EP 267 - Cartographer of the Astral Realm

0:00I've often heard guests describe their experience of having traveled onto a plane of existence that seems oddly familiar, yet entirely disconnected from their known reality. What if an experiencer decides to study these journeys into the unknown, to experiment, to map, and to understand the realm which possibly exists parallel to our own?

0:37Tonight, our guest Samantha guides us into the often seen but rarely understood astral realm. We will hear stories of OBEs in a haunted mansion, the negative side of OBEs, and her experiences in a future Tokyo. Enjoy.

1:05So our guest tonight, Samantha Lee Treasure, holds a Master's Degree in Medical Anthropology from SOAS University of London. She is also a member of the Society for Psychical Research and an affiliate of the University of Virginia Division of Perceptual Studies as a volunteer researcher. An author, a medical anthropologist, and currently taking an MA in medical anthropology in Korea. Am I correct, Sam? Oh, no.

1:37I finished it a couple years ago. Okay. But I still, I did do, I did do my fieldwork in Korea. Oh, okay. And I stayed, I ended up staying, yeah. Okay. But you're still taking up further studies in Korea right now? Yeah, I'm doing a study on out-of-body experiences here. But it's basically, it was on hold for a long time, so I'm just starting it again. So I wasn't able to say another guest's name. My guest is Samantha Lee Treasure, the author of the book right now, The Out-of-Body Experiences, which I'm holding, Explorations and Encounters with the Astral Plane.

2:12Sam, I'll just give you a brief background first of what the podcast is and why I'm so interested to talk to you. Okay. It's because, I wouldn't say I'm an anthropologist, but I've been talking to experiencers in the Philippines or Filipinos who are in different parts of the world. And one of the constant things we discuss and we talk about, and even I am not able to understand it is, well, I'm understanding some of it now because of your book, is that some of them, I would say that most of them experience out-of-body experiences.

2:48And maybe you would be able to bring clarity to some of these experiences, well, after we talk about your experiences also. So thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for agreeing to be a guest on the podcast, Sam. Oh, my pleasure. Okay. So is it okay? I have like two pages of questions. Oh, yeah. Cool. Yeah. I'll do my best to answer them. Okay. Some of the details you might feel that you're repeating because they're in the book, but for the audience, I'd like to ask some of them anyway.

3:23So at what age did you feel, did you experience out-of-body experiences? Right. So I'd been trying since I was about eight years old because my little brother had them. He had about three OBEs. And I'd never, you know, of course, at that age, I'd never heard of them before. So, and I didn't have a name for them either, but I went to the library, you know, we lived on a farm in Canada and there was no library around or there was no internet, you know, as well at the time.

3:54So I had no, you know, we take it for granted now that we have so much information. I would just ask my mom when we went into town, can we stop at the library? And I would just like, I had no idea which section to look in, but I ended up finding like astral projection books in the occult and religion section. And I can't remember what techniques I was using at the time, but I was doing some kind of meditation for OBEs. And then I guess I'm not a very patient person, so I would try for a few days or a few weeks and I'd give up.

4:28But then it wasn't until I was 14 that I had an experience, but I didn't see it as an OBE at the time. I thought it was like a ghost experience until I was in my 20s and then I started to have frequent OBEs. So I'd say like from the end of 2009 until the beginning of 2017, I was having them frequently. But I think the first couple of years it was like, you know, it would be different month to month. So I'd have some months where it would be maybe once a week and maybe, you know, the most I ever had was five in one night.

5:05But that was quite rare. And then I'd have sometimes once a month or I might go like two months without having any and then have another like once a week, twice a week kind of a thing for a while. So it kind of ebbed and flowed. And then from 2017 until maybe a year ago, I stopped really trying to have them. I can kind of talk about like why I think we have dry cells and, you know, why sometimes we can have them more frequently.

5:39I would have them spontaneously a handful of times a year. So it was OK for me because I kind of wanted to put my own personal practice to the side and then just focus on interviewing other people, people who have completely different like ways of looking at the OBE as well. So I felt like that was important for me to stay kind of grounded and not lose myself in the whole thing, because OBEs can be so realistic and they can they can really change your beliefs, which can be a good thing.

6:15But sometimes, yeah, there's not so good parts of that as well, I guess. Would you be able to talk about what you feel the not so good parts are? Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, I'm quite passionate about this because not a lot of people talk about it. So I find that either they're just too extreme. So there's people, especially people who like are advertising astral projection courses and that kind of thing or certain authors and stuff, they'll say they won't talk about the negative side.

6:47And even in some groups online, like whether it's Facebook, Reddit, the admins will filter out any negative stuff because they don't want to scare off the beginners, you know, because and I think I've talked to some of these people. I think that they do have people's best interests in mind because they see the positive benefits to OBEs. So they don't want newbies to miss out on that.

7:17But at the same time, then on the other extreme, people, especially in some religions or even, you know, cults as well, or some people in paranormal spaces as well, will say that it's demonic or, you know, that it's all like negative spirits and stuff. But it's what I found from my own experiences and from most people that I talk to is that it's very difficult to, to like incubate OBEs or to custom design your OBEs like you can say with lucid dreaming, you know, it's a bit more random, I guess, or it can seem random.

7:59But, okay, so some of the negative things, I would say, there's things that can happen before the OBE that happened during the OBE and then after. So the ones that happened before, because of the meditation techniques that people use, this is something that I didn't even know until recently, was there's something called meditation sickness. Oh, I didn't know this. Yeah, and it's, it's quite well known in like, Buddhist traditions, especially like, maybe not trying to think if there's any names, maybe you can know that part out.

8:37I can't remember the names, but yeah, it's quite well known in the in the Buddhist traditions, because they've been practicing meditation for, you know, hundreds of years and more. So they have a list of symptoms that can happen when you meditate. So some of the things can include like delusions or hallucinations, or bodily symptoms, like feeling very energetically drained, or getting kind of like almost like Kundalini type.

9:09Yes, yes, yes. Like vibrations and that kind of thing, or not being able to sleep. So there's all these different things that can happen. And then also people can become kind of like manic, I guess they can get delusions of grandeur, or even psychosis and things like that. And it tends to happen sometimes with like retreats, like Kundalini retreats, or, say, getting Reiki healing as well. So of course, I think for most people that meditate, and most people that go to retreats or get Reiki, they don't have these.

9:43It just, it's something that does happen to people, though. And I also volunteer for the Spiritual Crisis Network, which is based in the UK. And a lot of the emails that we get say that, you know, I went to this retreat, and I did these practices. And since then, I'm having like psychotic episodes, or I can't sleep, or, you know, and some people have even had to go to like psychiatric hospitals and stuff. And there's, there's not a lot of like help or information out there.

10:14But there is, so there are things that people can do if they have these, these things. So they can try different meditation techniques. So they can, instead of focusing on one, just to balance it out, they can also do grounding techniques, which can even be something like going for a walk in nature, a shower or a bath, or like anything kind of nature and, you know, material related, walking barefoot. If you just look at grounding techniques, you'll find it online. And then another thing that can happen, which isn't really, you know, bad, but can be surprising is when the OBE can, is starting, you get these vibration sensations, or you hear loud noises, or you can even feel sensations like some people report like a hand holding their hand or something touching them.

11:10So that can be just kind of shocking for people, and then they get spooked, and they don't want to do the OBE anymore. And then there's things that can happen during the OBE. One, I think the thing that I hear the most, which people say is a negative experience, is like entities, meeting entities, especially if it's in your immediate environment. And you see, you know, shadow figures, or a normal, regular looking person who may or may not be hostile at all, it might be a normal person.

11:46Yes, yes. But it just, it's like this... Scares you, yeah. Yeah, and it's, I think especially for people who come from cultures where spirits aren't a reality, it's kind of a shock to the system. Like, it kind of makes you think, well, how, like, do we actually have boundaries with the spirit world? I mean, because a lot of people, myself included, when you have an OBE, you assume that you're stepping into the spirit world.

12:16Yes. Right? A lot of people report, like, meeting deceased loved ones and stuff too. And it's kind of like a realm with less boundaries than when we're in the body, when we're normally awake. So that can make people feel very anxious and very unsure of reality, like, even when they're awake. Yes. Like, is there something... Because this is another thing that I find really interesting about OBEs, which I haven't found in, like, dreams or sleep paralysis.

12:47Okay. Is that you can be in an OBE and see people and sometimes hear people, and they can't see or hear you. So you're like a ghost. And so the flip side of that is when you're back in your body, you could be thinking maybe there's somebody out of the body or whether they're alive or dead who's... Roaming around. Yes, yes. Watching you right now and hearing you, right? Like, it makes you question reality a lot. So those things, again, it's not inherently, like, a bad thing.

13:18It's just... It's a matter of, like, framing what's going on. So there was one study that showed people who reported their OBEs were negative were the ones that couldn't... They couldn't find... They couldn't, like, make meaning out of it. They didn't have a framework. So if you have, like, a spiritual framework or, I mean, I guess even a scientific framework or something that's strong enough that you can, like, situate the OBE within, then you feel like you can handle it.

13:50Otherwise, it's like a part of your brain is always wandering and you're sort of stuck. And then lastly, like, the things that happen after the OBE is... That's one thing that I'm really interested in is that sometimes people can feel quite alienated from the people around them. Because if you're having OBEs and then, like, who do you talk to about it, right? So when I was having them a lot, I didn't know anybody who was having them. And my best friend was having sleep paralysis a lot, so I could talk to him about it.

14:23But it still wasn't the same because with sleep paralysis, you're not moving anywhere. You're not, like, seeing other worlds and you're not, like, having encounters, like, with OBEs. So, I mean, you can kind of feel like you sound crazy when you're talking about it. Yes. Right? So it's... Yeah, it can feel quite lonely. And then, on the other hand, if you surround yourself with people who are OBEs, sometimes there's these gatekeepers, whether they're the admin, the facilitators of a workshop or whatever.

14:58And, you know, again, they're mostly well-meaning, but there's some sort of, like, filtering going on. So you might not, if you have a negative experience, say, you might not want to openly discuss it when everyone else is saying it's the most beautiful experience they ever had. Because another thing is that... They started with a negative one, yeah. Yeah, and I think, like, I'm not sure what the beliefs are in the Philippines, but I know that in places like the UK or the US or Canada, there's a lot of influence of the New Age, New Age spirituality.

15:32And a lot of people, even in the, like, the biggest Facebook astral protection groups or whatever, the reigning cosmology, the reigning belief is that if you encounter anything negative, it's a part of you. And I can see how that can be empowering for some people, but honestly, like, for me and for other people that I've spoken to, it's like, I don't want to think that that thing is a shadow person that's part of me. Like, oh, I'm part monster or something?

16:03It's not always helpful for people. And then, again, it makes you not want to discuss it with others because they might look at you like, oh, she's got some skeletons in her closet. Yeah. How, Sam, how I wish you could, I could have auto-translated all of the episodes for you because there are almost all of those things come up. Oh my gosh, amazing. Yeah. So in the Philippines, spirituality is a bit more, especially in the provinces, it's more open.

16:35They talk about it openly. But, of course, I'm not sure, again, I'm halfway through your book, but I'm not sure if you kind of delineate it. But I think people mistake their sleep paralysis as OBE sometimes. Ah. So that happens. And I'm not sure if for the people you've talked to, when they OBE, do they always see themselves lying down? Ah, no. No? Ah, okay. Because, okay. So, again, I've kind of mapped. So I'll be sharing my theory, Sam.

17:05I hope you don't mind. I'll be sharing my theory here. So I'm kind of trying to map. I'm not sure if you can see the share screen. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm trying to map what happens when you sleep. It's just that. And I'm sure you have something about this here. But this is just based, all of this is just based on the people I've talked to and all of their experiences. And sometimes, when they have sleep paralysis, I think it's a form of OBE already. Because I've spoken to one person, a good friend, and she was a skeptic.

17:39And she had Reiki healing. And then, while she was having Reiki healing, because she had a burden or something, she could hear our common friend in the next room, but she couldn't move her body. And then she felt she was going up into a pillar of light, going up. And then the sound of our friend was minimizing and minimizing. And she couldn't move her body. So, again, sometimes I think when people have sleep paralysis, they don't necessarily move around their room, but they are there.

18:14But they are disengaged from their physical body. Yes, I agree. So I think sometimes they would say, oh, I was in a sleep paralysis. But technically, you're doing an OBE. So anyway, yeah. So there are a lot, and maybe when I have time, I'll try to share what I have here or what I've collected. But my question is, and you mentioned this, so I'm hanging on to what you said. You said that sometimes when you're in an OBE, you see entities. And I believe that's the case.

18:45If there's an entity nearby and you go out of your body, you're bound to see them if you're in kind of the same vibration or in the same… I'm not sure if you're familiar with the words they use in some new age stuff, like the vibration. Yeah. Yeah. So what are… Oh, no, wait. Sorry. So have you seen… Because I've talked to people who have seen… Well, two people or three people. Have you seen an entity that… They call him the hat man. But like a trench coat and a large hat. Oh, um, I haven't seen the hat man, thankfully.

19:20Thankfully. Okay. Yeah. I've had probably… Because that seems quite common with sleep paralysis. Okay. But I haven't heard of it too much in out-of-body experiences. But I have heard like shadow figures and stuff like that. Okay. So it's mostly shadow figures. But for you, have you, like, experienced or seen anything while you were in an OBE that kind of, not just a shadow figure, like an actualized entity? Like, you said monster earlier.

19:50So I'm assuming something like that.

19:53Yeah, I have done. So some OBEs are so… They're so kind of eerie because you feel so alone and there's nobody there. There's no one in the room and you leave the room and there's no one there. And it feels different somehow. There's an eerie feeling to it. And then other times you will see people. And I'll give you an example. I'll give you the example of the one where I had five back-to-back OBEs. Oh, yes.

20:24Because it was almost like you're going into a new channel each time, like a new channel of reality or something. Yes. So I was at a, like, a haunted location, too, in England, in Western England, in the countryside. And the place is now offices on one side of the building. The other side has got, like, rooms for people to stay in. So it's kind of like a lodging for people who are, like, climbing in the area, mainly, like school groups, kids and stuff like that.

21:02So I was with a paranormal investigating group. This is back in 2017. And we had three weekends over that year to investigate the property. So while they were doing their investigations, I would be on the other side of the building trying to do an OBE experiment. So there was three things we were trying to do. One was, like, exchange passwords with other people, which didn't happen. And then one was to try and see what was in the next room, which was kind of, like, closed.

21:37There was motion detector and CCTV to make sure there's no cheating or anything. And I did see what was in the room, but not at the time, which was interesting. I saw what was in the room for a few hours while they were setting up the room the night before. So that's a weird thing. And the third thing was to see if we could make contact with any of the spirits that had been seen there. So there was this lady in white that a few people had seen. So I, so one of the times that I got out and I went to the next room to see what was there, I saw one of my colleagues there.

22:16But he's like a search and rescue guy. So he was on the other side of the building sleeping because he had to be close to the exit. So I knew he wasn't there and he was acting slightly different too. And there was something about the colors around him, almost like slightly unnatural. And same with the objects on the chair, but everything else was normal. So that was weird. And then another time I came out, I saw my phone on the floor and there was kind of words on the phone that I couldn't read, but no entities, no people.

22:53And then the other time I went out and I heard old fashioned music playing and I could see like light from around the corner. So I went into the room and this is something that happens in OBE. Sometimes it's like everything is almost exactly the way it is physically. There's something different. So that room was actually where another colleague was sleeping. But I entered, when I went to the door, it was like the entrance to the kitchen hall or the dining hall on the other buildings.

23:30It was opposite of where it was. Yes. And there was this woman there and I don't know. I felt very, it felt like I knew her, but I didn't know how. And I just said, oh, like, well, what is this? Like, who are you? What is this? And she said, my name is Maria. And she gave me a hug and then the experience ended. And it's, you know, it was so strange because then when I woke up in the morning, I remembered that when I was 12 years old and I was living on the farm for one week, I kept having these dreams about this middle-aged lady called Maria.

24:07And I don't know, I got the vibe she was maybe from Latin America or something, you know, like not from either England where my family is from or Canada where I was living. So that was really mysterious. I still have no answer for that, but I thought maybe that's the same woman. Maybe it's a personal thing. Yes. And then I was hoping that I was going to, you know, run into the lady in white and ask questions, but I didn't. But then the fourth time I got out and I stayed in the room and there was this Scottish woman there and she was talking about someone named Carl and, you know, and that was it.

24:51But it was very hard to concentrate and to stay in the experience because I felt like I was, my energy was draining sort of. But then the fifth time, the fifth and final time was really strange because when I went out into the hall and then I went out of the building, it was daytime in the summer. And in reality, it was the middle of the night in February and there was snow on the ground. And I saw this little girl wearing like ribbons in her hair and like old fashioned clothes and just playing outside.

25:25And then she said she kind of stopped and looked scared and I was like, what is it? And she looked sort of towards the road. And then when I looked, a horse in a kind of carriage or whatever came around and then like the horse was coming too fast and it fell over with the cart. And, but like nobody was hurt, everything was fine, but it was weird. And then there was a white cat and it just kind of climbed over the cart and went into the building.

25:56And me and the little girl were like laughing because that's such a cat thing to do, like very, doesn't care about anything, not nonchalant. But the girl could see me, right? Yes. And it was really bizarre. And, and so we started to walk into the building together and then that was it. Like I kind of came out of it. But yeah, so that I give that example because it seems like because of that, I don't necessarily think that you're going to see the same thing all the time when you come out into your bedroom or something, you know, and I still don't understand how it works.

26:33But it, it reminded me of like, you know, those fruit machines where you put a corn in and you pull the thing and then like, you don't know every time you pull the thing, the lever. Yeah. Yeah. You get a new, a new combination. It's going to be a surprise. Yeah. It's, it's really mysterious. Sam, you mentioned the white cat and I have my, on my notes here. I think this was mentioned by Anthony Peake in his book that you had a shared dream with a friend who came to your dreams as a white cat. Oh my gosh. Yes.

27:04Right. So, um, yes, this, this person was so. So this was in school, right? Yeah. Yeah. This is like probably my, maybe my, my top three biggest childhood mysteries. So I was, yeah, I was like 15. Um, I was in high school and, uh, my best friend, both of us were really into, you know, ghosts and stuff like this. And no, I didn't know anyone else that was into this. I just moved from the farm to the suburbs of Toronto.

27:37And, and, and I, and I think that he knew that I was, he, he somehow knew because I, I was, yeah. Like I was just waiting for a friend of mine. Um, and then, uh, basically my friend gave my phone number to this guy and I was like, who is this guy? And he was just kind of staring at me, but in, in the way that, because I've met a few people like this, it's like a, a knowing, like an acknowledgement or something. Yes.

28:08And, um, it was kind of like that. So I thought, okay, whatever, let's see. I'll talk to the guy and see what, what he's like. And the first couple of weeks he was just talking about, um, computers and school and stuff. He was a real, like straight A student. Um, and, and then he started to disclose what he's into. So then we became like closest friends. So he was walking me from one class to the next. And I said to him, um, I can't stop dream.

28:39I can't stop thinking about the dream that I was having this morning. And he goes about a white cat. And I was like, what, how could you possibly have known that? That's, I haven't, I never, I never said anything to anyone, not my family or anyone. And he, he started just telling me the dream in detail. Your sister let the cat in through the back garden because she thought it was the neighbor's cat. Cause my neighbor had a white cat called Casper.

29:10Yeah.

29:12Very fitting. And, and then the cat came up to your room and started talking to you. And I was like completely floored. I just thought this guy's not human. He's like a vampire or some, one of those, one of those creatures you hear about. You don't believe until you meet them. And, uh, and I'm going like, how, how, how? And he goes, because I was the white cat. And it freaked me out so much. And he said, um, that he went to like three or four of our other friends and our friends group that morning and said, do you remember your dreams?

29:49And none of them remembered. It was only me that remembered, but he said he went into all of their dreams. Um, and I asked him, you know, of course, how do you do it? Yeah. And he was very, he also knew how to, um, uh, tap phones with computers. Okay. And he was, he, he knew a lot about technology before it was kind of publicly available, you know, which was interesting. This is back in like the late nineties. So he was a dream hacker.

30:20He was a dream hacker and he was also a phone computer hacker. Yes. Yes. So, and, and one day finally, he, um, he told me that he had an aunt who lived in Greece, uh, and he went to live with her for a year and that's where he learned a lot of these things. So there might've been some sort of mystery school or something like that, but, um, but I, I don't know. Um, I actually found him on Facebook, um, recently cause I would, I'd sort of like look for him online sometimes and just to kind of, you know, internet stalk him.

30:58Like, what is he doing now? Because, and, but I, and I, and finally he was on online or he had like a profile after all these years, about maybe a year or a couple of years ago. But I, I, I just haven't had the, um, courage to like reach out because it kind of scares me too. Like now, look, I'm, I'm losing my voice now. It's okay. It's okay. I'll be the one talking first. So you're going to do, but, but I think, I mean, it's, it's integral to your research, Sam. So just a joke.

31:30But when you said white cat in that fifth dream, fifth, fifth OBE was like, Oh, you did mention a white cat. But yeah, yeah, the same one, perhaps. It could be your friend, right? Just checking on you. Yeah. Who knows? With, with those five consecutive OBEs, I have a question. And yeah, I mean, your answer doesn't have to be the actual answer. It could be your, your, your hypothesis or your, your theory of what, what happens when you OBE. So do you think when you OBE, do you think you, you visit parallel worlds?

32:04You're different, you visit different timelines. Personally, what do you think happens? My thinking is that it could be, it could be all of those things, depending on the experience. So I think sometimes it sounds like people are seeing something in the past or the future. Sometimes it could be parallel. Well, I don't know. I'm still kind of, I'm still trying to work it out. Yeah. Because in science, you know, they say that it's, it's your spatial memories.

32:37And that makes a lot of sense. And like, it could be like an evolutionary thing where we evolved the ability to have an OBE because think about it. Like if you're, if you're, if you're in danger, if a lion is chasing you or maybe you've collapsed in the snow because it's cold or you're climbing and you've slipped while hiking or something. A lot of OBEs give you a bird's eye view.

33:08Even like computers, like AI from a few years ago could, if you give it a, a photo of like a 2D photo from say, looking from one side of a room, it can work out from that, a bird's eye image of it. It can kind of figure that out. And our brains can also do that. And we might not consciously be aware of where every single rock is or every single exit or tree, but our mind is taking it all in.

33:41So during the OBE, we can access that. So that makes sense. But, but yes, but there's, there's like, that's, you know, I wish that that's all it was because it would be so much easier to research. And to navigate. Yes. Yeah. But then you've got these experiences where people are seemingly, you know, having a shared experience maybe, or like they're seeing something that they couldn't possibly know about.

34:14And then it turns out that that's true. So my thinking with that was, well, okay, you can still, it can still be easily understood because if you take into account telepathy. So say we're not just, say we're like above our bodies collapse in the snow, we need to find an exit or something warm or like a shelter or something. Wouldn't it be better for survival if we could tap into not just our memories and our minds, but those of the people around us or people close to us.

34:45And I spoke to the head of the Kessler Institute, which is the, like the kind of, I think the largest parapsychology institute in a university in the world. And they're, you know, parapsychologists are generally skeptical and trying to find a scientific explanation. And so she told me that they're very skeptical about like pretty much everything. They don't have proof of anything really. Like whether it's mediums or spirit communication or seeing the future, all these things.

35:18But she said what they do, what they're pretty sure about is telepathy. Okay. Transfer of thought. Yeah. It's like, okay, okay. So then I kind of came to that, like, okay, well, an OBE is still like, we can still scientifically explain it with all of that. But then there's another, but it's like, well, but then there's other experiences where you seem to be, there's like this weird time stuff, like time slips or something. Like, how do we explain that then? It's, it's so much more, it's so much deeper, you know?

35:49Yeah. So, so I have to segue. Sam, I have to segue to this experience. So you said again, so if you were to justify OBEs or try to understand it, you're just kind of in your mind, you are mapping your location, your house. Meaning if you walk in the dark, you can kind of guess where you're going, right? So if you're sleeping and you dream of it, you can kind of walk around your house in your brain, you're wrapping it, right? But then what if you go to a place that you haven't been to and you go there repeatedly, like your experience with that future Asian or future Tokyo?

36:30Yeah. Yeah. So, so can you, again, I don't want to preempt your story, but are you open to talking about that? Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. So how did it start? At what age were you already experimenting when it happened? Yeah. Yeah. And I just want to preface this by saying too, that I initially, I wasn't going to include this in the book. Like I put it in and then I took it out and then I put it in and I took it out. And the only reason I put it in is again, like, so at the beginning we were talking about like bad things that can happen when you have OBEs.

37:05So this is kind of like something which it like prepare yourself if you want to start having OBEs because you don't know where it's going to take you. Yes. You could have just normal classic OBEs and float around your room, which is cool. But you might go into the past or the future seemingly or I don't know. So I, and it could make you feel like you're going crazy, which was what happened to me. So, so yeah. So how it started was actually just in dreams, recurring, recurring place I dreamt of since I was really young, like maybe three or four or something.

37:43Okay. And then, and just dreams. Right. So, and then as I got older, because the place, the place would be the same. So I would kind of realize I'm dreaming and then I'd sort of know how to go around. And it's, of course, it's so different from regular dreams because if you, you know, if you look behind you and then look again, it's normally different or it's always changing. Right. So that was weird, but I, I kind of thought, well, maybe my brain created this place because my favorite shows were like set in a department store and that sort of thing.

38:21But then when I was, so when I was in my twenties and I started to have more OBEs, then I would find myself sometimes like the OBE would start normally, like I kind of get vibrations, start to float out. And then I would feel myself being pulled backwards really fast. And then I would be in this, like, you know, I didn't know where it was at first, but like I came to think of it as like future Tokyo and like I'd see Japanese and stuff.

38:54So, and then some of the experiences would just start, like I would just be there without the leaving the body thing, but it would be, it would be every other way. It would feel like an OBE and so I, so I'll say like the dreams that I had of this place were different from my other dreams and the OBEs that I had of this place were also different from other OBEs because there were a few differences, but like the main one was that it seemed like I was in another body in a, you know, when I could interact with the world around me.

39:27Yes. But a lot of the time I was just kind of passively watching like on autopilot sort of thing. But yeah, like it seemed like a few hundred years in the future. And, and the thing is, it was so consistent that, and I had dozens of these experiences over the years. But then funnily enough, so I, so it's been five years now since I had an OBE of future Tokyo. Yes, five years. Okay. Five years. And I, I had a handful of dreams about it since then.

40:02Cause when I started having the OBEs of future Tokyo, the dreams kind of fell off.

40:10But yeah, I mean like even recently I changed my room around. So I heard from, I talk about this scientist in the book, Cecilia Fercato in Argentina. And she said that one of the studies they did, they found that when people's head is facing northeast, they have more OBEs. At least in Argentina, it might be different depending on where you are in the world. So my bed was facing east and I found it difficult to have an OBE from that, from that position.

40:46So I thought, oh, maybe I'll change the room. So I, I put the bed facing north and then the same night I had a dream of future Tokyo. It was very realistic and like kind of awe-inspiring. But I tend to see like, so I say like it began in a kind of shopping mall, right? But over the years, like especially when I started to have OBEs, it sort of opened up to other places.

41:14And, and so I kind of kept telling myself like, oh, you know, it's a creation of my brain, but it's really cool. A cool one. Yes. Until. And then, and then. And then. Here we go. Yeah, but then, so this is weird. I actually, I don't think I wrote all the details in my book, but I will give you the details here. So I was, gosh, I was probably like 20, 23, I think 23.

41:46And I was working in this like international bar in Tokyo. So there was people from all over the world who would come there and who would work there. And it was, it was busy. So we didn't really have time to like, you know, chat. Yes. But every time I saw this one woman, it was like, there's something in my mind was telling me, you have to talk to her. But I never got it. We worked together for two months, two or three months. I never got a chance to talk to her.

42:17Yes. And I stopped working there. I went and did other things. And then three years later, I was living in London and I had a Japanese roommate and she was working in this other, this Japanese bar in central London. And I was looking for another part-time job. So she brought me there. I had an interview. And as I was walking out of the door, literally in the doorway, this same woman from that bar three years ago walked in.

42:49So we literally crossed paths in the doorway, which felt kind of significant for some reason. I don't know. And we ended up working together there for about a year and being friends. And again, another, but we don't realize anything, any shared experience until probably like two years later. You know, we don't work there anymore. We're meeting for lunch. And she mentions that she has this fear of water. And so I was asking her, why do you think you have a fear of water?

43:20And she says, oh, it's probably from these dreams I've had since I was a kid. So she describes this hotel with a shopping center underneath. And the way I described mine was a shopping mall with a hotel on top. You know, so hers are like focused on the hotel part, mine are the shopping mall. And she says a lot of these experiences, she's like in kind of these back staircases and it's flooding. And she's going up and there's all these people.

43:52And she said in one of these dreams, the guy in front of her turns around and says his name and it's a Korean name. And so at first I'm just kind of casually like, oh, that's very similar to mine. And the more we, you know, the more she talks, I'm like, oh my gosh. So I start telling her about mine and we're finishing each other's sentences. We start to draw sketches on napkins and finishing each other's sketches. And it's like we've seen the same things from different angles.

44:24So I would see these underwater structures and she would see them from the top, from the surface. And I'd sometimes seen them from the surface too. But yeah, there was like a real thing with water for both of us, right? But in mine, in my experiences, what I'm doing is I'm like a utilities person, like not quite like a plumber, but somebody who's in water utilities. So there's these kind of minor flooded, minor flooding that I've seen in these experiences. But what she sees is a big flood, which I haven't seen.

44:56But then the other thing is her, the guy in front of her having a Korean name. And I've heard Korean being spoken a few times, as has she, as well as Japanese and like French a couple of times. But yeah, it's so bizarre, you know, because back then I ended up living in Tokyo, like after these dreams, just because there weren't any jobs in Canada at the time. And my mom was like, you need to move to China or Japan or somewhere.

45:28And so I studied computers and I studied Japanese and I went there. And I didn't feel, I didn't feel any kind of connection to Japan now, like I did in these experiences, you know. But these, when I lived in Japan, that was before my frequent OBEs started. Okay, okay. Question. So are you able to gauge if you're coming into the same person every time? Or are you a different person every time you visit? So at first, I assumed that I was just me.

46:01Yes. Oh, yes. Until I just happened to glance myself in a mirror in one of these like future Tokyo like buildings. And I looked at myself and I was like, whoa, like, that's really weird. That's not me. And then a couple of times I saw, it was like an OBE within an OBE. So I would see the same person, but like, I would be floating above her. Yes. And.

46:32What's her nationality? What's her nationality? Yeah, she looks like kind of like a Nordic sort of looking like sort of light blonde hair, like light green eyes. Whereas my natural color, I have green eyes, but not that light. And then my natural color is like a darker brown.

46:51So, yeah. That's another thing that was interesting, because back then, like, there weren't a lot of foreigners in Japan, you know. Yeah, yeah. There seemed to be something in the experience where I got, I kept getting the feeling that like you couldn't go outside of Tokyo or there were places that were out of bounds. And yeah, and like corporations that run certain parts of the city instead of governments like we have it. And all of these things that I was kind of experiencing back then, it's like, it's weird.

47:25I'm kind of seeing like these slow creep towards that kind of future. You know what I mean? Yes. It's like what Peter Thiel and like what all these tech billionaires, what they are actually proposing. And I think it's Toyota that built like a kind of Toyota city or something recently, like a smart city. Did you see the one with Melania Trump? She had a robot walking beside her. Yes. Brilliant. She wanted robots to teach children, teach children empathy.

47:57So, Sam, I have this kind of, it's not a surprise, but it was a surprise for me. So, one of my past guests who, I mean, we get to talk to each other maybe every half a year, six months. Yeah. And I mentioned to her yesterday, I told her, oh, I'm talking to this author and she has this weird experience in like a future Tokyo. And she said, and I mentioned it's kind of a mall. And she told me, a mall? Because I've been having those too. She's here.

48:27So, she's here. I'm not sure if she can talk now, but. Oh my gosh. Ellie, are you okay to talk now? Can you like describe, if you can describe what your experience was and if it kind of connects with what Sam was experiencing? Because we were chatting, we were chatting. She said, it's kind of different because she didn't notice the flooding. So, Ellie, are you able to talk? I would love to hear. Hello. Yes. Hello. Yes. Okay. So, yeah, I was telling Nick about this a few days ago, or was it yesterday?

49:01I forgot. Anyway, I was having this dream, I think it was just a few weeks ago, where I was, it was prompted by someone who, someone or something that was chasing me. And then, in that dream, it turned into a lucid dream. I was aware that I was dreaming, and I instinctively knew I had to get to this mall. So, I thought it was somewhere in Bangkok at first, but then I realized I haven't seen that building in Bangkok at all. And then I said, perhaps Singapore.

49:33And then there was this sort of consciousness that says, it's not anywhere in those cities that you mentioned. It's everything at once. It's something like that. And so, I went inside, and I passed through this, like, steel back doors, trying to find the right room to open. So, I knew it was, like, a mall, but, I mean, on the ground floor, there was this hotel lobby with this crimson background and velvet, red velvet carpets, I think.

50:03And then there was this, like, sort of Japanese-looking guy and a lady in suit who saw me, and they were wondering why I was there. And I said, I just have to get to somewhere in the building. And then I just walked past them and went upstairs through the back door staircases. And then, oh, sorry, I think it's going to be quite loud here. Okay, I think she's in a public place. Okay. So, I'll read some of the parts she mentioned. Okay. It was not, so she was listening while you were talking about it.

50:35She hasn't read the book. So, again, if you were thinking, oh, he set this up for me to, I mean, since it's an experience, so, to be honest. Oh, no, I believe that. So, she hasn't read the book. I just mentioned it to her, I think, yesterday or two days ago. Anyway, she was saying, it's not a hotel. It looked like a condominium. It was floors, the second to fourth floors were a mall, but floor one is a lobby. The upper floors are a condominium, again, from her perspective.

51:08Then, there are back door staircases, and that's where she passed through to shortcut to the different places. So, yeah, that's, I'm not sure if she has anything else to add. But I'm not sure. So, it's a different future place? Is it different from your experience? Oh, this is fascinating because, okay, so, you know, the Mysterious Universe podcast. Yes, yes. Right, that's, so, and then somebody sent me the link. Like, they were talking about that, the future Tokyo stuff.

51:39So, I watched it, and then in the comments, somebody said she has to check out Mall Worlds. And I was like, what is Mall Worlds? And there's this whole, like, subreddit called Mall Worlds. And all of these people, so Ellie needs to check this out too now. All of these people are saying that they're having these recurring dreams of shopping malls. And some people are saying that they seem to be seeing the same thing.

52:10But it's interesting what Ellie said, that it's like she was asking if it was Bangkok or Singapore. And then it's, like, the voice, like, it's everywhere at once kind of thing. That's interesting. And then she also said she was being chased. Yes, yes. And that's another thing that a lot of people in the subreddit talk about, that they're being chased. Or there's, like, dream police or something, or security guards or something. That's, and, like, the red velvet carpet, and, like, comes up a lot. And the back staircases, right?

52:41Like, I've had it. My friend had it. Yes, yes, yes. As well. And that's, it's really, like, what is that? Because, like, I, I've been reading papers and books about dreams for a long time. And I've never come across this. So it seems like there's something, something is changing. I mean, there's one anthropologist, Robin Sheriff, and she, she's, like, a dream anthropologist. And she says that malls are, like, one of the sort of environment templates that we have in our dreams these days.

53:17Because we're a consumerist society, you know? And, like, I think there's a lot of reasons we might dream of malls. Like, you know, like, if I think for myself, like, when I went to the mall, it meant that I had money and everything was nice. And I had time. And, you know, it's, like, a nice place to revisit. But, but a lot of people feel kind of creeped out by this as well. And, and think that it's sort of a different, it's different, again, different to other dreams, other types of dreams.

53:47But the synchronicity with your, your co-workers is really strange. I mean, if you were to think about it, that's really strange. It's bizarre, yeah. Yeah. And from different perspectives. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's very, I don't know. It's a mystery.

54:04Like you said, you're, you're in Korea right now doing field work. So, also in your book, I think you went to Siberia or is it Russia? Yeah, Siberia, yeah. Yeah. So, are, you're talking to indigenous practitioners, correct? And asking about QBE. So, what are the things that you've discovered that, I mean, aren't in your book yet? Like, oh, that aren't in the book? Or any, even, even if it's in the book, it's okay. But the, the, the things you've discovered are, are noticed. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, there are things that I did, I couldn't put in the book because it was too long.

54:36But in general, the thing that I was kind of, that was interesting to me was that even the shamans that have OBEs have questions about OBEs, you know? But there was, there was one person that I spoke to who was part of a shaman association. So, some shamans are like, they work individually and some are part of a, an association of shamans. And she seemed to have a lot of knowledge about it, but, but there are also like secrets,

55:06right? Like they keep, it's their lineage. And so they don't share like how they have OBEs. It's to do, a lot of it's to do with drumming, but those things should be kind of kept like secret with them. Um, but, but yeah, it was interesting that some of the shamans were like, you know, sometimes they get scared because of their OBEs. They're still kind of dealing with it. Like it's difficult. The thing that I think all shamans that I've encountered would probably agree on is that

55:37it's difficult to be a shaman. Yes. Yeah. The responsibility, right? Like, yeah, lots of responsibility, like very hard, like emotionally, I guess as well, like the emotions that you would feel from your clients and the spirits and everything. Like it's a lot to process. I was going to say like one thing that wasn't in the book, which was, which I found interesting was, um, me and my friend, we went to Lake Baikal, which is supposed to be like the most ancient lake in the world or something.

56:07And, um, for many, many, many generations, people have done shamanic rituals there. So my friend, um, she's the daughter of a shaman. She invited me to go with her and participate in this ritual with her. And we took this bus, like, you know, hours through forest to get there. And it was a small bus. So I was in the front next to the driver. She was in the back. So we didn't talk to each other. And when we get off the bus, we both looked at each other and we were like, I have a really

56:38strange feeling about this. So while we were on the bus, we both came to the separate realization that it's not right for me to participate in this because it's, it's sacred. It's like part of their heritage. And even if she invites me, it doesn't mean it's okay. Cause there's spirits as well. And like other people will want to de-invite me, I guess. Yes. Yes. So I was like, okay, maybe I'll just like do something around the corner where we're out

57:08of earshot, out of sight kind of a thing. And I can't remember what it was now. Um, she suggested I do something else instead. But I couldn't sleep that night. So I, I thought we were, we were sleeping like right on the lake, um, a few meters from the lake. And I thought, wouldn't it be interesting to have an OBE here?

57:31So, you know, not thinking, Hey, you know, if it's not okay to do a ritual, maybe it's not okay to have an OBE here. Right. Yes. And, and, and so I started to like try and induce it. And I had these, like, you know, these hypnagogic images that you can kind of get sometimes before sleep, like really vivid. Um, it's almost like seeing a movie or something and it's rare for me to get that. But I was, I just, um, saw all of these faces coming at me and they were wearing like, um,

58:06traditional headdresses and stuff. And haunting you. Yeah. Yeah. Like haunting me. And I was like, what, what is this? And I started to feel like I was on psychedelics really. And I hadn't, me and my friend had eaten and drank the same thing and she was fine. And then, um, for, for like hours, I was just going through this weird, like psychedelic trip. And then, um, and I, every time I slept, I would be like, it felt like someone was trying to wake me up.

58:36And I was still thinking like, Oh, I want to have an OBE. And then, um, and then finally I had the realization, like, wait a minute. No, hold on a minute because I should know better. This is like astral tourism or something. Cause I think that in, it's funny. Cause like, um, Ryan Hurd, who's a lucid dreaming and sleep paralysis author and a researcher. He said that he found that like in the West, a lot of the approaches of lucid dreamers comes

59:10from like colonial history. And he said this, he said, he said this in a conference once and everyone looked at him like they wanted to kill him. And I was like, I want to put that in my book, but like, also, I don't know, like maybe for the next book after, but, um, but then I was like, Oh, okay, well, yeah, it's like same with OBE. It's like this kind of, there's this kind of, um, view among a lot of people that you can go out of body anytime you want, any place you want. Right.

59:41Unless there's, um, like I've heard, you know, Trump has astral guards and Putin has astral guards. Like people say that they've seen them as well. And, and that are like, um, Antarctica has astral guards. So places like that. Right. But, um, but yeah, it was interesting because I was like, well, just, just a question. I mean, last two questions. Have you tried remote viewing? Mm hmm. Yes, I have. Um, yeah, it's interesting.

1:00:11So what I've heard about remote viewing is that the, um, Soviets learned OBEs from the shamans, cause that's what they do. It's Siberian shamans and kind of use that to, you know, spy. Right. And then the United States wanted to do the same thing, but only got a little, little pieces of information about what they were doing. So how to kind of, um, reverse engineer.

1:00:42And then Ingo Swann came up with the protocol of remote viewing. And yeah, I tried it. I did a remote viewing course, um, and it worked and it worked for almost everyone in the course. And these were, you know, people that never had any kind of experience either. Um, so if you follow the rules, then you'll get, you'll get something. Um, but what I've heard is that the U S government is now using OBEs because they realized that with remote viewing.

1:01:12So it's kind of like just closing your eyes and seeing, um, the movie, whereas the OBE is more like virtual reality and like moving around in the space or something and remote viewing, it's like you, uh, what is it called? Um, your, well, your imagination or your left brain can kind of start to interpret what you're seeing and that can change what you're seeing. So it, it's not always accurate. Whereas with the OBE, it's very hard for your mind, for your thoughts, um, to affect the

1:01:48environment. Wow. So that's something I have to, I have to think about. Uh, uh, Sam, last question. I wasn't able to ask you, I don't think I've read it in your book, but how has your experience ever since you were young up to now, uh, influenced how you see the world? I mean, with all your experiences, I, I'm thinking, I mean, you, you say you keep yourself grounded, but how do you see reality now? Yeah. I keep myself grounded by being in denial.

1:02:18I mean, to be perfectly honest, you know, because when, when I, when I think about my experiences and I take them seriously and I think, okay, if these are real, then, um, which I think at least some of them are very real, then what would that mean about the nature of reality? And so I think either I came to the conclusion, like either we're living in a simulation, like this is a simulation, maybe those places are all their other simulations, or maybe that's

1:02:54like future Tokyo was the real world because it feels realer than this. Hmm. Yeah. So that's one, that's one thing, or it's even stranger than that. And it's something that's really hard for us to perceive of. Yeah. Like something that has to do with more with, um, time. So if it's not, well, whether it is a simulation or not, I guess it means that we could maybe have relationships or like friendships with people from, um, other times that we can meet with

1:03:29in dreams or OBEs or whatever. And that's really interesting. It's, it's kind of also reminds me a bit of like, um, have you ever seen the man in the high castle? There was a book. I actually started watching it yesterday. So this is like a synchronicity. I've known about it. I've studied, um, Philip K. Dick, Philip K. Yeah. I've studied his speech and then I started watching it yesterday. Yeah. But yeah, it's a possible reality. Right.

1:03:59Yeah. Yeah. Are you, sorry, you were going to say something? Yeah. I think that, um, well, Philip K. Dick as well. He seemed to see the future, maybe not in OBEs, but like in sort of visions or, or just in his mind because he, he had, um, an experience at a gas station. So this is in Anthony's book about Philip K. His biography is brilliant. Yes. And he talks about being in a gas station and this scenario plays out.

1:04:31And then he was like, um, wait a minute. Like I wrote about this. Yeah. And then, and then like when certain things were happening in the world with technology or whatever, he would, he said, um, the world is becoming a Philip K. Dick novel. Yeah. And yeah, I kind of felt like that with my OBEs too, like over the years, like, wait a minute, this things are sounding familiar now within the news and starting to make sense. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know what it means.

1:05:02I wish that I did. Yeah. Does anyone here have a question before we say goodbye to, to Sam? Oh, I saw, I saw somebody said, what is the difference between astral projection and OBEs so I can. Yes. Um, so I think a lot of people use both terms like the same. But in general, usually astral projection is like an intentional OBE. So when you try to have it, um, whereas OBE could be like any type, like intentional,

1:05:37spontaneous, et cetera. Astral projection is intentional. Um, and, and also like intentional OBEs tend to be a little bit less realistic than spontaneous OBEs, which is interesting, but that there was some study on it, but it was quite a while ago, but it does seem like when you do these practices, meditations and, and visualizations and stuff, um, yeah, I don't know.

1:06:08It's, it can't be different, but even if you have spontaneous OBEs, um, they can kind of progress to different things over time. So they might start where you're just in your room and then later on you might go out the window and be in a different place. Yeah. Sometimes I've heard people tell me that when they go out the window, they're not outside their house, they're somewhere else entirely. Yeah. Yeah. That's quite common, I think. But again, they, yeah, it could be a dream or it could be, last question. Do you, when you do an OBE, can you manifest in the meaning, let's say for future Tokyo

1:06:43where you're trying to, okay, I'll open this door and I'll be here in this certain place. Were you able to do that? Oh, um, I haven't been able to, and even like people who are really, real, real adepts who have been doing this, um, who can go out of body at will, um, also say that they have trouble doing it, but I think there are people that can, but it seems quite rare. Like if I'm out of body, um, I have tried, but it doesn't, it's, I don't think it's ever

1:07:20worked for me, but, um, also the, the scientists I talked about, Cecilia Forcato, she also said that, um, they've interviewed a lot of lucid dreamers and OBEers and, you know, the lucid dreamers can do all of that, but then the OBEers, they can't. The only thing that they can control is like where they go. So maybe through their emotion, emotions, like feeling more lighthearted or joyous or something love, and that might make you feel more lighter, or you might still be afraid

1:07:52and whatever, but you go through the wall or just leave somehow or wake yourself up then, you know? Yeah. Oh yeah. I, I did want to say, um, I have heard that, uh, one thing people say is if you have like an emotional connection to a place or a person, it might happen naturally, or you can kind of try to hone in on that. And then, um, so yeah, I've heard somebody told me that they can do it that way. Um, they can focus on that and then go to that person or place in the OBE.

1:08:26Yeah. Okay. I'll, I'll save my last question next time for part two. Joke. Just a joke. Oh no, it's okay. You can, you can ask, you can ask now. It's okay. So I've heard some, a person tell me that when she does an OBE, if she panics or isn't calm in that state of, in that out of body experience, the OBE stops. So have, is that, have you observed that also? Ah, so if, if she panics while she's going out of body, then it stops. Yes, yes, yes. So I think, I think it's because you're like anytime that you're very alert, like you could

1:09:03say that it's the, like a beta waves in your brain, like when you're reading or focus on something that seems to not be conducive to OBEs. Whereas like the alpha and kind of blocks out things that are happening in the environment and your body. And so you're more focused inward. You can, yeah. Or, or, or like outward out of the body and theta, those are more conducive to OBEs. So if you, yeah, if you panic, then it tends to be, yeah.

1:09:34But I just wanted to say too about the sleep paralysis, because you mentioned that a lot of people are having sleep paralysis, but they think they say like it's OBEs. Yeah. Um, so I think that the two are really connected because sometimes you can, uh, so Sylvan Muldoon, he wrote a book like a hundred years ago about astral projection. And he talked about something he called astral catalepsy, which is when you're, um, uh, you're

1:10:07like out of body, like you're floating out of your body, but you can't move, you can't move your astral body. Yes. So there's that too, like, and, and the further away you are from your body, the easier it is to move and the stronger or the healthier your body is, um, the more difficult it is to get for far from your body as well. So that's why it, it can happen when you're sick or something, it tends to happen more

1:10:40or when you're tired, you're very tired. You've been working, working out or working hard or like studying hard or something like that. It can happen, sleep paralysis and obese, but yeah. And then also just being in bed, not floating and not being able to move. And then suddenly, or, or like suddenly you can move a little bit, but the experience stays the same. So I think those are obese. Okay. Thank you for that clarification. Sam, can you, uh, tell us where people can find your book and, uh, what, what's the title

1:11:13of your next book? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Sure. Sure. Yes, I do. So, um, uh, it's on Amazon and I guess like Barnes and Noble, I think like those kinds of book, any, any kind of online booksellers and I'm more active on like Instagram. So Samantha Lee treasure on there, if you want to like follow what I'm doing. And then, uh, my next book is coming out next January and it's called cyborg phantoms. So that's more about how, um, so there's a chapter on OBEs, a chapter on sleep paralysis

1:11:47and dreams and so on, so on, uh, like different types of hallucinations or phantoms or spiritual experiences that are, uh, shaped by media and technology. So like sleep paralysis figure, shadow figures holding an iPad or cartoon astral worlds and stuff like that, that people are reporting, which yeah, like those things also call into question. What are these experiences and what is reality? Wow. Okay.

1:12:17So when that comes out, uh, I hope you will expect, uh, I will message you again. Yeah, I would love to. But Sam, thank you. Thank you for the time. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you. Thanks. Lovely talking to you. Thank you also.

1:12:32Sam, thank you again for taking the time to share your research and your stories. For those who are interested in Sam's book, Out of Body Experiences, Explorations and Encounters with the Astral Plane, I'll post the link in the show notes. Thank you also, Ellie, for sharing your experience and trying to give context to Sam's experience with Future Tokyo. For our regular listeners, you might notice that I've arranged the past few episodes to

1:13:03illustrate what Filipinos have possibly experienced in the astral realm. So you can check out episode 261 to episode 263, where the guests describe out-of-body experiences. If you have OBE experiences in the future Tokyo or mall world, and you want to share this, you can email me at paranormalsph at gmail.com. If it's your first time listening to the podcast, welcome to the Paranormal Podcast. The podcast is a collection of first-hand experiences with the paranormal, which ranges from ghosts,

1:13:39elementals, aliens, and all the other unexplained entities people encounter in the astral realm. Nearly all our episodes are in Filipino, but we do have English-only episodes like this one. I will share a link to that playlist in the show notes. If you want to hear more stories like this, you might want to like, share, and subscribe. New episodes every Thursday, 1.37pm on YouTube, and 5 days after on Spotify, 7pm. That's on Tuesdays.

1:14:11You can find the podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Facebook, Twitter X, Instagram, Threads, and Thick Truck. Before we end, let's give a shout-out and thank you to our Paranormal Patreons and YouTube members. Thank you, April, Arian, Bikermama, Z, The Count of Monte Cristo, J3, Laura, Gracie, Yad, Hotaru, Mark, John, Jan, JRS, Des, Anonifamous, Solana Moon, Mary Grace, Lea J, Chris, Joe, Erica, Jella,

1:14:44Aimee, Ready, Set, Jervie, Nakamura, Gray Creek, 676, Rexon1231, JXLLXCX, Isa, Nuna, Catscat, Joyson, Freeland, Queen, HS, Pusang Inanyo, Kathy, Liam, S4 Shan, Dreamcatcher, Jacknice12, and Denre4753. Thank you for all your support. Patreon and YouTube membership are ways to support the podcast. If you're interested in supporting the podcast that way, you can find the link in the show notes.

1:15:16The Paranormal Podcast is engineered and produced by F90 Productions. Thank you, everyone, for listening. Please stay safe.

1:15:35Thank you, everyone, for listening.

1:16:05Hello, people.