863: Developing Novel Materials with Wide Applications from Medicine to Manufacturing - Dr. Tim Long

0:00Hello everyone, and thanks for joining me for episode 863 of People Behind the Science. I'm your host, Dr. Marie McNeely, and this week we are excited to reshare our interview with our guest, Dr. Tim Long. Listeners, Tim's lab works on a wide variety of research projects focused on novel macromolecular structures to tailor the properties and processing of polymers. His work has applications across many industries, including the development of chemotherapy treatments, and electroactive devices used in prosthetics and medicine. And in our interview,

0:35Tim shared wonderful stories and experiences from his life and career. So get ready to meet another one of our remarkable people behind the science. Every day, discoveries are made that will change our understanding of the world around us. Dr. Marie McNeely is here to bring you the brilliant minds who are making these discoveries so they can share their incredible stories and take you on an amazing journey. Welcome to People Behind the Science.

1:10Hello everyone, and welcome to People Behind the Science. Today, I am delighted to be joined by our guest, Dr. Tim Long. So Tim, welcome to the show today. How are you? Thanks, Marie. Doing very well. We're a week before finals week, so there's a calm before the storm. I like it. And I know the storm gets really crazy towards the end of the year, so we really appreciate you taking your time to chat with us. But before we dive into the details of our interview, Tim, let me first take a moment to give our listeners a little bit of background about you.

1:41So listeners, Tim is professor of chemistry and director of the Macromolecules Innovation Institute at Virginia Tech. He was awarded his bachelor's degree in chemistry from St. Bonaventure University and his PhD in chemistry from Virginia Tech. Prior to joining the faculty there at Virginia Tech, Tim worked as an advanced research scientist and subsequently a senior research scientist at Eastman Kodak Company. He also worked as an advanced technical program researcher supported by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and a principal research chemist with Eastman Chemical

2:12Company. Tim has received numerous awards and honors over the course of his career, including the Virginia Outstanding Scientist of the Year Award, the Robert L. Patrick Fellowship Award, the American Chemical Society Poly Mark Scholar Award, the Carl Dahlquist Award from the Pressure Sensitive Tape Council, the American Chemical Society Polymeric Materials Science and Engineering Cooperative Research Award, the Virginia Tech Alumni Award for Research Excellence, the Colonial Innovation Award, the Interdisciplinary Research Team Fellowship Award, the Faculty Research Award from the Virginia

2:44Tech Department of Chemistry, the IBM Faculty Award, and also the 3M Company Faculty Award. In addition, Tim has been named a Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, a Fellow of the American Chemical Society, and a Fellow of the American Chemical Society Polymer Division. And in our interview today, Tim, we are excited to learn more about you as a scientist, but also more about you as a person. So can you start by telling us what you like to do when you're not doing science? Well, that's a great question, because I'm usually thinking about science even when I'm mowing the

3:16lawn. But to kind of get away from science, usually it's something outside. As a scientist, you spend a lot of time in your office in front of a computer in the laboratory at a conference. So getting outside is usually what I do. Enjoying nature, being with my family, going on a hike. I live in southwest Virginia, so there's beautiful mountains and lots of opportunity for mountain biking and hiking and nature. So I think for me, it's kind of doing the opposite of what I normally do, and that's getting outside and enjoying being out with the trees and forests and hiking.

3:47Certainly. So do you have a lot of winter activities that you like to do outside too? Generally, I'm a summer type of person. Gotcha. But in the wintertime, we have a great golden retriever, a nice big dog, and she likes to go for a run. So walking with her out in the snow is always a fun thing to do. Well, that sounds fantastic. And it's been great to hear a little bit about your life outside of the lab. But I'd love to talk about your work next. Your research spans a wide variety of different kinds of projects. So, Tim, how do you describe your work to people who might not be in your field or familiar with what you do?

4:17Well, usually when I think of myself and my research, and you're right, to a certain extent, it's like going into a candy store for me. And so I like a little bit of everything in the candy store. And I really think the secret to success is to have a lot of things happening that eventually one plus one will equal four. So in my laboratory, having a lot of different scientific programs going and looking for those synergies or those unexpected interactions, that's really what motivates me is to keep that diversity of topics and different things that we're interested in.

4:49Absolutely. So when someone asks you that dreaded question, what do you do for a living? How do you answer it? Not easily. Usually what I would do, and this time I'm thinking about my own mother when she asked me these things. My mother still thinks I'm a high school teacher. So that's the first challenge, right, is to convince her that I'm not a high school teacher. But the way I do it is I usually relate it to something that will be recognized as a common challenge. Maybe it's a chemotherapy treatment. Maybe it is a non-recyclable polymer, or maybe it's an electroactive device

5:22that may facilitate some type of prosthetic application in medicine. So I try to relate it to something that people can get their hands around, like something they would use every day or something they see every day, and kind of avoid going to the molecular level to a certain extent, kind of keeping it at the impact level of what we're doing. Definitely. Well, I look forward to chatting more about some of your specific projects as we go through our conversation today, Tim. But let's first talk a little bit about motivation. I know me and our listeners love getting motivated, love getting inspired by the people we have on the

5:56show. So when you think about what motivates and inspires you, are there particular quotes or sayings or just driving forces that really keep you going? Oh, yeah. There's plenty of days as a researcher when you're like, boy, I really do need something to kind of bring me back. And we all have those quotes. I mean, I've had many on my office, but the one I've always used is that imagination is more important than knowledge. This was a quote that many people have used in the past, but the poster attributes that to Albert Einstein. But to a certain extent, it's like we're only limited by our imagination. As long as we don't break any laws of thermodynamics or any of the fundamental

6:29principles of organic chemistry, really our field is infinite. And I always tell people, look, we're discovering things and generating the textbooks of the future, the syllabi of the future for our future classrooms, right? So it's really this infinite opportunity to explore so many different things that might help change the world. So that kind of imagination idea is what's really driven me. And I've never felt like getting a 4.0 as an undergraduate is really what it took. I mean, what it takes is this drive to just discover things and be creative and to pursue what you're

7:05passionate about. That's what really gets me going. I also have been motivated by a Linus Pauling quote, In order to have a good idea, you must have lots of them. And I think that's true, too. If you have lots of ideas, then you're never afraid to share one because you have a hundred more in your back pocket. Those quotes really motivate the way I tackle research, how I collaborate and partner with people, and it keeps you moving forward. Absolutely. And I think many people don't necessarily consider science a very creative endeavor. Tim, can you describe a little bit how you're able to

7:37incorporate this imagination and creativity in some of the work that you do? I don't know. Like I said, it happens when you're mowing the lawn or you're taking a shower. I mean, it's these moments of just, you wake up in the morning, the first thing you think about is, wow, what about this molecular structure? Your mind is exceptionally clear, right? And you just kind of delve into these new directions. When I think about creativity, I kind of look at the world around me and then I quickly reduce it down to the molecular level. So if I see a tree, like I might say, well, could I make a molecular structure that could resemble that tree? Or could I use the hose on my

8:10house as a model for how macromolecules entangle? So for me, that creativity comes by simply looking deeply and open-mindedly at what's around you and then bringing that down to the molecular level and seeing how that kind of translates. I love it. And Tim, thinking a little bit about your life and your career, are there any particular people who rise to the top of your mind as individuals who might've inspired you or motivated you or just encouraged you along your journey? There's probably would be a hundred people I could cite. It starts with your parents,

8:41starts with your family. To a certain extent, it's that really close-knit family or your mother or father who you look up to and you learn from. In my case, my mother was a registered nurse. I think if it was 2020, she'd now be the director or a CEO of IBM. So her technical savviness and her intellect really have motivated me in her perseverance. To a certain extent, to be a successful scientist, it really takes an element of perseverance. You just have to be persistent. And that can be a good quality and a bad quality. But as a scientist, you're very,

9:14very persistent. And I think from my mother, that's what I learned. She is persistent even to this day. And she's 87 years old and she's doing so well. I also look around at all the different people I've interacted with, bosses or friends. And yeah, there's Professor Garth Wilkes. He was one of my great friends. He just passed away a few years ago, but he's here every day. When I mention what I'm doing to an audience, it's hard not to quickly go back and hear his words echoing in my mind. Interdisciplinary research, collaborating with others. Those are the messages

9:46that he would send. And those are the messages that I continually remind myself of. So yeah, lots of great people. I mean, when things are challenging, it's always your family, your kids. You want to make the world a better place for them. So doing what I can do to help improve their life, right, to help improve this earth for them, those kind of things really motivate me to keep moving forward and be exceptionally persistent. Wonderful. Well, Tim, I'd love to talk about your own scientific journey a little bit. And you mentioned that your mom was a motivational and inspirational figure for you. Can you take us back to the beginning and talk about how your

10:19interest turned towards science? I remember it vividly. I think it was when I received the chemistry kit as a Christmas present. So at that time, it was very popular to receive a kind of a chemistry kit. And you'd go down to the basement of your house and you'd set up your own little laboratory. You'd take fingerprints of your entire family. You'd try to blow things up down next to the washing machine. I think that's what really got me started. I can remember a model that my parents gave me of a brain and we had to take apart, take the skull off and look at the brain and look at all

10:50the different pieces. And it was basically a model with almost like a puzzle of the brain. And that kind of curiosity very early is really what captivated me from a very young age. And I actually use that time, I think, to a certain extent is my place of solitude. Times are rough or so I'm going through something. Go down to that chemistry kit and take advantage of that. It's your own world of imagination. So I think that's where I really started and just continually moved from there. The other person I think I really attribute to my career to is my high school chemistry teacher.

11:24And she was incredible. I cannot overstate how important a high school chemistry teacher is to the future of science, because it's that point when you're in a sophomore year in high school, when you realize that, hey, this is what I want to do. I don't want to play football. I want to be a scientist. And that she was incredibly motivational to me and really steered me towards the right path. Well, that is phenomenal. And we mentioned in our introduction that you got your bachelor's degree in chemistry from St. Bonaventure University. So can you talk about

11:55your experience in undergrad? Yeah, I mean, I love St. Bonaventure University, just a small school in the southern tier of New York. What I like most about St. Bonaventure is that it is a liberal arts education. And I'm a hardcore scientist right now. I'm at a technical university. But when you're 18 years old, I think starting out with a very, very broad perspective is so key. You're taking courses in psychology, you're taking courses in theology, in that case, all different viewpoints or perspectives

12:25that help you figure out yourself and where you want to go. So that liberal arts education when I was at St. Bonaventure, it was priceless. And the school I was at was small and the teachers knew me. And it was just a great opportunity. I did undergraduate research at a small school and we didn't have anything. I had to basically build everything that we needed. But it was that kind of very nurturing environment, very small university that allowed me to figure out that, hey, the next step is graduate school. And that's what I remember most about St. Bonaventure. It's a beautiful campus

12:56nestled in the mountains of Southern New York. Absolutely. And then you did your PhD there at Virginia Tech and you've come full circle since then. Can you tell us more about your PhD experience? Well, the PhD experiences change your life in more ways than one. Yes, you become a lot more intelligent about your field, you're publishing papers, you're doing all the things that a professional scientist ultimately is expected to do. But more importantly, you're learning to be a professional. You're learning to write, you're learning to speak, you're learning to sell your research, you're learning about international cultures, and you're collaborating with people

13:30who don't look like you and don't act like you and don't think like you. And it's really that diversity in graduate school that really helps you open your mind to discovery and open your mind to how to solve some of the grand challenges of the world. It's just a time when you begin to appreciate the globalness of science. Some of my best friends are from graduate school. You spend a lot of hours in the laboratory, two o'clock in the morning, you're syringing in butyl lithium into a round bottom flask. And who I was standing with next to the hood, I can remember the moment,

14:02I can remember our conversation. It's those moments that are just priceless and they last forever. I mean, graduate school is an absolutely wonderful experience. And it's one of the reasons I actually came back to be a professor is because I loved graduate school and I wanted to provide that experience to others. Definitely. Well, it sounds like you had a great experience. And I know, Tim, you also worked a number of years in industry. So can you talk about what informed this decision to move into industry and what some of your key experiences were there? Well, you know, it's funny how you make these decisions in life. I mean, when I went to industry,

14:33I moved back to Eastman Kodak, which is up in Rochester, New York. And at that time, my father was suffering with diabetes and he had had all kinds of medical issues. And really the motivation, believe it or not, for me to move back to industry was simply to be closer to my father. And I know that sounds kind of unusual, but that was the main motivation for us. I mean, Eastman Kodak is a great company, was a great company. And during the 90s, they were doing corporate research and some of the most cutting edge research in the country. So it wasn't a compromise whatsoever, but it allowed me to be close to him and to also kind of accomplish a good

15:08career path. So I wanted to go to industry. I was tired of making $12,000 a year. So I was excited to get a job. My first salary was $43,000 a year. I remember it exactly. And you think that you are making just an incredible amount of money. I could buy a car now. It's really exciting. So I think that whole idea of being close to my dad because of his health issues, going to a great company like Eastman Kodak and actually no longer living in an apartment with four other guys is what motivated me to a certain extent.

15:39I love it. And you touched on some of the motivations then for coming back to Virginia Tech to be on the faculty. And I know you've got so many amazing projects going on there at Virginia Tech. Is there one in particular you want to dive into in a little bit more detail today? There's only one. I think I can figure out which one. My research group is about 20 students. So every one of them, they think their idea is the most important one. So I apologize to the 19 that I'm not going to highlight. Right now, we're doing a lot of work in the area of additive manufacturing. So to general public, this would be called 3D printing. So we are asking ourselves, what can we

16:15do in a three-dimensional space with an object that's never been done before? How do we take existing molecules and put them into complex shapes? So that's really what we've been doing. The implications of that are immense from healthcare all the way to adhesives. It's just one of these ideas that I think will impact so many different areas of science and engineering. So right now, we're actually 3D printing paints. In the scientific world, those are called latexes or colloids. But we're shining light into basically a bucket of paint, and you're pulling out a three-dimensional

16:49object. So that in itself has so many different challenges in terms of the science. How do you shine light into a bucket of paint? And how do you generate or prepare paint that's responsive to light and can generate a object that has the resolution of the diameter of a hair on your head? That has been one that's been just immensely exciting for me. My students probably catalyze that excitement. They're exceptionally passionate about it, and their enthusiasm is so infectious. And that's

17:20probably one right now that I go to bed at night thinking about that, or I might stray mowing my neighbor's yard when I start thinking about that. I'm sure they don't mind. That's right. Exactly. But I think the whole area of 3D printing, it's been around since 1980, but why haven't we seen it really manifest itself around us? I think the reason is because we haven't approached it from a molecular level. So understanding what we have to do to the molecules to make them suitable to print into a micron scale resolution object, that is, to me, exceptionally exciting.

17:56I think it's an industrial revolution. I think it's going to change the world. And I just love it. Well, Tim, this work is so cool. And to give us a little bit of context or to help us see the bigger picture, perhaps, can you talk about some of the applications for these 3D printed objects, things like 3D printed paint? Really, it is very open in terms of its impact. Again, that's why I kind of like it, because I could think about 3D printing in construction materials. I can think about 3D printing in a healthcare environment. I can think of 3D printing tires on a car. I can think about 3D printing

18:31cell phones, 3D printing satellite dishes. I mean, all those things are possible to us. When I talk to people in my class, I'll say, why is this desk made of wood? Well, it's made of wood because we have a piece of wood and we have a saw. Why is it solid? Well, because that's what we're given. We're given a solid piece of wood. In reality, I think the future is going to be composed of objects and materials that are very programmably designed. Maybe they won't be solid whatsoever, and that will not compromise their mechanical properties or their toughness,

19:01their durability. So even things like 3D printing stents to help improve maybe a bronchial tube defect or some type of prosthetic device. When I think of 3D printing, I basically look around the room and say, I want to print that. Or if I'm making any molecule in my laboratory, I'll tell my students, I want to print every molecule that you guys are making. So right now, the whole thing that motivates me is just putting molecules into three-dimensional shapes and understanding how those millimeter scale shapes will make the world a better place.

19:33Well, Tim, this is a really exciting area of research, but I imagine that you are faced with some challenges and failures along the way as you make progress in these different lines of research. So do you have a favorite story of a failure or a challenge that occurred in your own career, just an everyday struggle that you have? Wow. I mean, how long of a podcast is this, Marie? I mean, yeah, as a scientist, I always tell people it's 10 steps back, one step forward. The biggest challenge in research is being positive to the

20:04point where every data point is good. Yeah, it may not be taking you in the direction you want to go, but it's moving us somewhere. We're learning something. There's no such thing as bad data. So failure to me is always a manner of perspective. You can say that, or you can say, well, I struggled with it and I moved to a new direction, or I became better because of it, or we learned a whole new field of chemistry because of that. Like anyone else, I'm going to struggle with as a scientist, like, do I move into a new field? Did I move into a field that all of a sudden is crowded and no one's interested in? Those are some of the things I would face as a scientist, but I don't think of it that

20:39way. I kind of think of, okay, yeah, maybe I struggled, but let's see if we can turn into a positive and go into a new path. I think that's what keeps me going. It's that perseverance. Nobody is perfect whatsoever. You just have to learn from those things. Absolutely. So Tim, is there a particular problem that you are facing in the lab right now that you are finding difficult to work through? When I think about research these days, what I'm most passionate about too is the whole area of sustainability and what we are doing needs to be done responsibly. So when I look at our research

21:12and I'm in the field of plastics and polymers, it's very challenging these days not to listen to the radio and hear about microplastics in the ocean or single-use packaging recycling rates less than 10% or chewing gum on the sidewalk of the Lincoln Memorial. So right now, I think my biggest challenge is to ensure that what we do in the laboratory is sustainable. We try to follow the strategy of green chemistry and kind of responsible discovery. And then also delivering solutions that won't

21:43lead to a detrimental or deleterious consequence on the environment or our ecosystem. So I'm constantly looking at what we do and saying, wait a minute, this is good, but man, we got to do this in a more sustainable way. We need to use the principles of green chemistry more effectively. We got to be more sensitive to what happens after this material is used. That's probably my biggest struggle right now as a scientist. It's a struggle, but it's motivational. And I think ultimately it'll lead to great discoveries. So that's what we struggle with right now is just ensuring that the chemistry that we do

22:15is not going to have a negative consequence on our environment or on people. Definitely. And I appreciate you bringing that mindset and that critical eye to the research that you do, because I think this is so important. And we're really glad that you shared some of these challenges and struggles and frustrations that you have with the work that you do, because I think it's so important to share those with our listeners. But it's also important to take a moment to celebrate and acknowledge the successes in science. So, Tim, I'd like to switch gears here and talk next about success stories. So do you have a favorite one from your career or your lab?

22:46Every little step in science is a success. When it comes down to it as a professor, your real success is your students. And the students that graduate and they go on and leave the university and they go to change the world. That's our success. Students are our product. And as researchers and as professors, sometimes it's very easy to lose sight of that. You go into this kind of publish or perish or win this NSF award or this DOD award. But at the end of the day, I think our success really is the students that we produce and the lives that we change because of their education. So it really

23:21keeps you grounded when you don't win that NSF grant or you don't win that ACS award. What brings you back down to reality is the fact that we're here to educate our students. We're here to make the world a better place. And I have never been really motivated by an award or a national recognition or a science paper, to be quite honest. I mean, at the end of the day, what keeps me grounded is the students and their passion and excitement and them graduating and getting a great job and starting their life. Excellent. And Tim, how do you celebrate when a student does graduate from the

23:54lab and moves on to the next big thing in their life? I probably go out for a nice glass of wine. We celebrate by staying in touch with them. We celebrate at the ceremony when we place the hood over their shoulders during graduation. We'll celebrate as a group with one of our traditions is to give them a standing ovation at our weekly research group meeting. So it's these small celebrations. It's probably the celebration of just walking around the campus and feeling good. That's probably how we experience it. But yeah, it's a special moment. It's fleeting. They show up with their parents and that ceremony is done in

24:28two hours. But the feeling of that will last much longer than that. And really, it's that feeling kind of a success for that student that just kind of lingers. It stays around. This year, I had a 20-year reunion where all my graduate students came back. Oh, wow. They came back to campus and they gave talks and showed pictures of their children. And that's a heartwarming experience. We're really fortunate as professors to have the opportunity to do this. And we're really fortunate to have this job. Not many people I know in the world have a job with

24:59tenure. I'd been in industry before I came to be a professor. And what's tenure? Industrial people don't have tenure. We can be laid off or our division can be dissolved any day. But as a professor, we are totally blessed with this idea of tenure. And it's just an amazing opportunity. And you've got to relish it. You've got to not take it for granted. And you've got to use it and make a difference with it. Absolutely. And Tim, as a professor, you not only get to do really cool work and work with some really great students, you get to spend quite a bit of your time reading about things that are

25:31interesting to you in the literature. So we love talking about what scientists are reading. We're going to step outside the literature for a moment to talk about what books you're reading or what you can recommend for us. So whether it's related to science or not, do you have a favorite book that me and our listeners should definitely put on our list to read? Wow. So I have to tell you a book besides a Nora Roberts book, right? I mean, something a little bit more intellectually based. It doesn't have to be intellectual at all. You know what's funny about that? In our job, I read frantically. I love writing and I love reading. So I get home at night, I'm almost ready

26:02not to read. And my wife quickly recognized this and she handed me a Nora Roberts book. And I'm not kidding. I have been reading Nora Roberts for probably the last 10 years, which is kind of funny. Now, the book that I would recommend, however, would be, for instance, The Double Helix, which is a book that I've read very recently. And it really gives a retrospective of how the molecular structure of DNA was discovered. And more importantly, it talks about the personalities. It brings science down to people. At the end of the day, scientists are people. They're like everybody else. They're like

26:36your uncle or your aunt. There's personalities, there's disagreements, there's pride, there's all kinds of things that are factored in the way. So I think it's the whole idea of discovering something and understanding the relationships that happen between scientists, good and bad, and the competition that emerges behind that chase to discover the molecular structure of DNA. It's a great book and it's an easy read and it's written by Watson, right? So it's just an incredibly good book. I would encourage everyone to read it. It's not long and it's fun.

27:07Well, excellent recommendation. We will add Double Helix to our website for our listeners to find. And we'll give Nora Roberts a shout out too. Very good. And I'm so glad you brought up the idea that scientists are people too, because this is one of the big messages that we try to convey in our show. So one of the things we like to do is emphasize these human moments in science, some of these fun traditions you've experienced, some of these quirky memories that you have or that you've shared with lab members and colleagues. So Tim, do you have a story that really highlights the human side of science, some of these personalities and funny

27:38moments that you can share with us today? Absolutely. I can think of quite a few and my students probably have heard them three or four times, right? For instance, I was at Eastman Kodak Company. I was sharing a lab with another synthetic organic chemist and he loved classical music and I loved rock and roll and we would be constantly changing that radio back and forth. He'd flip on the classic, he'd out to the men's room and I'd come in and turn it back to rock and roll. But we were the best buddies. We just had completely different interests. But at the end of the day, we did a lot of really exciting things together. Another one of my favorite stories when I was a graduate student was we decided to calculate

28:13how much helium it would take to raise a glow stick off the ground, like a diving stick, right? One of these fluorescent looking sticks that you snap and all of a sudden they turn orange and right, it's kind of fun. Well, we filled the garbage bag up with helium. We figured it out. We tied a string to that glow stick and we walked it outside the chemistry building here at Virginia Tech because this is where I got my PhD. And just as we are about to let that go, a police car drives by. Oh, no. Says, what are you doing? So they kind of turned their head and just smiled and kept driving.

28:43You say it's an experiment, right? Yeah, that's right. That's right. This is only for the good of humanity. I think floating off that glow stick probably was a story I'll always tell the kids. It kind of represents that in the lab late at night, you're having fun. And it's really all about camaraderie and intellectual curiosity and just a good time. And taking that glow stick and floating it over Blacksburg was probably one of my most memorable moments. Oh, that is hilarious. I love that you shared these stories. And I particularly love the music

29:13wars that you mentioned as well. And I have to ask, did you come to appreciate or enjoy classical music after hearing so much of it in the lab? Probably to a certain extent, although I still prefer the 80s rock. If there's some classical music, I'll leave it on there now. But if push comes to shove, I'm going to still change it back to the 80s rock and roll. That's fair. That's fair. Well, Tim, we've talked about a lot of different aspects of your career, but one of the things we haven't yet really touched on in detail are some of the opportunities that you have to travel, to work with people from all over the world, to travel for conferences

29:44and other opportunities. So is there a favorite place or maybe a most memorable place that you've traveled for science? There's so many. And you know what's funny? When I became a professor, I thought, well, I'm going to be teaching in the classroom, teaching organic chemistry labs, and I'm never going to be traveling to Japan or China or Mainz, Germany. That just was not on my radar screen. But you're absolutely right. As a scientist, that is part of our mission. I mean, to a certain extent, we serve as ambassadors or liaisons, right, between countries. So yeah, we've had some great

30:16opportunities. I'm very fortunate. What is my favorite, most interesting place? Going to Mainz, Germany was probably one of my more special moments. When I did that, I took 25 undergraduate students with me. Oh, wow. And it was a study abroad program. And thank God I did not lose any of those students, right? Because I told their parents I would not. So we took 25 students to Mainz, Germany. And Mainz is a beautiful town in Germany. And to a great extent, it was always kind of the mecca of polymer science. There's actually a street named Hermann Staudinger, which was the first scientist 100 years ago

30:51to envision this idea of giant macromolecules. So it was kind of like going to the nucleus of my field and going there and just kind of walking around. And the Guggenheim Museum is there. And it's just this unbelievable atmosphere where you could just imagine scientists from hundreds of years ago coming up with ideas as they strolled through Mainz. I think that was probably one of the more memorable experiences for me. I mean, I've been all over the world. I mean, I've been to Japan, and I love Japan, and I love the culture. And each region of the world tackles questions and does

31:24science very differently. And they do it according to their culture, to a certain extent. So Americans have a certain culture, and we do science a certain way. But if you go to a small university, not even a small university in China, a large university in China, they're going to do things very differently. So it's fun to get to travel the world and see how science is done. And there's definitely a regional or cultural influence of that, which is fun to see. Absolutely. Well, it sounds like you have had some truly phenomenal experiences traveling all over the world for the work that you do. And I love that you brought these 25 undergraduate

31:57students with you, although that sounds a bit like a daunting task to me to try to keep together and manage all these people. Was it stressful? Yeah, it was stressful. It's amazing if you let a 21-year-old person, you empower them to do something. They actually do rise up. It was a really great experience. And it's almost like I saw them become adults right before my eyes, right? It was just amazing. The hardest part was the drinking age in Europe. And the drinking age in Europe is 18. And the United States is 21. So how do I get these students back into their dorm rooms and keep them in there, right? That was the biggest

32:32challenge. So I felt like I was going back to my Catholic grade school experience. I was walking the halls and making sure at 12 o'clock, nobody was escaping. So it was a little stressful. But in reality, I loved every minute. Those students still keep up with me and they talk about what a great experience it was. So yeah, it was stressful, but not bad. Certainly. And I'm sure those memories will last a lifetime for both you and the students. Oh, yeah. That is phenomenal. And I know you and your lab are tackling some great questions in the lab and doing really exciting research. And we touched on some of the challenges that you face. And I love to

33:06challenge all of the people who come on our show to dream big with me and think about what you could do if you had all of the resources imaginable. So Tim, if we took away all the restrictions and barriers you typically face in your work and gave you all of the funding, staff, technology, whatever you would need, what is the one question that you are most interested in or excited about answering? I think all scientists are constantly thinking about the answer to that question, because sometimes the NSF may show up and ask me something like that, right? Who knows? When I look at my field, the easy answer is I want to cure cancer, right? I mean,

33:39everybody would say that to a certain extent. That's true for any scientist. But in reality, what do you want to do? You want to make this world a better place. And you want people to live longer and healthier and higher quality lives. That's what we want as scientists. So if I had all the money in the world and I could start a big foundation and go after it, I probably would go after this idea of sustainability and basically earth sustainability. I would love to eliminate the concerns of plastics, polymers, water purity, food quality, food wastage. I would love to tackle

34:16just this idea of sustainability and resiliency. When you think about it, a population is approaching 10 billion people. And how do we feed them? How do we provide water for them? And how do we not trash our environment or our oceans? So I probably would go after a very system level research program, looking at how we conserve our resources? How do we use them in a responsible way? How do we preserve energy and generate it and recapture it effectively? I think that's the way I would go. I mean,

34:47as a polymer scientist, somebody interested in plastics, the worst thing I would want would be for my legacy to be microplastics in the ocean. I really do not want that. So what I would do is I probably would use those funds to first to clean up the oceans. I'd figure out ways to do that. And I figure out next generation products that would not lead us down this pathway. I love polymers. I love plastics. But the last thing I want to do is to have those materials compromise our earth or compromise future generations. So I think I would focus that infinite resource on coming up with more

35:21sustainable materials and more sustainable solutions for the planet. I like it, Tim. I know sustainability is just this huge, complex and very interdisciplinary problem. And I like that your dream taxed it on multiple fronts. Yeah, it's totally huge. And it's funny, there's a lot of people focusing on sustainability now. It requires so many different types of people. And we have to speak different languages. And we have to be satisfied with small steps, because small steps equal big leaps. So even small improvements

35:53in whatever we're doing in a sustainable way will ultimately make the world a better place. I always say being satisfied with mediocrity, little steps are going to lead us down a good path. Definitely. I think you just have to keep moving forward, like you said. And that's wonderful advice for our listeners out there who might be interested in working in this area. Is there any other advice that you would like to give them today? Perhaps a piece of advice that really helped you along your own career in your own life? Take risks. I think that's important. I always tell my students money is not everything.

36:26When I left Eastman Chemical Company, I can remember my wife and I, I think we took an 80% pay cut to become a professor. People ask me, why did you leave industry to take an assistant professor position? I go, well, I was making too much money and I wasn't working long enough hours. So I thought, hey, let me become an assistant professor. I think when it comes down to it is, again, money is not everything. And I think that taking risks and doing what you're passionate about, no matter who the competition might be. I've always felt that if you're passionate

36:57about something, you will be successful. And it doesn't matter if you're competing with a Nobel Prize winner in the area of science, you will contribute to the field if that is your passion. That's always been my motto is do what you are passionate about, no matter what, and you'll ultimately be successful. Well, I think that is great advice. Tim, is there any other last piece of advice or a last message of inspiration that you would like to leave our listeners with today? I guess engage the society. When I look around what's happening in the world today,

37:28we're hearing outcries from the public about what chemistry is doing to the environment or what polymers or plastics are doing to the environment. And we're not hearing what good things that polymers and plastics are doing for us. Things like prosthetic devices or things like food safety or bandages or angioplasty balloons or retainers for our teeth, right? I think it's important for us to maintain the conversation and for scientists to get out into the community and for scientists to engage and to

37:59enjoy the discourse and the debate of the press. We don't want to stay in our laboratory and do science only. We want to take our science from the laboratory out into our communities and educate and communicate and engage the community as much as we can. I think that's an important message for us as scientists is to really be thinking about that kind of relationship with the public and establishing a really good, meaningful discourse between new technology and their concerns. Certainly. And Tim, you're definitely doing this even by being on our podcast today.

38:33Can you talk about some other examples that you and your lab are engaging with the community or the public? Well, I think a very important avenue is the science museum. It may be located in your own cities. We have a really nice science museum here in Roanoke, Virginia. We also have a beautiful one in Richmond, Virginia. I think engaging with those local science museums is a great thing. I think getting children as middle school students interested in science young, give alternatives to that soccer camp or that football camp, get a science camp going. I actually started a nanoscience camp and that

39:08has been a really cool experience. That was to show middle schoolers what's cool about 10 to the minus ninth meters, right? Really small things. So I think doing things like that, science museums, reaching out to your community colleges where maybe don't have research opportunities and just kind of bringing the kind of infectious environment of a research laboratory, I think, to as many young people as possible. That's what we're trying to do to a great extent in our own research group. And my students, to a great extent, lead the way. They really want to do this. And I just have to

39:39make sure I don't put up any obstacles to them, right? So we're doing all kinds of things, just trying to get science, science camps, science workshops, webinars, all kinds of different avenues to just to let people know science is cool. And science is a great pathway for a career. Absolutely. Well, Tim, we appreciate your outreach efforts and you're doing an amazing job there, both in the lab and out there on the ground with people in the community. And we covered a lot of ground in our conversation today. And if our listeners want to learn more about you and the wonderful work that you do, where should they go or how should they get in touch?

40:11Well, our website is generally up to date. So I'd encourage you to visit our website. We keep it up to date with the latest news and things like that at Virginia Tech. Also, email is probably the best avenue for me. I never sit in my office. I don't like being in my office, but email goes wherever I go. So if you send an email, I'll get on it. It may not be right away, but if I see an email, I'll definitely reply to you. So I think that's the best strategy is to contact me at my email address here at Virginia Tech. It's T-E-L-O-N-G, like my name, at VT, for Virginia Tech, dot edu.

40:43Awesome. Well, Tim, thank you so much for joining us on the show. And thank you for giving our listeners an opportunity to get in touch with you if they have any questions. We really appreciated learning more about you and your wonderful work. Well, it was my absolute pleasure. And I wish I could acknowledge and thank all the people that have made my career so fruitful. And really, it's those partnerships and collaborations and the students and the environment around you that makes the real difference. So I want to give a big shout out to all the people, my students, former students and colleagues who make this an exciting venture. Absolutely. Well, Tim, it's such a pleasure again to have you here today. Listeners, it's been

41:17great to have you here with us as well. We'll see you next time on another episode of People Behind The Science.