880: Working to Preserve and Restore Populations of Bees and Other Pollinators - Dr. Lauren Ponisio

Welcome and introducing Dr. Lauren Panicio

0:00Welcome to People Behind the Science, episode 880. I'm your host, Dr. Marie McNeely, and this week I'm pleased to be resharing our interview with our guest, Dr. Lauren Panicio. Listeners, Lauren's research aims to help preserve and restore bee populations in agricultural areas and other natural habitats. She's interested in understanding the distribution and health of different populations of native bees. And in our conversation, Lauren shares some excellent stories about her life and science. So I hope you're ready to meet another one of our remarkable people behind the science.

0:37Every day discoveries are made that will change our understanding of the world around us. Dr. Marie McNeely is here to bring you the brilliant minds who are making these discoveries so they can share their incredible stories and take you on an amazing journey. Welcome to People Behind the Science.

0:59Hello, everyone, and welcome to People Behind the Science. Today, I am delighted to be speaking with our guest scientist, Dr. Lauren Panicio. So, Lauren, welcome to our show today. How are you? Doing fantastic. Wonderful. We are so excited to have you with us today, and I'm looking forward to learning more about you and your research. But let me first start by telling our listeners a little bit more about who you are and what you do. So, listeners, Lauren is an assistant professor in the Department of Biology at the University of Oregon. She received her bachelor's degree in biology with honors in ecology and

1:33evolution, as well as her master's degree in biology, both from Stanford University. Lauren was awarded her PhD from the Department of Environmental Science Policy and Management at the University of California, Berkeley. She conducted postdoctoral research there at UC Berkeley, and she served on the faculty at the University of California, Riverside, before recently accepting her current position there at the University of Oregon. Now, Lauren received graduate fellowships from the National Science Foundation and the National Institute for Food and Agriculture, as well as a postdoctoral fellowship from the Berkeley Institute for Data Science. Lauren was also named among the Global Food

2:06Initiatives 30 Under 30 and Food Systems in 2016. And in our interview today, Lauren, we're excited to learn more about you as a scientist, but also more about you as a person. So, can you start by telling us what you like to do when you're not doing science?

Gardening and early life in Fresno

2:20There is definitely a moment where I was like, whoa, my life outside of science. What is that? But I have always been into gardening, and I have a crazy fecund veggie garden right now, which is also very, like, bee-oriented. So, I have, like, all these plants that attract the bees, and I sort of keep track of all the bees that are coming to the garden. And we're about to have the most epic tomato harvest there ever has been. So, very excited about all the tomato sauce options that are in my future. Amazing. So, how'd you get into gardening?

2:50So, I grew up gardening. My mom always was part of her culture and part of her life. She's from Argentina, and we always had a small vegetable garden and grew up in Fresno. So, Fresno is very agricultural. And so, that was part of the culture of that place as well. Lots of food growing. So, I've always kept up with it. I got really into managing the student garden when I was an undergrad at Stanford. I used to be, like, in charge of the organic garden there and making sure everyone was weeding their plots and things like that. But I've also taught sustainable agriculture as a grad

3:24student and a faculty member, too. Oh, very cool. Well, Lauren, I admire people who can grow things and have a green thumb because I'm the kind of person who can't keep a succulent alive. So, you have my admiration there. It takes some work to kill a succulent, too. Yeah. Wow. I have got skills. Well, I love hearing about life outside of science. It sounds like it might be a little bit interconnected with your research as well. You mentioned you've got the bees coming into the garden, and I know that is a topic of your research. So, how do you describe what you do and get people excited about it if they're not familiar with your field or your specific research?

3:56Well, I just love bees in general. And I think that people just love them as well. I mean, they're such lovely little creatures. And what could be more fantastic than insects that just visit flowers? That's what they do for their lives. They're positively benefit the flowers. Everyone loves flowers. And they're just fuzzy and adorable. I think they're basically insect kittens. That's kind of how I think they groom themselves. And there are just so many amazing different types of bees in California. We have about 1,500 to 1,700 species of native bees in

4:28California. We're a global hotspot of bee diversity. And that's across the whole West. So, that's just an incredible part of where we live. And a lot of times, we think all the mammal diversity or whatever is in the Amazon. But here in the United States, we have this incredible bee diversity that people can see. And my life's work, my job is I want to preserve and restore these bees and their natural populations in agricultural areas, like where I grew up in Fresno, but also in places like natural areas, like in Yosemite National Park. All of our bees are in

4:59trouble, particularly in natural areas and agricultural areas. So, I want to make their populations healthy again. Oh, that's awesome. I can't wait to get into some of the detail about your research. And I will admit, I can't stop thinking about insect kittens at the moment. I'm telling you, look closely at bees. You'll see it. That is amazing. I've never heard that comparison before, but I absolutely love it. You need to hang out with more bee people. Right. It sounds like, Lauren, you are so passionate about the work that you do. So, perhaps you're not short of motivation and inspiration, but me and our listeners would

5:30love to glean some of that from you. So, do you have a favorite quote or a saying or just something in particular that keeps you motivated and inspired every day? I don't think I really have a quote or a saying, but I am really motivated by this concept of maybe of biophilia, like love for biodiversity or like love for all the living creatures in our world. And I don't know if that was cultivated when I was young or just something that I was born with, but I really enjoy the natural world around us, but also our agricultural world,

6:02our gardens, our vegetable gardens and things like that. Have you ever just like stared at a flower and thought, wow, this is just totally incredible. All this evolutionary time to make this incredible thing. And then this becomes and the amazing interactions they have and the diversity. So, maybe that's more like the diversity of species in our planet. I just find constantly fascinating and motivating. Yeah.

Finding a path to ecology at Stanford

6:23Oh, very cool. And you mentioned that gardening was something that you were exposed to growing up. Was this your first introduction to biology and science or do you have some early memories you can share of what first got you interested in this area? The closest I can come up with is that I always knew that agriculture was very important for people. And having grown up in Fresno, California, which is such a main agricultural area in California. And I also knew that agriculture could not be great for people's health and also for

6:53the biodiversity around us. So, it was more of a motivation of like wanting to make agriculture better. And then bees are such a big part of agriculture. So, it took me until college that I realized that being a scientist with a profession that people did. And it was amazing meeting researchers and Stanford. And I was like, oh, you can just be a scientist. Just because you like biology a little bit doesn't mean you have to be a doctor. Right. You can actually like just do that for a living. So, that was more my experience. Definitely. So, in undergrad, what exposed that to you as a potential career? What got you kind of

7:25thinking more seriously that this might be good for you? I really loved the environment. Always did. And I was in a freshman seminar with Paul Ehrlich, who's really well known for his work with the population bomb. And he's a very controversial scientist. Many people may have heard of him. And like a very timid, terrified freshman undergrad, really terrified of professors, kind of like meander down the hallway of the biology department with a photograph of a butterfly taken. And I was just like, hey, Professor Ehrlich, I like pollinators. Here's this picture of a pollinator. I've heard of this research thing. Can I do it with

8:00you? And he was like, no time. But here, there's this grad student, Tim. You can work with him. And he ended up being an incredible mentor. I'm still in touch and stuff like that. But I think it took that moment of getting the courage up to just ask someone for help. And it took kind of like Paul and other people in that department to sort of believe in my ability to actually learn skills. And then I was able to continue on with that. But that was the moment, like wandering down the biology hallway with a picture of a butterfly. Papylia rudalis was the name of the butterfly too. The Western Tiger 12 swallowtail. Yeah. I was going to ask, what kind?

8:33A very common butterfly. That's amazing. Well, I'm so glad you shared the story though, Lauren, because I was in the same boat where I was sort of intimidated by professors going into undergraduate. And then I found out that there are, in many cases, very approachable, kind people who are happy to tell you about their research. So I think that's something that may help listeners out there if they're nervous or worried about kind of just going in there, biting the bullet and asking the question. Asking people about their research as now as scientists, like we love talking about our research, right? Of course, that's what we're doing right now. And so if you're just like, oh, what do you work on? An hour later, you're like, oh, that's great. But yes, scientists are

9:10people and they like talking to other people and they love it when undergrads want to get involved in their work. And there's nothing more lovely than when I have like a student from one of my classes, I teach intro bio, come up and just be like, oh, I really want to hear more about bees. Take a seat. How much time do you have? Oh, that's amazing. So then what encouraged you to apply to graduate school and kind of take that next step in your work? I think somewhere mid-undergrad, I secretly changed my major from being pre-med to focusing

9:41in ecology and evolution. And I did not tell my parents. Oh, wow. Because they really wanted me to go into medicine, kind of that classic push by the parents, go into medicine. Because I just found that the classes I love, the classes I was so excited to learn the content of were all ecology classes, where there was field work and like we were out in the field collecting weird things. So I switched over and then I started trying to learn more about like, how did you get to do this for your life? What did it take? And people were like, oh, a PhD. And I was like, okay, I've heard of those.

10:12So there was a bit of just flying by the seat of my pants, kind of just, okay, well, I guess I do a PhD now. And luckily it worked out. Definitely. And back to Paul, again, that mentor, he was another person who kept motivating me throughout and being like, okay, take some math. I'll just need to learn a lot of math and statistics. I'm like, I don't know. This sounds really scary. And he was like, just do it. You'll be fine. You'll be fine. I'm like, oh, okay. And he was actually the person who put me in touch with my PhD advisor, whose name was Claire Kremen. She's this incredible mentor. She's a MacArthur Genius Grant recipient now at the

10:45University of British Columbia. So once you get into the PhD, I feel like most people come in and really don't know what they're doing, in all honesty. And the PhD is really learning, okay, so what would it be like to be a professional scientist? What would that journey be? And here's how you do it. And you have five or six years to get there. So that's, I think, when I really started understanding what being a scientist meant. Certainly. And I think the other huge transition for a lot of scientists is kind of what happens next. So you're approaching the end of your PhD. What was going through your mind and how did you decide what direction your career was going to take?

11:18I can only imagine how people are feeling now. There is a lot of uncertainty. And I loved what I did, but I was very unsure. Can I get that faculty job? They're very difficult to get. And also, a lot of things are very short term in academia. And I think by the time you get farther on in your age slash career, you're like, I'd love to just like stay in one place for a while. That was very nerve wracking. But luckily, I saw this job advertisement for an assistant professor at UC Riverside. And my mentors encouraged me to throw your hat in

11:50the ring. Can't hurt. You have a good publication record and see what happens. And I actually got that job right out of my PhD. Oh, wow. So that really helped things. And I was able to defer it in order to do my postdoc at the Berkeley Institute for Data Science. But it was a very difficult thing. And I learned a lot, even if I didn't end up as a faculty member. I learned how to critically think. I learned a lot of data science skills, for example, and programming. And okay, I could go into a different career. But I'm going to throw my hat in the ring into this academic situation and see what happens. Because

12:22I love mentoring students. I love teaching. I love studying bees. And I hope to keep that in my life. Of course, I'm still an assistant professor. So you never know. But it is a really, really difficult transition from PhD to postdoc and also from postdoc to finding that faculty job.

Moving to the University of Oregon

12:38And I understand there is a move on the horizon for you. So can you tell us then what is drawing you then to the University of Oregon? Well, they posted this position for an ecologist data scientist. That's me. And I do love bees. I also love data science. And I love training people in quantitative skills. Because I think they're skills that seem really scary a lot of time. And there's this sort of mysticism around them. There's a lot of underrepresentation of women. And there's a lot of underrepresented groups when it comes to quantitative skills. I don't know if you've heard of the quantitative skills gap.

13:12So basically, throughout our careers, as women, or basically anyone who is a no white male, we're not really encouraged to take math or statistics. A lot of times, maybe Paul was a bit of an outlier. And he was like, Oh, you must take statistics. This is how you've been a ecologist. But a lot of time, we don't get that encouragement. So by the time we get to grad school, we don't have the skills that often help you get the high impact papers or get your PhD done more independently. You're not relying on the statistician to help you with your analyses. So I just think that's a real also motivation for me as a faculty member. Like I want to be able to

13:46teach those skills to other people. And particularly as a woman who wears floral dresses and lots of weird bee regalia, like as an alternative image of what a data scientist looks like. So when they posted this position, I thought, well, I love UCR and I love where I am. But maybe this is a really exciting opportunity to get to keep that as a central role of my position. And I've got to say, there's not a lot of bee people doing stuff in the Pacific Northwest. And so it was kind of this opening there to learn more about those systems as well. So I'm very excited about the move. I'm

14:17going to miss UCR very much. There's this incredible faculty members there, but I think it's an exciting opportunity for me. Certainly. So I know you've got quite a few projects in the

Resurveying historical bee populations

14:27works at the moment. Is there one in particular, Lauren, that you are thrilled to be working on and want to tell me and our listeners more about? So I will tell you about this re-survey project we're doing in California. So there was this person named Andrew Muldenke. And in the late 1960s, he did these incredible transects across North and South and Southern California, where he went from an island system all the way up to a high elevation place. And his idea was getting the major biomes of

14:58California. And it was very in at the time to look for these certain vegetation types and see what was there. But he did something incredible. And he identified every single pollinator that visited the plants in the places he was. Oh, wow. And he did the most intensive sampling. And then he entered everything onto these Fortran cards and piled them up in his garage. It was my understanding of it. Oh, my goodness. Just thousands of thousands of thousands of these cards. And my colleague, Ruben Alakon, who must have incredible patience, spent years digitizing these Fortran cards of all of these

15:33specimens. And something we really lack, people who study insects in general, versus like mammal people or people who study birds, is we really lack historical records of what was in different places. A lot of times, for example, we have data on like fish, because we like to fish them or like ducks, because we like to hunt them or deer. But when it comes to bees, we just don't have a lot of information. And a lot of times when taxonomists go out, they're kind of searching for like the really cool bees. They're like, oh, let the young common bee toss it out of the net. So you end up with this

16:04weird thing where you over-represent rare specimens, but you don't represent the common specimens in these data that's usually in museums or something like that, entomology museums. So this data set is just this incredible opportunity to try to understand how California systems have changed through time. So we're starting a resurvey project. Fifty years later, going back to each of his sites, he made these incredible hand-drawn maps, as well as descriptions of each of these sites. And we found them, we're going there, and we're sampling the bees again. And we're going to be able to compare what was there in the 1970s versus what is there now. And every place we've

16:39been, it has a kind of a unique story of how this site has changed in 50 years. Torrey Pines in San Diego is one of the sites. And it's this beautiful California State Park right on the ocean. It's really gorgeous, like coastal kind of bluff, sage scrub habitat. And it is now completely surrounded by houses and a golf course. And good old internet now, you can actually look back and see when the houses were built. And whether they were there when Andy was there in the 70s, resampling these places. And another site is in Anza Borrego in the desert. And that's one that is on BLM land. And Andy's

17:16description is very different from what is there now, because there is a off-road vehicle park interesting. So in some ways, it complicates the study, because each of these sites is experiencing something really different. But in some ways, it's this really interesting story of how California has changed, even in just 50 years. And it's kind of amazing to think San Diego used to have like maybe a million people in the 1970s. And now it's huge. So I'm incredibly excited about that. Because one thing that worries me a lot is that since we don't have this historical

17:48data, we don't really know where we're losing our bees. So we don't really have records of where they were or what their populations were like in really detailed ways a lot of times. So I think there's this silent extinction happening of our bee species, or at least population decline, that is just going unnoticed in some ways, because we don't have that historical data. So that's, in some ways, a rather depressing situation. But if we can look at maybe groups of species that are really declining, and see if there are any traits that are related to their decline. So we could say,

18:21okay, these are very vulnerable species when it comes to land use change, like urbanization and off-road vehicle parks.

18:29And Lauren, this sounds like a huge undertaking with a lot of logistical complications. How much time do you spend at each site? And how do you decide exactly where you're going to collect within an off-road vehicle park, for example? We have Andy's descriptions, so we know where he sampled. And we want to sample all the sites that he sampled basically as exactly as we can. In some ways, it's hard to know how dedicated he was. We're like, did you just walk off this cliff? Really? Or did you just go along

18:59the road? But we try to keep everyone safe and do what we can in terms of sampling. A big part of it will be we want to sample these places for many years, like at least five years, because insects tend to be very variable in their populations. And that way we can say, we are pretty darn sure this insect is gone now. It was there in the 70s. We sampled it for five years and we never detected it. So hopefully with that repeated sampling, we'll be able to maybe deal with the fact that Andy may have been very much more dedicated than you could ever imagine. But another

19:30part of it is we may be working with a group called Adventure Citizen Scientists, and they are incredible. And with that, we could leverage actually people maybe who live closer to these places so that we don't have to thrive all over the place. That's what we're doing right now. And they would go out and sample more regularly. So that might help us with that. So it's a bit of a mix of trying to do exactly what Andy's doing, finding the vegetation and like the cross streets, all that stuff, landmarkers that we found in his surveys, and also just what we can physically handle. Sure, sure. And we are actually sampling now. We got clearance to sample through coronavirus. We're in pretty

20:04remote locations. We don't really interact with humans, just bees. Gotcha. And I think this is a fascinating project, Lauren. And I love that it incorporates sort of the story and the history behind it, which is so cool. But you hinted at some of the challenges that you're facing. And I think in science in general, there are so many different kinds of challenges along different stages of your career path. And I think these are so important to share with our listeners because they may be going through the same difficulties, the same struggles themselves. So we love highlighting some of these on our show. So when you think back, do you have a particular failure story or just a really difficult time

20:38that you've struggled through that you can tell us about and maybe give us some insight into how

Fieldwork challenges in Yosemite National Park

20:42you got through it? Maybe there would be two different ones. I think one is just fieldwork is hard a lot of times. And there's some rule that's like takes twice as long and something always breaks. And I think the most challenging fieldwork I ever did was in Yosemite National Park. And this is where we actually backpack out to the sites. And we had one week. So we pack up all of our sampling gear months before I was dehydrating all these meals to feed us for these backpacking adventures. While we were collecting bees in Yosemite, we were interested in the effects of fire on

21:14pollinators. And so we go into the backcountry where there had been natural fires and there'd be about a 12 mile hike. And we'd have these mules pack out the food for us. And one day we show up and there's this little note on our large bear canister. It basically looks like a radioactive waste container. I'm pretty sure that may have been what they're made for. And someone had very diligently opened it and eaten all of our food. Oh no. What did you do? Well, they wrote us a little note that was like, thank you for whoever left this. I really enjoyed

21:44it. Oh my goodness. I was just like, why did she think we left it here? But we did have enough snacks and things like that to keep us going. And the next day, my field assistant, Lindsay, tripped and fell over a log and sprained her ankle. Oh no. So we're like, out of food. Someone's got to carry Lindsay. Someone's got to carry Lindsay. So I like, fireman carried Lindsay. I'm very proud of the moment. She was a super trooper too. Like she really held it together. And then just kept getting layered on top of it. Then we're all kind of distracted. So we left all of our sampling gear at a site.

22:15And so we had to go back and get it. And this bear came to my campsite and ate a bunch of our hand traps we were using. So I would just say that these things, they happen to everyone. Maybe that's a part of it is that we all have these stories that are just like, and then everything went wrong and you kind of keep your cool. And this is also something I should probably be thinking more in my life, but like you have divorced yourself from the mode and just be like, okie dokie, Lindsay's got a sprained ankle. Well, we're almost out of food. But we made it out. We lived. And that bear ate some really

22:47weird things. And I either enjoyed it or really regretted eating our spray painted plastic cups. He probably had regrets. Yeah. I guess they smelled interesting. And then Lindsay hiked out on a sprained ankle. I remember this still. She'd stashed a bunch of books. And I remember telling her like, you can't bring the books with you. We're leaving the books in the backcountry. You have a sprained ankle. And she slipped them out. She was not willing to leave them behind. She wasn't willing to leave them behind. And she backpacked on a sprained ankle with all these heavy books. And I was like, oh. So that was kind of a comical, maybe fun story of just what being a

23:20field scientist is like. But I feel like that just happens all the time. And as it happens more and more, you're just like, oh, look at that. The mountain's on fire. I guess we should leave now. Nothing can surprise you. Well, we know the closest way out because we came prepared because you never know when your mountain catches on fire. Absolutely. Particularly when you're studying the effects of some of these fires, right?

23:41But I guess that's like the field science version of what it's like to be a scientist. But I think another part of it is just being a woman. And my mom's family is from Argentina. So it is often really difficult to feel that you do not belong as a professor. And you don't see the faces of people that look like you or really imagine that you can do this. You're just like, I don't know. It just seems too cutthroat or it seems too time consuming. I kind of want to be happy. And I'm not sure about this profession. And that, I think, is a harder kind of prevailing issue, particularly with

24:14this transition to a faculty member. And looking back, it just felt like everything is kind of stacked against. Just as a regular person, it's difficult to get a job in science. But like, okay, as an underrepresented group in science, it's very difficult. But there is also, I think it goes with that fieldwork, too. You just got to try. And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. And it's not about you as a scientist or how good your work is. Sometimes it's about finding the right fit for a department. And the right job might show up or it might not. But especially now, with all the uncertainty that's going on in the world that I imagine

24:47a lot of postdocs and grad students are looking at, what is a really uncertain job? Like being an assistant professor, it's a lot of work and you don't really have job security. I mean, we're all feeling that right now. Like maybe science isn't for me. Everyone's got to make that personal choice. But I feel like the moment for me when we were talking about what motivated you to go to grad school, it was just like, well, I'll give it a go. And if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And same with the faculty, well, I'll give it a try. And if this is right for me, then it'll be right for me. But if not, change directions and try something new and be a data

25:18scientist. Or there's lots of jobs that people who have backgrounds in science can go into that are maybe not quite what we imagine, but can have the same kind of job satisfaction. Definitely. And I know, Lauren, you have overcome a lot of obstacles to get where you are today. So

Securing research grants and studying bee parasites

25:34do you have a favorite story of success that you want to share with all of us, whether it was a big win or just a small victory that just really meant a lot? There are just tons of small victories in terms of projects working and stuff getting together. And the thing that came into my mind was getting my first large grant as a faculty member. I have a grant from the Foundation for Food and Agricultural Research. And it's just so validating to know that you're like, okay, well, I proposed this dream project. And here's what I want to spend X number of years of my life doing and hire all these people for and have them say like,

26:08yes, that sounds great. Go ahead. So I'm in year three of my career as a faculty member. So that was a couple of years ago. And I think that moment, I happened to be at a conference and you get a phone call. Oh, really? That's old fashioned. So old fashioned. You get this phone call and they're like, the one to talk to me around, you know, letting you know you got it. And you're just like, whoa. And it's a complete game changer because this means you suddenly are flush with all this funds. We have to hire postdocs and grad students, all these people to do this work. And I think that was a huge success. And for that to happen so early on that we can just really

26:41hit the ground running in terms of getting all this bee health work going, that's just a game changer. Definitely. I think grants can be a rollercoaster of emotions too, because it's sort of by the time you submit it, you're just like exhausted. And then you find that you get it and you're excited, but then you're also terrified because now you have to actually do it, right? You reread it and you're like, oh, that's a lot of things we proposed. So those are some good ideas. Well, congratulations on that huge success, Lauren. And it sounds like the project's going well.

27:13I think it's going fantastically. And we just had actually a group meeting right before getting on the podcast with you, where my postdoc held up this whiteboard of we're doing all of these screenings for different bee parasites. And so we look at all these different native bees and we basically rip out their guts. And then we see what parasites they have in their gut, as well as their bacterial microbiome. And she had this giant sheet. We arranged them in these plates of bees. We have 16 plates of bees. And she's made it through the complete marathon of these parasites. And soon we'll be able to understand what types of species are most

27:46vulnerable to different types of gut parasites in agricultural areas. We're working in sunflower fields and whether that is related to the habitat around them and the type of farm management practices people are using. So I'm just chomping at the bit for her to enter that data so we can analyze it and just understand what's going on there. But so far, it looks like lots of bees are sick, which is rather sad. Interesting. It'll be great to get some of the results together and hear more about this project as it comes to completion. And I know as a scientist, you spend a lot of time working,

28:18maybe thinking about science, just sort of immersed in the scientific literature. But I like to encourage our listeners out there to read for fun as well, to take a step back from the dense scientific papers there. So if they are looking for a book to read, Lauren, do you have a particular book, whether it's related to science or not, that you can recommend for all of us?

Discovering bee diversity and traveling for science

28:37Well, I love books about bees, as you can imagine. There's an incredible book called Bees in Your Backyard that has the most amazing photographs. If you want to be able to imagine those bee kittens, like of all these incredible bees, you know, it's a fluffy and all different shapes and sizes and colors. Bees in your backyard is a really great way to also start noticing all the different types of bees. A lot of times when people think of bees, they think of the European honeybee. When you conjure this image of a bee, it's like kind of gold colors. It's got some black stripes. But that bee is actually from Europe. It's the European honeybee. We introduced it to the

29:12Americas. And no other bees native to the Americas look like it because that whole genus is absent from the Americas. So a lot of times when people actually see bees in their everyday life, they don't think they're a bee. They think they're a strange ant creature or something strange because they're kind of blue or green or metallic. And it just doesn't fit with most people's image of what a bee is. In fact, probably mine too. I didn't know there were more than one bee until I started my PhD, but okay. Don't tell my PhD if I did that. And bees in your backyard, I feel like it's so cool because it's just the bees that are in our everyday lives. Like right now, I'm actually staring. I'm in

29:46my home office, of course. And I have this big sunflower plant. And there is a species native to the Americas that we call sunflower bees that are specialists on sunflower. They're also called longhorn bees because they have these gorgeous long antenna. And they're all over my sunflower plant right now. And I imagine most people would look at them and not know that they are bees. But if you have these books and you can see these images, you can start noticing like all the incredible diversity even in your backyard. Oh, that's phenomenal. Listeners, we're going to have to find some more bee pictures to help brush up on these species in our area. I love it. And we talked a little bit about some of the different

30:18places you've been for your academic training and some of the conferences and things like that. And I think as a scientist, travel is a big part of the job and many people don't necessarily realize this. So I love talking about scientific travel on our show. So Lauren, when you think back to the places you've been, the field work you've done, and maybe the conferences you've presented at, is there a particular place that really stands out as just the most memorable? I have loved going to Latin America because there are some incredible pollinator people down there.

30:48And so I've had these really amazing experiences. North America and South America have a lot of the same ecosystems, like particularly like Chile in California, but they're really similar. And so meeting with people down there and then comparing our systems and like the different bees are working on all the similarities and differences. And I recently went to Argentina to Buenos Aires, where my mom's actually from. And that was an incredible adventure because you feel very privileged as a scientist to be able to go travel to these cool places, meet with all these amazing colleagues, and then also have these connections with these different

31:19places based on where you're from and your family is from. But the other thing I do remember is once I went to a conference in Sweden, and they had us all in this really interesting room and made us stand up on the table and do weird Swedish folk songs. Interesting. As part of the conference. It's the cultural exchange piece, yeah. Yeah, we're like right by Linnaeus's tomb. And then we're having this conference about species interactions while standing on these long tables. I was like, this is interesting. So maybe one a little more profound, one a little bit more, yeah, that's strange. Scientists

31:52can be strange. I love it. So if our listeners have a chance to visit either Buenos Aires or Sweden, what do you recommend seeing there? Well, if you go to Buenos Aires, I would recommend going to the Pampas, the natural systems that are there. And they have this incredible agricultural areas, but these hilltops where you can't really do agriculture on them. And so there are these basically little islands in the sea of agriculture, where there are just amazing communities of plants and pollinators. So wherever I travel, I'm like, oh, where are the cool bees?

32:25Like, where can I go find some new bees? So that was the urban for Argentina. Unfortunately, it was a little chilly and we didn't for bees, but I did get to see Linnaeus's tomb, which was pretty cool. So you can go visit that. And he also has a garden, which is based on all the species that he's identified in alphabetical order. Oh, cool. Basically arranged from A to Z of species he named, which is pretty neat. Linnaeus, he had his moments thinking that by understanding all the name patterns of names in the world,

32:55he would understand God's message. But he also started the whole scientific naming system. So that was interesting to get to see all that. Absolutely. I think the scientific history in Europe is really cool. So being able to dig into some of the history is an awesome experience going abroad. And you touched on a couple of examples throughout our conversations of maybe scientists going against some of the stereotypes that people have. I think in your case, your specific field, maybe you don't meet necessarily the stereotype that people have about what a scientist looks like, how a scientist acts, what these visions people have when they see scientists in the media. And I think it's so

33:28important to try to break those stereotypes to make everybody feel comfortable in science. So we love talking about the human moments, the fun and funny things that scientists do, and the things that just kind of go against the mold. So Lauren, do you have a story or an example of your own that you can tell us about? Lauren Ruffin Well, we only have the one Y chromosome in our lab at the moment. We are mostly women. And Gordon, the one Y chromosome, is also a fantastic scientist. But actually, part of me loves the rarity where we wear the lab coats. I can actually embroidered some butterflies online to make it nice. And we also had a lab

34:02when we were starting to hear more about COVID and worrying about what was going to happen. We had a lab bedazzling lab coats. We put rhinestones lab coats. I also did my initials on my field vest. So we can be feminine. We can be women. We can actually have purple hair and all of these things and still be scientists. And it'd be completely reasonable to have a bedazzled lab coat. And people maybe don't see that as much in the media. But in the department I was at at UCR, in the department and University of Oregon, that's totally common. We have lots of young women

34:34scientists. They have lots of young women labs, as well as people from a lot of different backgrounds. And not that males are not welcome. And of course they are. But I think there is a not a reflection between what is actually happening in reality and what we're still seeing in maybe the media. Certainly. I kind of want a bedazzled lab coat now. I'm not going to lie. So what inspired you to get creative with the lab coats? I was just digging through some craft supplies and I found my old bedazzler. I was like, oh, this sounds like a great idea.

35:04Dust it off. Dust that off. I thought about it. I was like, hey, is this like violating any safety concerns? No, it's not going to react with anything. Okay, so why not? I love it. I think other ways to introduce fun into the lab is always welcome. And I think as scientists, you're under a lot of pressure to answer some of these big questions to always be coming up with new ideas. And I think it can help to be creative, to have these moments where you can step back and think about the big picture as well. And I think as a scientist, you're often challenged by having limitations in resources, staff, technology, time, whatever the

35:35case may be. So if we took away all of the restrictions you typically face, Lauren, and gave you anything you could dream of, what is the one question you would want to answer most? I would love to know where our bees are, where they are currently located, and how their populations are doing. And I would like to know that globally. A lot of times our research is focused in Europe, and North America, and there are incredible species all over the place. So I would like to know that globally. And then with this data in hand, I think we could finally start trying to

36:10understand how many species we're actually losing, for example, or where the real problem there is. And we know a lot of the stressors that are facing bees, pesticide use, urbanization, habitat loss, agriculture, honeybee invasion. So a first step would be understanding the global distribution of these species. And bees are, I think, really incredible because they have these intricate relationships with plants. So by understanding about bees, we also understand about plants. And these are insects. So part of understanding what's affecting them might help us understand

36:41what's affecting other insects. And the other part of bees that people often, in my brain, is that they are just so important for humans as well. They pollinate so many of our crops that are, I think, the most delicious and most nutritious, like basically all stone fruits, like peaches, as well as strawberries, raspberries, all those things. And without them, we're going to start having troubles with our food security. So also by understanding the global distribution of bees, we can also understand how we can keep those pollination services going in agricultural areas

37:12where we really need them for humans, and also in natural environments where they're needed for all the beautiful wildflowers to keep reproducing. That would be my dream. Oh, I love it. Well, thank you so much for dreaming big with us on the show today, Lauren. You've given me and our listeners some food for thought here. No pun intended, sorry. Oh, pun intended. I can never pass a bad pun. So we've talked about some different aspects of your career and some of the different stages and mentors that you've had along the way. Is there one particular mentor that you can point to as

37:43maybe a role model or someone who really had a big impact on you? I have been incredibly fortunate to have a lot of people in my life in terms of at Berkeley, Rosie Gillespie, George Roderick, and Claire Kremen. And Perry DeValpine, these are people that really helped me through my PhD. I think a lot of times we think of like one mentor, just like one guru out there that will tell us how to do everything. But I think just having a diversity of people helping me through is really important. But I think the special shout out would probably go to Carol Boggs. She was someone at Stanford. And after the shambling down the

38:17hallway and handing the picture of a butterfly to Paul Ehrlich, she was the one who really believed in me. And I really had honestly no idea what research was or how to do it or what it meant to be a scientist. I kind of was like, I know how to take care of plants. Let me know what project I need to do. And I think what was so amazing about her is she didn't assume I knew anything or had any previous skills. Which is important. Yeah. Yeah. She wasn't like assuming I came in with this incredible background from high school and national championships from science fair or something like that. And I truly had no idea

38:49what scientists did. And she just kind of took it in stride. Like, I think I was cleaning up my inbox recently of like my old, old email messages. And there's just these crazy things I used to do. And she would just be like, Oh, like, why don't we not do that? I was like, Oh, like, that's not quite how we do experimental design. Try it again. That's not how it works. Yeah. Yeah. So yes, I think without her support at that critical moment, I don't think I would have become a scientist. I think I probably would have become a doctor. And I'm sure that would have been fine. But I don't think I would have gotten to like live my dream job of getting to do

39:22conservation and restoration work and mentoring students and teaching other people how to do science like she did. So kind of a key person who sort of shifted the trajectory of my entire life. Oh, that's amazing. I think these mentors and role models that like you said, these critical stages can have such a huge impact. And they can be great sources of advice when you need help with something. So when you think back over your career, is there a particular piece of advice, Lauren, that somebody gave you that really helped that you can share with all of us today? A lot of times you run into these stumbling blocks in your projects, in your motivation,

39:56in feeling like you belong as a scientist. And we often as scientists are really perfectionists. We're like, oh, it must be right. It must be perfect. That one experiment didn't work, and therefore the world is over. And someone told me once, you just kind of forgive yourself sometimes, especially right now that a lot of us, we haven't been back in our lab since March 12th. Oh, wow. Not that you remember.

40:21We got this email from UCR that was just like, leave by Monday. And we had a lot of plans, right, of what we thought was going to happen and exactly how we thought our lives were going to go, and also our research was going to go and the pieces we thought would be done. And you know, that is not going to happen. And sometimes you just got to forgive yourself and be like, that's okay. We're doing our best. And we're trying to do the best science we can. And we're holding up that standard. But sometimes stuff doesn't work out. Yeah. Sometimes you show up and someone's eaten all of your food in the bear camp.

40:51And you just have to figure out where you can go from here. Yeah. You just have to eat cliff bars for a week. That's just the way it is. Oh, I think that is wonderful advice to share with me and our listeners. I think particularly now, like you said, when it is a tumultuous time for everybody, I think. Is there any other last piece of advice you'd like to share or a last note of inspiration that you want to leave everybody with at the end of our conversation today?

Finding perspective in nature

41:13I feel like it would be a wonderful thing, especially since a lot of us are still at home, to take a moment to see all of the diversity around us. And we're part of this incredibly complex, amazing ecosystem. All the bees are still pollinating the flowers, even though there's this global pandemic. And there's a certain comfort in that. In fact, the bees are taking over all the trails and all the natural environments where we're usually hiking and stuff because there's no one around. But I think that that is something that has been calming and to me during this really

41:44difficult time is just kind of like admiring what's around us and also just knowing that that is going to continue and there's certain kind of stability in our ecosystems that is maintained. Definitely. Well, I think that is a wonderful note to end on. I love having this idea of sort of the constant, something you can depend on and that life is still going on in some capacity because I feel like for so many of us, it seems like everything has sort of come to a screeching halt, like you said. So we appreciate that, Lauren. If our listeners are intrigued and they want to learn more about you and what you do, what is the best way for them to do so?

42:17We have a lab website. It is www.paniciolab.com. We also have a link to our Instagram feed there where we post lots of pictures of bees as well as ourselves. There may be a picture of my bedazzled lab vest on there. Oh, I can't wait to see.

42:34So I love it when people get to see pictures of bees and appreciate all their diversity. So I think you can go there for lots of that. Excellent. Well, listeners, definitely check out that website. Get in touch with Lauren if you have any questions. And Lauren, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the show today. We appreciate it. Thank you so much. And listeners, great to have you here as well. We'll see you next time on another episode of People Behind the Science. People Behind the Science People Behind the Science