surface. What are the questions that you maybe need

35:32to sit with for a few days? That's the difference maker. That losing weight without that support is possible, but it's definitely a lot harder. And this is the stuff that really can be the difference maker. Well, Deborah, I mean, I don't know how to, I kind of feel like, what have you got to do yet for the rest of your year? What, have you, can you like, give us any kind of secrets of what's happening behind the scenes? I mean, I feel like you're in the know.

36:03No, I'd have to kill you, Claire. Sorry.

36:06Should I say to kill me? Yeah. I'd have to kill him, I told you. I'm so sorry. And I like you, I don't want to do that.

36:14That means there's something exciting in the pipeline. That's what I'm taking it as. Right. Well, we're rolling the credits and we're going to try and get the secret gossip. But thank you, Deborah. We really appreciate having you on. That sounds like it's having me. It's been lovely. Thank you. All right. We'll be back next week with a members episode. So if you are a member, make sure you check in on the app to listen to that one. And yeah, have a great week. Goodbye from me. And bye for now.

36:48Bye for now.