Here is why Sarah did not make the podcast

Introducing Sarah and the Crocodile Agency

0:00Welcome to the show.

0:30Well, welcome to Psychology Takeaway. Kim, how are you doing today? I'm fine, Ralph. How are you? I'm good, and today... Let me set this up, okay, Ralph? Okay, you do it. All right. Now, remember last week, Ralph, we were expecting Sarah? Mm-hmm. And Sarah didn't show up? Right. We got a note, right? We got the note from... From a big guy in a black suit. With an official seal on the letter.

1:00Yeah, and apparently it was the CIA. Okay. Okay. Well, we looked at the letter. We broke the seal, and we went inside, and we took a look, and yeah, Sarah wasn't going to be here. She had to be someplace in New York City doing the work of the agency that she works for, the Crocodile Investigation Agency, right? Okay. So it was not the central, it was the crocodile. The crocodile, yes. Apparently, that's where she works. Okay.

1:30And, you know, so anyhow, today she's here. Hi, Sarah. Hey, good to be here. And this is not really Sarah. You will recognize Andrea Asaf, who's been on the program several times, but she has consented to play the role of Sarah. I'll do the best I can. Oh, I'm sure you will. Well, and I'm going to kind of fade out for a while and let you and Ralph talk to each other about your particular problem.

2:01Now, we've kind of alluded to the problem before, but are you going to set it up then, Ralph? You're going to set up the problem? I can try that. So let's have a little chat here.

Examining a seventy hour work week

2:16Now, I understand, Sarah, that you are working a 70-hour work week. Yes. Well, as you can imagine, it's a demanding job in collecting intelligence on crocodiles. Well, the thing is, don't you have people who could help you with that? I do have staff, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can do what I can do, and the job must be done. Okay, let me ask you a simple question then.

2:51Are your staff good people? Well, I wouldn't have hired them if I didn't believe that they were. And are they well-trained? I've trained them myself. Okay. Okay, so could you give some of your 70-hour work week to them and go to perhaps a more normal 40-hour work week? Well, in theory, I suppose I could do that, but when I get the call, I have to respond.

3:26I mean, crocodiles are my life. Well, how's that working for you, Sarah? I'm a little tired. A little tired? Yes. Only a little? Well, to be honest, since we're among friends, I'm exhausted. Okay. So, you know, when I hear that, that somebody is exhausted and they have a good staff, a well-trained staff, and I say, well, could you pass on some of the work to them?

3:57And the person like you says, well, no, I can't really do that. When I get the call, I have to go. I mean, I understand when you get the call, you have to go. But should you be trying to give some of your responsibilities to other people? Well, I guess, Ralph, I have to find a way to do that in a practical sense, because as you can imagine, crocodiles are kind of a crisis situation.

4:28When I get the call, I know what to do. I have the most training, and so my instinct is just to show up and do it right away and not take the time to delegate. But, okay. Now, let's back up a little tiny bit. As I understand it, last Friday, you were already here in Mount Pleasant. You were ready to do the podcast. That's right. And you got the call from the CIA brass.

4:59I think Mr. T, I think, was one of the people that was really involved. And so you got on the company jet and flew back to New York City. Yep. Within the hour. Okay. So that's dedication, Sarah. Well, must be dealt with. That's what I do. Okay. Let's see what Ralph has to say about helping you. Because do you see this as a problem? Well, I mean, I guess I hired the staff for a reason to minimize my work week.

5:32And so that we don't all have to jump on a jet and mess up our plans. I guess what I need to do is find a way to delegate so that people are in different places and the one who is closest to the situation could respond so I don't necessarily have to fly there. That would make more sense. And then they'd be able to reach the crocodiles faster than me. Uh-huh. Okay, Ralph, go to it.

Delegation strategies and staff training

5:58Well, that sounds like a really very practical long-term solution. Now, you've got the idea of the long-term delegation. Why did you not immediately, when you got the call to fly to New York, call one of your subordinates and say, you're in Philadelphia. Go to New York and look at the crocodile situation.

6:29You know, I think I didn't think about it before I got the call. Maybe if I had a plan in place, then I could have just opted for that plan A, plan B, plan C. But, you know, I know that I have staff in different places, but I just didn't think of it. I just got the call and I responded intuitively. Okay, so let me ask you, who's your most trusted subordinate?

7:01I like the guy in Philadelphia and the guy in D.C. has more experience. So I could have called on one of those two staff members. Okay, so let me say to you then, do you think it might be a good thing to take some of your 70-hour work week and sit down and make a kind of a call tree where you have, I call so-and-so and he or she calls these two people and they call two people and so on, so that you've got a

7:38descending delegation authority. Yeah, I see what you're saying. I did hire staff. I trained staff, but I didn't create a protocol visual for myself that I could just pull up when I get the call and say, okay, who's closest? I'll delegate that person. Okay. And I like to be in control, but then again, I could tell my staff members to update me every hour or whenever they can.

8:08Okay. Now, I'm seeing two different things here. We want to point this out to our viewers and to our listeners. Sarah has a problem, and right now, Ralph is trying to solve Sarah's problem. Sarah has already solved her problem. She's already articulated what she could do. Now, the question is going to be, how do you really get that into the system? And she's actually talked a little bit about that. But what you want to avoid, and Ralph is a great example of somebody who's not avoiding

8:45this at the present time, you want to avoid giving your friend your solution, because your solution works for you, right, Ralph? It does. Yeah. It's kind of like the scenario that we had a couple of weeks ago. You know, your friend comes to you and they're broke. Well, you solve their problem by showing them how to budget. Remember that one? I remember that one. And they don't know how to budget. And so they learned how to budget, but then they still said to me, yeah, but to get through

9:15the week, I need a hundred bucks. Yeah. And go see Jim. Yeah. You know, we were at our favorite coffee shop this morning. We talked to two people, the manager and the assistant manager. The assistant manager said, yeah, she gives advice, and sometimes people take it. You know, and the manager said, yeah, if somebody comes to me with a problem, I just tell them, get over it.

9:43Suck it up, buttercup. But in this case, you know, we've got alligators, oops, crocodiles in the sewers of New York City. We've got to do something about it. Well, actually, we have no crocodiles. We do have alligators. Yeah. And, you know, while you're here, Sarah, maybe you could take a look at the sewage system here at Central Michigan University. Yeah. Who knows what's in there? Yeah. I think we have zombies in our sewers. But that would be the- That's really not my department. That would be the ZIA, right? Yeah. Okay.

10:14Delegate that to someone else. Okay. So we've gotten to the point now of you coming up with an idea. I guess the next stage would be, you know, Ralph, help her come up with, you know, the actual action plan. Because as we've heard, hey, you get the call, you know, the instinct is just to go and do it, right? Yeah. Just go and solve the problem. Right.

10:44Get it over with. Yeah. You're the best person, you know, to solve that particular problem. Right. So we're going to have to work out a solution for that, I think, right? Right. So I might say to you, well, Sarah, it sounds to me like you have a good idea for how to delegate and ways to have your staff be much more active and gaining.

11:15Being experienced so that you have a bunch of not only good people, but experienced people. So how are you going to put this into action? So tell me about the steps that you think you should do. Well, I think this conversation made me realize I need that visual of the tree that you talked about so that I can pull it up and I don't even have to brainstorm who's where. I can see in real time where all my staff are located, who's closest to the crisis situation,

11:50who I should call upon. But also you gave me another idea that it's not enough to just keep tabs on them every hour whenever they can report back. I think I need to bring these assistants with me on the training missions so that I can even share the work that I do. If I were to go out and handle that call in New York City, I would take my assistant with me and we would share the work of the job. So I'm a little less exhausted after each job.

12:22Okay, so now let me ask you, which assistant would you take, the one in Philadelphia or the one in Washington? Good point. I guess it depends on who needs the most training. I could either choose that or whoever is closest and available, or I could rotate my time with each assistant to make sure if something happens to me, each one of them has received personal one-on-one training in a crisis situation.

12:53Okay, that sounds like an excellent idea. Now, I'm going to kind of back you into a corner here and say, what's your very first step to implement this plan? Hmm, make the visual. Okay. When do you start doing that?

13:21Hmm, I guess tomorrow morning in the office when I don't have a call to deal with. And you don't have a podcast that you have to be on, right? That's right. Or on my jet on the way home after this podcast. Uh-huh, so a little bit closer to, you know, the actual real time right now. Yeah, I think strike the iron while it's hot, right after we've talked about it. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. Okay.

13:44Why would you do this? So I know my help that's out there. So I don't have to think about it when the situation comes up. I've already got a plan in place. And so I guess, you know, I'm just thinking of it as I'm saying it. So I can make my staff feel valuable and that I am in contact with them and that I have a plan for them. Okay. Because what if I'm sick? I mean, it could happen. Yeah. Somebody's got to fill in. Especially... Walking around in the sewers of...

14:14Yeah. Yeah. The germs I'm exposed to down there. I mean, what if, God forbid, a crocodile takes my leg out? And the other thing is you're already exhausted. That leads to... Yes. ...sicknesses and flus and stuff like that. Could get germs, yeah. Yeah. So... Well, let me ask you the big question. Mm-hmm. Do you trust your people? I do from the interviews, but they need to be tested in real life, and I have to be there

14:46with them, I think, on some case situations. Why don't you let them do their job that, you know, that you hired them for and you not show up and not hold their hand? I see. Let them sink or swim. Jim, what if they fail? They fail. Then I get blamed for hiring them. Ah, okay. So... So... That's the motivation, is it? Well, not only that, but... You're protecting your... Yeah. Yeah. I'm protecting my reputation as the best crocodile hunter, and then also, you know, their lives

15:20are my responsibility. If they don't know what they're doing, they could get hurt. But remember, they're crocodile investigators. You know, if they see a crocodile, they will bring in the Crocodile Extermination Agency. True. That is another agency. Yeah. So you... I'm going to challenge you here, Sarah. Yeah. I think you're afraid to delegate. I think you're afraid to let it go. Hmm. Well, I'm just thinking about, you know, the bottom line is that this situation has to be

15:53solved. And if I'm the best person to do it, I really should be there. But the thing is, when you think of it in that way, what you're really doing is catastrophizing. You're thinking everything will go wrong. Mm-hmm. And assuming, as you say, you've hired the best people available, probably nothing will go wrong. So it's not all or nothing thinking.

16:23It's just... You think I should take the risk and let my staff do their work? Yeah. That... What do you think about that, Sarah? It's a scary idea, but as you say, I might not always be there. So they've got to have the experience that I've already acquired. Okay. Well, at this point, I want to thank Ralph and Andrea. Ralph is being Ralph and Andrea is being Sarah. And I think we've got Sarah saying, yeah, okay, I'm going to delegate and I'm going to

16:54trust and I'm going to have a plan. Is that what I heard? I think so. I think Sarah's got a plan that she's going to put into action right away on her jet. Okay. And hopefully, next time Sarah comes to the studio, she's not working 70 hours a week and she's not drained physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Writing books and signing off

17:15So, Ralph, are you going to... You've come up with this plan for the last four weeks now of helping your friends solve problems. Right. Did you tell me that you're going to write this up into a book? I'm going to definitely write it up into a book. And when are you going to start doing that, Ralph? Tonight. Oh, what's happening this afternoon? Napping. Napping. He's got to process the ideas, you know? Okay. Ideas come in sleep.

17:46But the... That's true. The other thing, then, that I'm going to write a book on helping your friends to solve their problems. But, Andrea, are you writing any books? Yes. It seems like I'm always writing a book. First of all, the book of life. Okay. Yes. So, every day I have... The book of life? Yes. The book of life. Yes. Well, I've been writing this for a long time, as you can imagine. It's your life, right? It's my life. And the way that I'm writing this book is through a substack that I write every day.

18:22And it's called Calendar Class. And it's a chronicle of time stewardship. It's how I want to steward my time, what I want to study every day, and also experiences that not necessarily I want to have and then record the experiences that I set out to have, but experiences like this that happen to me, and I want to notice it and capture that moment and then record it in a daily book, my book of life. But I'm also writing some other things.

18:52So, I work on commission by HarperCollins in the UK, and I've created eight books for them so far. I've been on this podcast talking about the Stoicism book that I put together, and I have a couple of commissions in the works. And the next one, I don't know if I'm supposed to announce this or not, because the contract hasn't been signed, but the hope is that it will be a book of quotes by our first U.S. American-born pope, Pope Leo,

19:26365 quotes of Pope Leo. Well, the fact that you're getting paid to write is kudos to you. We write, and we don't get paid. We do podcasts, and, well, we do get coffee. Yeah, free coffee, and it's a labor of love. So, until we meet again, Andrea, I think we're going to push button B here.

19:55And this has been Andrea, Jim, and Ralph, and we've been looking at the problems of Sarah. We've solved Sarah's problem, we hope. Sarah solved her problem herself. Very good, Ralph. Yep. As long as we've got crocodiles and New York sewers, she's going to have a job, right? Yep. Well, until next time, Ralph. This is Ralph and Jim. Saying. And Andrea saying. Keep your stick on the ice,

20:26because we're all in this together.