886: Developing Stem Cell and Extracellular Vesicle Therapies to Treat Stroke and Traumatic Brain Injury - Dr. Franklin West

Introduction of Dr. Franklin West

0:00Hi everyone, I'm thrilled to have you here for episode 886 of People Behind the Science. Today, I'm excited to be revisiting my conversation with our guest, Dr. Franklin West. Listeners, Franklin and his team are developing and testing stem cell therapies to treat stroke and traumatic brain injury. Specifically, they use induced pluripotent stem cells, which are cells that can be reprogrammed to develop into any kind of cell in the body. And in our conversation, Franklin shared some wonderful stories about his life,

0:31his career, and his research. So sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode of People Behind the Science. Every day, discoveries are made that will change our understanding of the world around us. Dr. Marie McNeely is here to bring you the brilliant minds who are making these discoveries so they can share their incredible stories and take you on an amazing journey. Welcome to People Behind the Science.

1:04Hello, everyone, and welcome to People Behind the Science. Today, I am delighted to be speaking with our guest scientist, Dr. Franklin West. So, Franklin, welcome to our show today. How are you? I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for inviting me, Marie. Well, thank you for taking the time to speak with me and our listeners today. We are looking forward to learning more about you and the wonderful work that you do. So I'm going to start by telling our listeners a little bit more about your background and how you got to your current position. So listeners, Franklin is an associate professor in the Regenerative Biosciences Center at the

1:36University of Georgia. He received his Bachelor of Science degree in biology from Morehouse College and was awarded his PhD in stem cell biology from the University of Georgia. Franklin then worked as an assistant research scientist at the University of Georgia for a few years before joining the faculty there in 2010. And Franklin received the University of Georgia College of Agricultural and Environmental Sciences Young Alumni Award in 2019. And he very recently received the University of Georgia Alumni Award 40 under 40 distinction. He was also named an emerging scholar in 2012 by

2:07Diverse Magazine and among the top 40 under 40 Georgia's best and brightest by Georgia Trends Magazine. And in our interview today, Franklin, we're excited to learn more about you and your

Gardening and family travels

2:16research. But let's first start by talking about your life outside the lab. So how do you like to spend your time when you're not doing science? Well, I really enjoy traveling. I think a number of people out there do. Last year, we went to England and we also went to France. So me and my family went to London and we went to Westminster Abbey and we also went to Stonehenge, Tower Bridge, a number of really exciting places. And then we moved to France and we went to Paris and we saw the Palace of Versailles

2:48and several other locations. So we really like traveling. And so we do a fair bit of it. Oh, that's awesome. So how have you been coping then with maybe some of the restrictions on travel due to COVID-19 lately? So we actually had a trip planned this summer to go to Seoul, South Korea, and we had to cancel that. So it's been tough. And then we've also had a number of trips to Florida, whether it's for scientific meetings or other events. And with Florida turning into the new epicenter of COVID, we decided to make a change there. So we're definitely being responsible.

3:20And so we're trying not to go too many places. Gotcha. Have you taken up sourdough or any other hobbies in the meantime? So I was a gardener and I kind of stopped for a little while, just life got too busy and I've picked back up gardening. So the rose bushes are looking quite well. Oh, that's fantastic. I love it. Well, Franklin, it's great to hear about some of your passions

Developing stem cell therapies

3:40outside of science, but I'd love to talk about your work as well. So how do you describe your research to people who aren't familiar with your specific field in your work? Well, my group is really interested in developing cell therapies for the treatment of stroke and traumatic brain injury. So we do a number of different things in the lab. So we work with a newer type of stem cell called induced pluripotent stem cells. And it's a pretty exciting technology. In fact, Shinya Yamanaka, who developed the technology, won the Nobel Prize for

4:11more recently. So it's a technology where we can actually take a skin cell, reprogram it and turn it back into a state where it acts like an embryonic stem cell. So it's capable of turning into any cell type in the body. So as part of that, we do a lot of testing to develop a stem cell therapy for stroke and traumatic brain injury. And the reason we selected stroke and traumatic brain injury is stroke is the number one cause of long-term disability in the United States and the fourth or fifth leading cause of death in the U.S. So it affects a large population. And there's only two

4:45therapies out there that are FDA approved, and it's not very effective. And so we've been making a number of strides. And so we've developed a large animal stroke model. We're actually able to transplant our stem cell therapies and test to look for safety and efficacy. The other large portion is working on a stem cell therapy for a traumatic brain injury. And so traumatic brain injury, in fact, it's kind of like our lab is split into two different groups. So the stroke affects older individuals, so normally 60 and above. But surprisingly, traumatic brain injury, when most people don't know this, one of the

5:19largest groups are children. So anyone that has a child probably has an inkling of why. My daughter's eight years old at this point, and she doesn't know the meaning of fear. So she's on the gymnastics team and jumps off the balance beam in the bars regularly. So we are very excited about our pediatric model for traumatic brain injury. And we're also studying stem cell therapies as well in that. Oh, this is so cool. Well, Franklin, I cannot wait to dig into the details of your research as we go through our interview today. But I'd love to touch on motivation here right at the beginning,

5:51because I think me and our listeners can use a boost. We can use some inspiration and motivation. So do you have a favorite quote that really resonates with you or maybe a force that just keeps you motivated? Frankly, the things that keep me motivated is the severity of these conditions and really the number of people that are in effect. So traumatic brain injury is a huge issue with the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. It was also popularized with the NFL concussions with Aaron Hernandez and a couple of others suffering CTE. So the people that suffer from traumatic brain injury

6:26or stroke are severely disabled. And the profound effect that it has on the individuals themselves and their life partners, it's gut-wrenching. I mean, when you think how this has changed their lives and their children's lives. So if that's not enough to motivate anyone to get out of bed, there's probably something wrong with you. So that's what gets me out of the bed. I love it. Well, Franklin, it sounds like you've got some fascinating work going on there in the lab, and it's a great motivating force in your life. And I'd love to talk about some of the people who might have motivated or inspired you over the years. I know as a scientist, you get to work with

6:58so many remarkable people. So are there some that really rise to the top in your mind as mentors or role models or just maybe historical figures that you looked up to?

Early mentors in science

7:07So mentor-wise, my first real science mentor was Lawrence Bloomer at Morehouse College. I started in his laboratory as a freshman, and we were doing something really different than what I do now. And so I really was excited about ecology. So growing up, I was definitely interested in large animals. And my family, we moved around a lot. So we lived in Italy and Japan. And so I was exposed to a lot of different environments. And so I was very excited about ecology. And so we're studying mate choice and milkweed bugs, which is very different than traumatic brain injury and stroke.

7:40But there, he kind of introduced me to hands-on research and a lot of the scientific methods. And then he connected me with a number of different organizations to have exciting summer programs. And so I worked with Gene Altman at Princeton and ultimately went to Kenya, where we did a study looking at yellow baboons and a glucocorticoid level. So looking at stress in these animals. And so throughout the years, he helped me develop these relationships and connected me with these exciting internships. So really got my excitement for research going. So originally, I was really

8:17interested in veterinary medicine. So working with him and through all those connections, it really inspired me to go down the research track. And that was actually probably for the best because ultimately, I've developed allergies. So I'm actually allergic to cats, dogs, birds, horses, cows. Oh, no. So being a veterinarian probably would have been a mistake. It would have been bad. Yeah. He was probably my first mentor. And even to this day, we communicate regularly. I got an email from two weeks ago. And then the other major individual that has influenced me as a scientist is Steve

8:48Stice at the University of Georgia. So he was my PhD mentor. And Steve's lab is a really exciting and fascinating place to work. So I joined his group of being very excited about cloning. So Steve is a super scientist. He started off in cloning. Then he progressed into stem cells. And now he's doing something called extracellular vesicles. And he's like myself is very interested in developing therapies to help people with neurocognitive diseases or injuries. So working with him, I learned a lot of

9:21really exciting and cool techniques. But he also inspired me in other ways. And so as a scientist, a lot of times we'll work on a project and we'll develop a potential therapy and we publish on it. And it never quite makes it out to the clinic. So to actual patients. So Steve is very excited about getting it into patients. And he does it by doing startup companies. And so he started a number of different companies over the years where he tries to take a therapeutic from the benchtop to the bedside, so to speak. So watching

9:53him do what he does has truly inspired me and the things that I do. And he's very innovative. And we have these great talks about different scientific activities. And so he's just inspiring. Oh, that's wonderful. So Franklin, I have to ask, did you ever consider dabbling in the startup world yourself? I have considered it. I think to be a person that does startup companies, you have to be made of something different. It's a high risk, high intensity endeavor. And I'm very interested in startup companies, but we actually decided to go a real estate route instead of biotech. So we're doing

10:27something different. But the biotech universe is something special. Oh, that's cool. Well, it's been great to hear about some of these mentors and role models. And you mentioned that you had this early interest in ecology. What are some of your earliest memories, Franklin, of maybe first getting interested and

Childhood and military family moves

10:41excited about science? My first interest in science probably started when I was a young child. My father was in the military. And so we traveled. So every three years, we would pick up and move to a new country. So we've lived in Italy, Japan, we've lived all over the United States and in multiple places in Georgia. So I remember as a young child, Kim helping me build my first net. So we would go out, and we would collect bugs. And we did the same thing that others do, I guess. We had a collection

11:12of bugs where 50 different types of crickets and grasshoppers and butterflies and things like that. And it started off with just doing something with my father and then ultimately turned into a genuine interest in biology. Oh, that's awesome. And you touched on how some of these mentors along the way helped you get to where you are today. What were some of these key steps or maybe key experiences that you had that really cemented that path for you and helped you get to your current position? Growing up, as I said, it started off with bug collecting with my father. And that was really exciting. And as a military family, we move a lot. So one of the things that was a constant were

11:49pets, dogs, cats, birds. So from a friend's perspective, as a small child, they become your first friends, right? So you become really connected. And so that's what fueled the dream to become a veterinarian. Then after that, I went to a health science and engineering school called Augustus R. Johnson in Augusta, Georgia. And there, it kind of fueled it further. And so during the school day, we were allowed to go and shadow at vet clinics or other hospitals and other places as well. So I shadowed multiple veterinarians. And then during the school year after school, I also worked for

12:24two different veterinarians and during the summer. And so that, of course, further fueled that. And then I got accepted into Morehouse College. And there's a couple of different programs that really pushed doing science research. And so I was a Mark Eustar scholar. I also did the NSF-REU program. David and Lucille had a program there as well. So I was a Packard scholar. And it was all about promoting research. And so again, my mentor was Lawrence Bloomer. But through these programs, I got to go to Kenya to study the yellow baboons. But I also got to go to, there's a laboratory

12:58sponsored by Cornell. So it's called Shoals Marine Laboratory. And so I was there and got to study intertidal snails. So through those opportunities, I became truly engaged and excited about science. And so all of those just coalesced into what it is today. And then at the end, I actually started working or was interested in working in the Steve Stice's lab because he had a company that was actually interested in cloning endangered animal species. So that's where the break from ecology kind of went to more of the biomedical research side of things. And so

13:32I came to the University of Georgia interested in doing cloning of endangered species. But as I was here, I also became interested in the stem cell biology and things of that nature. Because I think as a scientist, most of us are probably interested in a variety of different things, not just one thing. Definitely. So I can't imagine as an undergraduate traveling to Kenya to do field research on baboons, what was that experience like for you?

Field research with baboons in Kenya

13:56So this was part of an REU experience that I did with Jean Altman at Princeton. And it was really exciting. So it started off where it was during the summer, and I was working with her lab. And so she was studying the effects of drought and hierarchy and other stressors on yellow baboons. And so I basically spent my summer looking at fecal samples and steroid hormones in the fecal samples, trying to understand the effects of some of these environmental conditions on stress. And then she approached

14:27me and was like, well, Frank, you did a good job this summer. We'd love to have you come out to Kenya. So ultimately, I spent only a couple of weeks, about two to three weeks in Kenya, in a national park. And it's a transformative experience. So we would wake up every day, and we would follow a troop of yellow baboons around. And so we'd get there before light. So the troop of baboons normally sleep in trees. And so we'd get there before they even came down, they would come down the tree, and then we would follow them all day. And so it's almost like living at the zoo. So you're looking around, and there's literally giraffes, gazelles, rhinoceros,

15:01and other wildlife around you. So it's an amazing experience. And then we also were integrated with a group of Maasai. So that was exciting to learn more about their people, their culture and beliefs. And so it was definitely an eye-opening experience from a scientific and a personal growth. Well, it sounds like you've had some phenomenal opportunities over the years. And those research experiences are, I think, so important for shaping the scientists that you become. So then what ultimately prompted you to continue your research there at the University of Georgia?

Breakthroughs in animal models

15:33Well, as part of my PhD program, we made some really exciting breakthroughs. One, we developed a culture system where we could turn stem cells into early germ cells, so sperm and eggs from a human source. And the reason that's so important is you're able to study the causes of diseases like Kleinfelders, Fragile X, Turner syndrome. So a number of these different syndromes occur due to an error in gametogenesis. So we developed an in vitro system where we could

16:04add different environmental compounds and see how they affect the development of those cells. So that was an amazing adventure for me and my mentor. And just really being able to understand the cell signaling events and the other components of that process was really exciting. Then the other thing that we also did is we did a project where we were interested in developing stem cells from pigs. At face value, that doesn't sound very exciting, but the reason for it is if you can develop a pig stem cell, you can create transgenic animals more efficiently. And that's been

16:38a huge hurdle in the transgenic field. And the reason you'd want to do that is if you could create transgenic animals that are a better model for things like cystic fibrosis or other conditions, that would be exciting. The other major reason that you'd be excited to have a transgenic animal model is you could potentially create animals that are optimized for something called xenotransplantation. So every year, thousands of people are on transplant lists waiting for a heart, a kidney, a liver,

17:09and unfortunately, they never get that heart, kidney, or liver and they die. So what we could do is we could potentially take a pig heart and transplant it into those patients while they're waiting for a human heart. So it's akin to maybe a heart valve transplant or something of that nature. Well, the problem is if you transplant a whole heart into a human patient, that heart is rapidly rejected within minutes. What has to happen is we need to be able to remove different cell surface

17:39markers or add in different cell surface markers that help the heart be identified as a self or at least not as an exogenous agent. So that's what we're trying to do. There's a number of groups out there that have estimated that we need to change upwards of 100 genes. And so to be able to do that efficiently, it would be really great if we could have a stem cell, we can knock in or out using CRISPR-Cas9 systems or other systems and be able to modify those cells. Then we could transplant those cells into developing blastocyst embryo. And then you would ultimately end up with chimeras and then

18:13breed those together. And then you can end up with an animal that is completely derived from our transplanted cells. And so in that way, we can make transgenic animals for xenotransplantation or other conditions. The other thing that people are interested about is maybe creating animals that can produce different agents in their milk, different therapeutics in their milk. So at one point, groups like the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation were really excited about maybe being able to have a cow, for example, that produces anti-malarial drugs in their milk. So you could take this animal

18:45into economically impoverished regions. And instead of having someone come out and vaccinate them or give them a pill, you could actually give them a cow. And the whole village could use this one cow, collect milk from it, drink the milk, and they would be vaccinated or be resistant to conditions like malaria. There's a lot of opportunities. And so based on those two projects, those are probably the two things that excited me the most as a PhD student. So from there, ultimately, I was asked to maybe stay on and advance some of these technologies. And so that's kind of where I got my start at.

19:19Oh, that's so cool. And now you are a faculty member there at the University of Georgia, working on even more cool projects. So Franklin, do you have a favorite that you are working on right now and are just so excited about? So there's two projects that we're really excited about. I've already mentioned that our group works in developing cell therapies for stroke. And so one project is we're looking at induced pluripotent stem cells, derived neural stem cells. So that's a mouthful. These are neural stem cells that can be derived from the patient's own body. So

19:50we're able to transplant these stem cells into a stroke model. And we're able to look to see if they turn into neurons and astrocytes and olivodendrocytes and integrate into the brain tissue. And that's really important. So that's called cell replacement therapy. And the reason that's important is because there's a number of therapeutics that have been developed for stroke, and they only limit the stroke injury. They don't actually replace or regenerate the damage and lost tissue. Here, what we've done is we can transplant these cells and they can differentiate

20:22or turn into neurons, astrocytes and olivodendrocytes. So they can replace the lost tissue. The other thing that they do that's really exciting is they actually release a number of different factors into the environment. So they can release factors that promote angiogenesis. So revascularization of the tissue. They also communicate with the endogenous neural stem cells that are found in the brain and promote neuroplasticity. And so we've done a recent study and published an exciting paper where we've shown that we can transplant these cells in a pig model

20:53of stroke. And it actually leads to improved metabolism of the brain. So the tissue that is remaining after stroke actually functions better. It improves cerebral blood flow in the injured tissue, which is huge because after you have a stroke, the blood flow is cut off and therefore that tissue is ischemic. So there's no blood or limited blood supply. And so by reperfusing or enhancing reperfusion of that tissue, you can improve recovery. And then ultimately those animals showed improved functional recovery. So they had better reflexes and motor skills and things of that nature.

21:26And so that was one of our big recent breakthroughs. The other thing that we're also working on is something called extracellular vesicles. And we're doing that with Aruna Biomedical and my mentor, Steve Stice, who started this company up. So we're interested in developing these extracellular vesicle therapeutics for stroke again. And we found some outstanding results. So I mentioned earlier that there's only two FDA approved therapies out there. So there's been hundreds and hundreds of clinical trials that have unfortunately failed. So very few things work. When we tested these extracellular

22:01vesicles and found the results that we did, it was truly transformative. And so with the neural stem cells, you can transplant them. The only disadvantage is what we call a transcranial procedure. So we have to drill a small hole and inject the neural stem cells. The problem is after you've had a stroke, you don't really want an extra hole drilled into your skull, frankly speaking. So if you're a severe stroke patient, of course, maybe this is another option. But if you're anything besides a severe stroke patient, you probably would like something less invasive. So the cool thing is

22:34these extracellular vesicles, you can inject them IV. And what happens is they carry a number of regenerative proteins and microRNAs, and they actually seem to preferentially migrate to the site of injury. So they go to the brain and they release these regenerative and neuroprotective proteins. And what we have found in our pig models of stroke is that it reduces intracranial hemorrhage. It also decreases the loss of tissue and improves something called white matter integrity. So your

23:06brain is made up of gray matter and white matter. So it actually improves white matter integrity. And so it was actually a big breakthrough. And more recently, we've been looking at these animals that have these massive strokes. And we looked at something called a midline shift. And so when you have a stroke, your brain begins to swell. So it shifts the midline of the brain because of the swelling. And what's known is once you reach a certain level of shift, it's typically catastrophic. A larger shift leads to major disabilities. And then once you get to three millimeters or more, it leads to death.

23:40So what we have shown though, using this model system and these extracellular vesicles, even though you have a major shift, these animals seem to do much better after having the EB treatment. And so it's neuroprotective as well. And so it's pretty exciting stuff. I would say those are probably the two most exciting things that are going on in our lab right now.

Coping with failure in research

24:00Well, Franklin, these projects are so cool. And as a neuroscientist and brain enthusiast, I suppose myself, we could talk all day about this, but I'd love to talk about the challenges. We've touched on some of the exciting moments in your lab, the exciting successes you've had with these specific projects. But I know things don't always work out in science. And unfortunately, there are failures, challenges, struggles along the way. And I think it's important to get those messages out as well. So what is an example of one of your own failures or challenges that you had to work through? I would say most scientists are probably type A people. They probably have worked

24:36really hard and have been fairly successful to make it to this point because it's a highly competitive field. So you've got great SAT scores, great GRE scores. You've done really great in classes, A student all the way through perhaps. So you're really used to success. I suspect for most people, and I see this with my students as well as myself, at least in the beginning, being able to cope with failure, honestly, is probably the hardest thing that most of us face. Because in fact, you're going to fail most of the time. So we run numerous experiments and the vast majority of them do not work. So for

25:12graduate students, and again, initially myself, having the number of failures is kind of surprising. It's a new concept. And so when my students come in, I always say, we're going to fail a lot. And that's okay. And then we're going to keep working on it. And basically, you have to learn how to deal with that. I think that's honestly the biggest challenge. Definitely. So in terms, I know for scientists specifically, that transition in graduate school can be difficult, particularly like you mentioned, if you're not used to failure. For you, what was

25:42that like? And how did you maybe come to accept failure as part of science? I think it's just exposure. I mean, after a while, you failed enough, you talk to your friends, you discuss it, and we're all in it together as graduate students, right? And even as young faculty. And we talk to each other, and we support each other and try to help troubleshoot and things of that nature. So I really think having a good support system is probably the most important thing as a graduate student or as a young or even an older faculty member. Having people that you can

26:12talk to about failures and problems. And some of the things that our department, I'm sure other departments around the country do, is we put together mentoring committees for younger faculty members. And these committees, I think, are vital because a lot of times as a young faculty member, one, you don't have the answer. You don't want all the other faculty members to know that you don't have the answer. You kind of sequester yourself. And then I think everyone as a faculty member in the research arena is familiar with grant writing and the failures there. So in many cases, less than 10%

26:46of grants get funded. And so you start to question yourself. You're submitting all of these grants, and they're not getting funded. And you start to wonder, well, maybe my ideas are bad. Maybe I'm not the scientist that I thought I was. And so being able to talk to your other faculty members about failure in grant writing, maybe failure in teaching classes, experimental failures, is probably the best way to really handle that. And they can share their experiences. And I've had senior faculty members that'll lead my grants and give me great advice. So just having that network is

27:20probably the most important way of coping with failure. Definitely. And I think having that network is important to help you get through these failures, as we mentioned, but also important for celebrating the successes. So Franklin, do you have a favorite success story from your work or from your career that you'd like to share?

Celebrating lab successes

27:36Little successes are definitely important to celebrate in science. And recently, we had a project where we were developing a model for alcohol use disorder. So currently, there's a rodent model out there to study alcohol use disorder, but rodents have a faster metabolism than humans. So it's difficult to study intoxication in rodent systems. So we're working with an alcohol use disorder expert to develop a pig model of AUDs, what I'm going to call it here, and binge drinking. So initially, it was really hard.

28:10And I had a graduate student that was struggling to get them to consume alcohol. And then ultimately, we discovered that basically, we were maybe working with animals that were a little too young to drink alcohol. They basically the taste aversion. So they weren't really enthusiastic. However, if you wait a month, we've discovered that pigs are extremely excited to drink alcohol. So we spent probably a year, three pilot studies and could not get them to consume alcohol. And all of a sudden, we decided to go with a cohort of animals that were slightly older,

28:44and they drank significant amounts of alcohol. In fact, they were so enthusiastic that we had to make sure to cut back a little bit on the speed of alcohol drinking, or they would become too intoxicated and wouldn't drink again. So they would literally have a hangover. So when it comes to small successes, I remember the day that that happened, the student was so excited. They came to me. And when anyone gets a publication or a grant or just something works in the lab that we've been struggling on, we normally go out for lunch or ice cream or just walk around the lab.

29:17And anyone that's not in a hood, we normally go out for ice cream or lunch. So I definitely, with science, if you don't celebrate the small successes, you become quickly discouraged. And so it's really important to push forward. And right now, and I think one of the things that we're really having a hard time with, we're working on a project where we're trying to GFP label, so green fluorescent protein label, some of our neural stem cells. And so we transplant these neural stem cells, and it's really hard to find them in the brain. It's a needle in a haystack situation. And the problem with neural stem cells is they are really good at silencing

29:51exogenous genes. And so we actually have a project with a graduate student, Sydney Snead, and she's been using a CRISPR-Cas9 system to label these cells. And they just keep silencing. We've tried increasing the amount of virus with the GFP in it, in the system, and we've done a number of different things. And we still can't get it to work. But I would say that's probably our bigger challenges of late, even though it seems like a small thing. It's one of those things where I talked to the student and she's like, Frank, I don't understand why it's not working. It works for

30:22all the other cell lines we've tested. And of course, it's the one cell line that we actually need to work that doesn't work. Of course, of course. Well, you'll have to reward her with a double scoop once she gets that project working. That's right. Well, I'm so glad to hear that you take the time to kind of get your group together and celebrate these successes, because I think it is so important. And we touched on some of the amazing work you're doing in the lab. I'd love to talk a little bit more about what you're reading. I think as a scientist, you are constantly immersed in the literature, trying to learn more about your field and adjacent fields as well. So I love encouraging our listeners to take

30:55a step back from the scientific literature, the journal articles and do a little bit of reading for fun. So do you have a favorite book, whether it's related to science or not, that you can recommend for me and our listeners today?

Reading favorites and global collaborations

31:05I don't have a favorite book, but I have a favorite series. And it's not that this series needs any more light, but I love the Game of Thrones Song of Ice and Fire. I literally read all the books at least once. And then I got them on tape because I'm one of those people that's always multitasking. So I try to go to the gym regularly. And my reward for going to the gym is to be able to listen to R.R. Martin's books on tape while exercising. So it's my incentive program. I've listened to them each at least six times at this point.

31:38That is phenomenal. We will put this on our reading list for our listeners there if they're looking for inspiration and ideas for the next book they should pick up. And we touched on some of the opportunities you've had to travel all over the world for some of the research you've done over the years. So Franklin, I'm curious if you had to pick just one, what is your favorite place that your science has taken you? I would say there's two places, obviously Kenya, where I was doing my REU program at the wildlife, the phenomenal environment. I mean, it's an amazing experience. The other place that I really enjoy

32:12I went to India to do a workshop with some of my friends at the National Dairy Research Institute there. And I like going to places that are really different than America. So I love America. It's great. But sometimes it's one of those things where if I go to Europe, I mean, they have just as many McDonald's as we have, right? So you want to experience something really different, something really new. So when I was in India, we went to, it's a city called Karnal. And it was an amazing city. The people, the language, the food, it was really different. And so it was transformative in that

32:49way. And so we went to the Taj Mahal, of course, and I did a lot of tours of different facilities there. And India has had an economic boom in the last few years. And so it was amazing to interact with their students because they were getting lots of new and exciting equipment. And you could see that their students were so excited about science. And they were coming to me and they would talk about different papers that recently came out in the field. And it was amazing because they knew the papers. They were like, well, in figure three, they ran this gel. And they're telling me about it.

33:23And at the time, it was a major paper. But frankly, I don't always remember figure three from every paper that I read. Right, right. And so they were talking about it. And they were just so excited about what we were doing. So that was really good. And I really believe in outreach. So being able to teach a workshop in India was amazing as well, because I was teaching them how to grow induced pluripotent stem cells. So being able to interact with them and talk about the media and the cell culture conditions, and just being able to share that kind of information with people that truly were excited about

33:57receiving it was exciting. I mean, even here in the US, people are excited about it as well. It was just a different type of experience. So I enjoyed it. Oh, definitely. Well, both of these travel opportunities are absolutely amazing. And I think during travel and just kind of during your everyday life as a scientist, you get to make these connections with so many people from all over the world, which I think is another phenomenal part of the career that people may not really think about when they're considering careers in science. So to go against some of the stereotypes that people might have there in the world, we try to show some of these human moments in science by touching on some of the fun traditions

34:30that you experience in different laboratories, the different personalities that scientists have, and just the funny things that happen when you get a big group of scientists together. So do you have a story of your own, Franklin, that really showcases this human side of science? Well, I've mentioned earlier that our group does a lot of outside activities. And so we do what we call the West Lab Day of Fun. So the last time we had a West Lab Day of Fun, we went kayaking. So we try to do a lot of things where we get together and build camaraderie. And so

35:01a lot of the work that we do is extremely tough, right? So it's a lot of late nights. We do a lot of preclinical models where animals are sick. And so there's a lot of late nights and weekends and things of that nature. And so it can be really tough. And so we try to do a lot of team building activities. When Will Smith's concussion movie came out, we went and saw it all together because we're traumatic brain injury group, right? And so we did that. When bodies came to Atlanta, the exhibit bodies, we went and saw that as well. So we do a lot of things where we do things together to build

35:35that. And I think, honestly, you make a lot of lifelong friendships that way. I have students that have graduated and live in California, and I hear from them regularly. And I actually work with one of my students. She works at a small biotech company, and we actually collaborate together. And so we always say that once you're part of the West Lab, you're a West Lab member for life. So it really builds that close bond. Oh, that is phenomenal. I like that you call it the West Lab Day of Fun. It sounds like you've got some fantastic activities that you've done together with your lab. And I think building that camaraderie and

36:09maybe encouraging that creative thinking and taking people outside the lab to get a fresh perspective can be really helpful when you're trying to tackle some of these really tough problems in science. And we touched on some of the challenges that you faced, Franklin. But if we took away those challenges, those barriers, we gave you all the funding, staff, technology, feasibility, time, whatever you needed. What is the one question you would want to tackle first? So we've had some of these major breakthroughs currently. And really, for us, what we would like to do is probably move them faster. That would be the real answer. So some of the things that

36:42we're doing with the stem cells and the extracellular vesicles, if we were able to have more people, more space, that sort of thing, we would basically be able to do more testing of these potential therapeutics to try to get them to the clinic faster. So I think that's probably the first thing we would do or the biggest thing we would do. Definitely. Well, I know I for sure look forward to continuing to follow your research. And I'm sure my listeners do as well as you make this progress towards moving these therapies to the clinic.

Advice on hard work and persistence

37:10And you've shared so much with us today, Franklin, I'd love to end with advice. So is there one particular piece of advice that you received at some point in your life or your career that you can pay forward and share with our listeners today? One of the things that I think is really important in being raised by a military man, the value of hard work cannot be understated. There's a lot of good ideas out there. But really, I think it's the hard work and the dedication that really makes things happen. Thomas Edison said that it's 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. And I think that really applies

37:45to science. And so to be able to achieve anything in this field, it's really about working hard, putting in those extra hours, late nights, weekends. It's a work of passion. Definitely. Well, I think that persistence, I think that motivation, I think that perseverance is so important in science. And I think you've shared a lot of insights and inspiration with me and our listeners today. So if they want to learn more about you and the wonderful work that you do, what is the best way for them to do so? Well, if they want to learn more about what I do, you can check out our website for the

38:16Regenerative Bioscience Center. It's rbc.uga.edu. Perfect. Well, listeners, definitely check out that website, learn more about the amazing work going on in Franklin's lab. And Franklin, thank you so much for spending time with us today. Thank you. This was excellent. It was a pleasure to chat with you and listeners. Great to have you here as well. We'll see you next time on another episode of People Behind the Science.