Immunity gets a boost from a surprising place — breakfast

Introduction

0:00a cast powers the world's best podcasts here's a show that we recommend a new season of 90 day is upon us and little miss recap has you covered my name is amy archer i am a writer i'm a libra i'm a mom and most importantly i'm a lady of a certain age i grew up on a steady diet of soap operas and i've now taken that lens and applied it to reality television together with a bunch of my friends we talk about some of our favorite reality shows including sister wives

0:3490 day fiance love is blind and more and don't forget reality roundup on fridays where we talk about the latest happening on and off screen of our favorite trash reality shows come and join us at little miss recap that's little miss recap listen anywhere you get podcasts acast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere acast.com

Immunity Boost

1:04why is light so far like it sounds so simple they had no idea but now the data's i find this not only refreshing but but at some level astounding nature welcome back to the nature podcast this week how having breakfast can boost immunity

1:36and lessons from the 40th anniversary of chernobyl i'm maren hansberger and i'm nick patrick how eating is good for you according to science well more specifically having food may give some immune cells known as t cells a boost in other words the best time to get an infection may be after breakfast

2:10something like that if you're going to go out at least be well fed this is greg delkoff author of a new paper in nature that's looked at how t cells respond to feeding there's the old adage like feed a cold starved fever and that kind of thing and we think there's some value in this now t cells are a group of white blood cells that coordinate the body's immune responses activating in reaction to threats if they come across something that's not supposed to be there like a bacterium virus or even

2:41a tumor they respond to it and begin to call in the troops sending chemical messages to other immune cells and dividing rapidly themselves this is something known as activation and if it sounds like it would require a lot of energy you'd be right the activation and and kind of the training up of your immune system is incredibly demanding that's why when we get sick we get tired we get fatigued that is your body demanding that energy to allow your immune system to thrive as there is such a well-known

3:17energy demand researchers know a lot about long-term dietary changes in relation to the immune system but less is known about the very short term like if you've had breakfast or not so greg and the team recruited people to have their blood taken before breakfast so they'd fasted overnight and then again after they'd had six hours to go and eat what they liked often breakfast and lunch to test their post-meal or post-prangeal state now these people were not infected with a virus they were not vaccinated against

3:51anything this was just looking at their resting immune repertoire and what we found were striking metabolic differences between those two different populations of t cells the ones that were before breakfast and the ones that we saw after lunch after lunch the t cells were better able to take up sugars had more fats and more efficient mitochondria not only that but they could also more easily divide and proliferate to make the clonal immune army that you need to tackle infections ultimately greg and the

4:24team think that the t cells had a boosted ability to respond to threats in mouse studies they were able to give animals vaccinations and monitor their responses in detail if the t cells saw their vaccination in the fed states they proliferated better they produced a stronger clonal army and they were able to provide better protection long term we call that memory when the cells enter into that long-lived state that was going to protect them in the future that they were far more likely to become memory cells

4:56as well the mice also offered the team the ability to identify the exact mechanism that caused this effect they found that circulating particles that carry fats in the blood called chylomicrons seemed to be key as this effect relied on their presence and they also showed that the t cells in mice that had been fed recently had a greater capacity to produce proteins the team also wondered whether this effect could boost immune therapies like chimeric antigen receptor or car t cell therapies where receptors are engineered

5:33to improve t cells abilities to root out threats and what we found was that the car t cells we manufactured after lunch lasted longer and were more effective so this is a direct therapeutic implication where we should be standardizing and thinking about what patients eat before we isolate their blood to manufacture these t cells so something that we're very excited about moving forward in the future i think this is really an exciting study and very original this is lionel apito an immunologist at

6:07indiana university who is not involved in this work his research includes car t cell therapies so he found this aspect particularly interesting this is really like a well-controlled experiment because the cells were harvested from the individual after fasting then had a meal and then after six hours again harvesting the cells again and testing their anti-cancer properties and the results are quite quite striking actually the cells from the fed mice showed a greater ability to prevent tumor relapses in other words more anti-cancer

6:44effects lionel did note that the authors largely focused on cd8 t cells a particular subgroup of the immune cells in some experiments they did look at cd4 t cells but noted for the anti-cancer effects so he'd like to see more work on that in the future overall as activation of t cells is known to be energy demanding this effect made sense to lionel but the fact it happened so quickly was certainly new i guess the results per se is not surprising to me what is surprising is actually the timing such a short time

7:20like six hours like definitely not a long time and still that has profound consequences on c cell immunity he also pointed out that one limitation of the study is that people were able to eat whatever they liked for those six hours which made it a bit difficult to know what exactly is causing the effects shown in the study greg also acknowledges this but he suggests that this could actually be considered a strength some people ate cookies and some people ate rice and some people ate salads and

7:53some people had hamburgers and while we weren't statistically powered to determine the differences what we were able to say is that it happened every time so we knew even across all 30 or so donors that we had tested we always saw the postprandial effect just telling us this is a good thing right that a meal matters and you can have whatever you want right there may be some things that are better or not as good but you're going to get this effect regardless so the breadth of the effect was really exciting still in future work greg and the team are going to do studies with more controlled diets

8:26to find the key components of nutrition that can improve the t-cells abilities understanding this could allow researchers to design food interventions to boost vaccinations or immune therapies it may be some time before we discover what exact hamburger enhances our immunity but for now greg thinks that this study should prompt researchers to reassess how diet influences the immune response this is something that we really don't ask patients or donors anything about we don't really say when have you

8:59eaten last and what did you eat and that may make a big difference of how effective those t-cells are so i think for just from looking from doing science on humans this is going to be important to understand that was greg delgoff from the university of pittsburgh in the u.s you also heard from lionel apatow from indiana university also in the u.s for more on that story you can check out the links in the show notes

Nuclear Power

9:22coming up as calls for an increase in nuclear power production get louder we hear about the lessons that should be learned from the 40th anniversary of the chernobyl disaster right now though it's time for the research highlights with dan fox physicists have for the first time detected cosmic rays using the trail of radio waves they left behind in antarctic ice researchers analyzed data from 208 days of operation

9:52of the ashkarion radio array based at the south pole there detectors placed on strings down five boreholes up to 200 meters deep recorded 13 instances of radio emissions rippling through the ice by analyzing the shape direction and rate of these signals they found that the events were compatible with being caused by a cosmic ray hitting the ice and creating a cascade of particles that emits a radio shock wave a process known as the ashkarion effect because radio emissions travel farther in ice than light does

10:26an in ice radio array can efficiently cover much more volume than observatories that rely on optical signatures these observations lay the groundwork for spotting elusive high energy neutrinos in follow-up detectors planned to cover volumes of more than 100 cubic kilometers you can find that research in physical review letters it seems even ants enjoy a spa day as a species of harvester ant from the u.s has been

10:59observed visiting the nests of a smaller species that seem to groom their hulking visitor pagona mirmax barbatus also known as red harvester ants have been seen backing up to the entrance of a nest belonging to a much smaller species of dory mirmax ant once in position the harvester ant freezes in place as one or more tiny workers emerge from the nest and started crawling all over its body the dory mirmax ants would even lick and nibble between its mandibles presumably freeing them of parasites or bacteria

11:31the behavior mirrors that of cleaner fish that are often seen helping larger fish stay parasite free but in both insects and fishes is not always clear whether these sessions actually benefit the larger species and further observation will be needed to understand the effects on a colony's health find that research in ecology and evolution

Chernobyl Anniversary

11:5240 years ago last sunday during a test of reactor 4 at the chernobyl nuclear power plant in ukraine a chain of events was set in motion that resulted in the worst nuclear disaster the world has ever seen the shadows cast by this event and by the later fukushima nuclear disaster in japan led many to turn away from nuclear power but now many countries and companies are calling for nuclear to play a bigger

12:25role in the world's energy mix to help move away from fossil fuels and to meet an increasing demand for electricity but there's much that needs to be considered this week nature has a worldview article written by alexandra bell president of the bulletin of the atomic scientists an organization that addresses global security and public policy challenges that are posed by accelerating technological advancements in her worldview alexandra calls for discussion about the risks facing nuclear power both in the future and the risks that existing facilities are facing right now this is something that's been

12:58brought into sharp focus by things like the russian shelling of the zaporizhia nuclear plant during the country's illegal invasion of ukraine and separately a drone strike also caused extensive damage to the protective shell encasing the remains of chernobyl's reactor 4 which risks destabilizing the site and jeopardizes the plans to decommission the remaining radioactive material i spoke with alexandra about what society needs to consider as we move into a nuclear energy future and i began by asking her about her memories of the trenoble catastrophe this disaster happened when i was little but i distinctly remember

13:33watching the evening news and being worried about what was happening the tension that i felt from my parents in the room not the least of which because they had been worried about the three mile island disaster than the partial meltdown that had happened there in 1979 but also my mother's family in finland and watching this radiation spreading ever northwards and after the disaster at chernobyl what was the shift that we saw in the world's attitude towards nuclear energy in the aftermath of chernobyl i

14:04think you saw worldwide fear and skepticism about the safety of reactors of course what happened at chernobyl was really a cascade of calamities caused by bad safety measures by improper leadership over that facility you had that skepticism from the global community about nuclear power in general but you also had international institutions putting in better safeguards better norms and behaviors demands for transparency around issues like this so you saw sort of a balance of some countries continuing to

14:38invest in civil nuclear technology and some backing off and you saw this replay itself in the aftermath of the fukushima disaster in japan where countries thought if this is the kind of reactor disaster that can happen as a result of natural disasters maybe we should be rethinking our investments but memories fade time passes technologies improve energy demands go up so you're now seeing a broad-based interest around the world in investment in civil nuclear technology and that's really to deal with growing ai energy demands

15:11and energy demands of a growing global population in general right so what lessons can we take from a disaster like chernobyl as we go into this future where the world may be relying on a new era of nuclear energy to help us meet current and future energy needs so something we're seeing today is a tech industry that's increasing the amount of footprint for data centers and the development of new technologies they need power and as the globe transitions away from a fossil fuel based economy civil nuclear power

15:44is really going to be a bridge hopefully to investment in green technologies across the board what you're going to see is investments in small reactors to power these data facilities and other infrastructure spread across lots of different countries lots of different places we need to make sure that there's a standardized level of safety for these reactors that these tech companies understand the inherent dangers that come along with civil nuclear technology i'm really interested in why nuclear is

16:15so promising in this regard as opposed to something like solar or wind like why is nuclear the big potential solution here as we try to move away from fossil fuels there is a view that nuclear energy can be a bridging technology wind solar obviously are things that we're investing in they're not quite at scale at cost effectiveness that we see with nuclear of course they don't have the inherent dangers of nuclear but nevertheless you're going to see these investments go forward when they do when these new reactors are

16:46going to be built a new generation around the world we need to make sure there's safeguards in place standards in place one to make sure these operations are happening safely two is that civil nuclear technology is unfortunately a nuclear weapons starter kit so in addition to making sure the facilities themselves are safe we have to make sure companies are investing in proliferation resistant technology so civil nuclear reactors cannot be turned into a nuclear weapons program we've seen that happen before it can happen but we do have lessons learned now very hard lessons learned about how to prevent

17:22such proliferation but again that's something that industry needs to be involved in and it's something that governments need to be demanding and what's happening in the regulatory space related to this potential predicted increase in demand for nuclear energy from the private sector what trends are you seeing in conjunction with that well from a regulatory perspective in the u.s. in general what you've seen is a lowering of standards a hope for this administration at least to rapidly expand civil nuclear reactor development to quickly get facilities online unfortunately the result of that is the lowering of these

17:58standards you know we really need to balance the need for this technology for these energy demands with safety of communities around the world we already know that poorly constructed poorly managed nuclear facilities can create disasters so we need to do everything that we can to avoid that and what are the conversations that you're having with experts and policymakers about the threats posed by conflicts around the world to current civil nuclear facilities yeah this is a difficult topic because in general

18:28energy facilities that are used for military purposes are considered legitimate military targets unfortunately civil reactors sort of sit in a gray space there's an idea that they can be a dual use for both civilian power and for military operations the issue at hand is the danger of attacking nuclear facilities in particular because of what could happen it is necessary now given the dangers of what we've seen at Chernobyl what we've seen at Fukushima we need to have a conversation about whether or not it is legitimate

19:01to attack these types of facilities particularly civil nuclear reactors that are not ostensibly clearly a part of a military program and we have institutions that can determine that like the IAEA and we're way overdue for a conversation this is something that I talked about when I was inside the U.S. government and certainly it's a subject for experts for policymakers to be discussing now it is past time for us to have a serious conversation whether it's in Vienna at the International Atomic Energy Agency

19:34or in New York at the United Nations about how we prevent such attacks in a way that makes sense for the entire international community finally then this week is marking the 40th anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster so how can what happened then inform what happens today so Chernobyl was really our worst worst case nightmare scenario when it comes to the potential dangers associated with a civil nuclear reactor we certainly learned a lot of lessons about safety about security of facilities about transparency

20:06in a crisis like this we need to get information out as quickly as possible fact-based science focus not spin not jargon because accidents happen and the truth of the matter here is that we are going to be investing in civil nuclear technology but what we need if we're going to make these investments is full transparency public oversight and regulation of the nuclear power industry and we also need resilience and response mechanisms in case the worst happens and we constantly need to be updating

20:40these norms these regulations to make sure they're fit for purpose in a world that's constantly evolving as tech is constantly evolving the stakes could not be higher when it comes to civilian nuclear power we also desperately need to have a conversation about keeping civil nuclear reactors out of conflicts Alexandra Bell from the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists there to read more about her thoughts on ensuring the safety of future nuclear power you can head over to the show notes where you'll find a link to her worldview and that's all for this time we'll be back later in the week with the briefing podcast but until then

21:15if you've enjoyed the show do let us know you can leave a review on your podcast app of choice or you can reach out to us on social media we're at nature podcast and of course one email to podcast at nature.com I'm Nick Petra-Chow and I'm Maren Hunsberger thanks for listening Acast powers the world's best podcasts here's a show that we recommend

21:53a new season of 90 day is upon us and little miss recap has you covered my name is Amy Archer I'm a writer I'm a Libra I'm a mom and most importantly I'm a lady of a certain age I grew up on a steady diet of soap operas and I've now taken that lens and applied it to reality television together with a bunch of my friends we talk about some of our favorite reality shows including sister wives 90 day fiance love is blind and more and don't forget reality roundup on

22:26fridays where we talk about the latest happening on and off screen of our favorite trash reality shows come and join us at little miss recap that's little miss recap listen anywhere you get podcasts a cast helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere a cast.com you