How can you communicate science through books? SciCom-Special #7 with Dr. Nicholas Wright.

Introduction to Kaleidoscience

0:00Hi and welcome to Kaleidoscience. You are listening to our winter special, where we are taking a look at science communication. During December, we'll have special episodes on Sundays, where we talk to fellow science communicators about their medium and experience. In January, we'll go back to our schedule and we will take a look at the research behind science communication. This episode is hosted by Imogen Hüsing and Sönke Löw. So sit back, relax and enjoy this week's episode.

Guest Introduction

0:34Hello and welcome to another episode of our Christmas special. Today, we're talking to Nicholas Wright. He is a neuroscientist who studies how the brain, behavior and technology shape conflict. He advises governments and major tech companies and his new book, Warhead, How the Brain Shapes War and War Shapes the Brain, was published this year in June 2025. Now, we want to talk to him about the process of writing a book and his experiences with books as science communication tools. Welcome.

1:04Hi. Well, thank you so much for having me on. And as in our usual episodes, we will play a short welcome game. Compared to our usual episodes, it's even shorter now. So we only have three questions. So I will start three sentences and we want you to spontaneously continue the sentences. And the first sentence would be, as a kid, I always wanted to be. Oh, a scientist. That seems like it worked out. I wish I could say something more interesting, but that's it.

1:36Basically, Newton or Nelson with my two heroes as a child. Yeah, there we go. Those are good choices, I think.

1:44The second sentence would be, currently I'm most fascinated by?

1:52Technology.

1:54Anything in particular or just in general technology? I think how humans can work with AI right now. I think that's a really exciting, you know, really exciting topic. And the third sentence is, if I was an emoji, I would be... I'm not going to say anything rude, even though obviously that's the first thing that popped into my head. So, no, a smiley face. A classic, yeah. Straightforward, yeah. I just, I'm not an emoji-using person, so that's why I have a really limited repertoire there.

2:31Yeah, but it's a classic. You can't go wrong with it.

Science Consumption Habits

2:37Yeah, before we dive into your medium of choice, books, we wanted to ask, what is the format of science you consume the most outside of your own research? Like, besides maybe papers you read for your own research or something like that. Yeah, I mean, it's, it will be academic papers.

2:58And then secondly, because nobody can, I mean, you know, I have a, I'm a neuroscientist and I'm a medical doctor. So I have those two areas that I understand, but I'm not a physicist, I'm not a chemist. And so I find that often I read things like, there's a magazine in Britain called New Scientist, which is a good general magazine. And that's quite, my kids love it as well. So, so I will read that, for example, or Scientific American. Often there's very good stuff in things like, you know, the newspapers, the Financial Times or the Economist.

3:30The Economist does very good, you know, summaries of scientific advances as well. Okay, so it seems like you are more on the, like, written side of things and you're not listening to podcasts and watching, watching documentaries. Not really about science, I have to admit, not really about science. It's more, no, I listen much more to audiobooks, which will be typically more about sort of history, politics, that type of thing.

4:04You know, when I'm unloading the dishwasher and that kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, I understand it because, like, I feel also that, like, if you have to understand something, it's much easier to read it, like, at your own pace. And you have, like, all the information at any point you want to have it. And if you're, like, explain something in an audiobook or something, and then if you didn't understand something, you have to skip back, like, 15 seconds. And the first 10 of those are, like, irrelevant to you. And then come the five that are, that you didn't understand the first time. And someone needs to, I haven't, I have not had time to look this up, but I was having this exact discussion, strangely, with a chap on a podcast who's a Navy SEAL.

4:40So, you know, the Navy SEALs, the people who are, like, the SAS would be the British version. They came before the Navy SEALs. The Navy SEALs copied the SAS, but don't tell the Navy SEALs that. And I was having a discussion with him about exactly this issue. And I actually think that part of it is when you're listening to, I remember information more clearly when it's written. And I think part of that is that you can read at your own pace. And when you don't quite understand something, you can slow down. You think this is going to be an important sentence. You can slow down.

5:11And a key thing that we do, you know, a key bit of cognition is what they call metacognition or thinking about thinking. And I think that it's much easier for me to engage my metacognition when I am reading something visually than when I am listening to it. Now, I think, I think, though, that in the not too distant future, and you asked what I'm interested in right now. And one of the things I'm really interested in now is in how humans interact with technology. And I think that in the not too distant future, unless, you know, things don't pan out as we anticipate, probably we will have adaptive audiobooks.

5:48So they will be, you'll be able to see, for example, EEG monitoring. How much are you attending? Can you stop it? Maybe you can use iFlex if you've got some kind of, you know, glasses on. There's lots of stuff. But I think we're going to have adaptive audiobooks in the future. How good they actually end up being is obviously a different question. But I think that that will be something. And then we can apply our metacognition better to audiobooks.

6:14Yeah, interesting perspective.

Writing a Book

6:17Now, maybe we can go to your book. Yeah, can you just tell us a bit about how you, what brought you to writing a book? And maybe also specifically, what brought you to writing this specific book? So my background is, perhaps I'll just give my background and then why I was, you know, and then whatever in this specific book. So my background, so I was a neurology doctor. First, I practiced medicine and, you know, treated patients with brain disorders in places like in Oxford and in London, the big research institute in London.

6:56And then I spent a number of years and I became fascinated by the brain, always was fascinated by the brain, but became even more fascinated. And I spent a number of years using functional brain imaging, so brain scanning, to look at how humans make decisions about things like rewards and punishments and social motivations and so on. And I did that at the lab that, you know, there was just an enormous number of exciting ideas coming out of that lab. It was just an extremely exciting time. Some of, you know, we had two of the five most cited neuroscientists in the world working in the lab and it was extremely exciting.

7:30Loads of great ideas. So DeepMind, so Demis and Sabis, both the people who won last year's Nobel Prizes for AI, they both were linked to the Institute of Neurology, that broader research institute in London. But I wanted to apply these really exciting ideas about the brain to real world problems, to thinking about like a really big policy problem. And so I wanted to apply it to security and in particular to nuclear weapons. And so I got a job in Washington, D.C., at a big think tank there and worked on decision making, applying these new ideas about the brain and how humans really make decisions, applying that to thinking about decision making with nuclear weapons.

8:15And that's central to how the American government or the British government think about and actually do their real life planning with nuclear weapons and actually do their nuclear strategy, is they think about how individuals and small groups of people make decisions. Right. And what affects that? So they were always really interested in cognition, in thinking about the brain. And so I moved to Washington, D.C., and I worked there. And that's when I started working with the Pentagon joint staff. And I've been an advisor with the Pentagon now for over a decade.

8:46And now I'm back in London and I do some cognitive neuroscience and I've published papers with people in China and I've done all sorts of different things. So I do cognitive science and also work still advising the Pentagon. And then about five years ago, I thought that one of the things that I had learned at the Pentagon that most people just don't know about. I think you're both in Germany or the German speaking world. I don't think most people in Germany had the faintest clue really about the realities of what was going on in the world in terms of the military situation.

9:17I don't think people in Britain, the masters of people knew what was going on. And so I really wanted to write a book. And it was about applying what we'd learned about the human brain, this enormous, exciting set of ideas, applying that to thinking about military conflicts to understand why humans fight wars and understand how, if we must fight a war, that we can win that war. And the reason why that mattered right now and why I wanted to write this book for a general audience, so, you know, I turned down the academic presses, I really wanted this to be a general audience, a book for a general audience where ordinary, normal people, intelligent, concerned citizens would understand it

9:51and would engage with that. And I wanted to write a book because what I don't think most people understand is that we could have a very major war now, for example, between America and China that could easily become a war of global scale involving Europe in the Middle East, another world war. I don't like that is literally what people are planning for in the American government and in the British government. And we could lose, right? There were long periods of time during World War II, for example, where the British were not winning, right?

10:25And we have to understand that we could certainly lose a war right now. And that is something that the majority of people do not understand. And I think we need to understand that. And just to put it into perspective, China now produces more manufactured goods, right, more stuff than the next four or even nine countries in the world combined, right? And they're not only going to have more stuff, they dominate drone manufacturing and all sorts of other things. They're not going to have more stuff. They now have more industrial.

10:56So Germany is very proud of its industry, right? China now has more industrial robots per thousand industrial workers than any G7 country, including Japan, Germany, Britain, France, or the United States, right? So if we fight another war, which is entirely possible, then we will not. And certainly if it becomes a prolonged war and wars between great powers often go on for many years, as World War II did for Britain, went on for six years. And, you know, we could lose.

11:29And I think we need to understand why humans fight wars so that we can try and avoid wars happening as best we can, although I don't think that's possible. And if a war does happen, we can stop it escalating, hopefully, as best we can, but that's not always possible. And if we must fight a war, we can avoid losing, which was very important in World War II. And hopefully we can win.

11:52So that's what I wanted to do with the book. And, you know, nobody, well, I hope nobody goes into writing a book, and I've spent years writing this book, and nobody goes into this unless they think there's something important to write about. And, you know, I think that if we want to make a more peaceful world, we have, you know, we're going to do that through enhancing our self-knowledge. So I think we are going to get, we can get to a more peaceful world by knowing ourselves as humans better. And that's what I wanted to help us do as concerned citizens.

Writing for a General Audience

12:26Could you maybe go a bit more into why you decided to write it for a more general audience, the book that you wrote? Yeah, I mean, so two reasons. So one is that, I mean, if you look, for example, books, it's because I think it's really important that a general audience understands these challenges. Right. And if you look at, you know, two, there are lots of people who I think do not look at the world in a way that is, it gives you a useful enough picture for making wise choices about what we should do with societies.

12:59So to give you to give you some examples of, you know, of two really prominent thinkers who I don't think see other humans as they really are. So Stephen Pinker. So if you look at, he wrote a book, you know, that was very prominent called The Better Rangers of Our Nature a little over a decade ago. That basically said, don't worry, guys, the arc of history tends towards peace. And so I mean, I'm obviously paraphrasing, but essentially, you know, it'll be fine.

13:33Right. But the thing is, is that he's not so much wrong. I think the arc of history does tend towards peace, but his idea is dangerously incomplete because wars do happen. Right. And they don't win themselves. People said equally powerful, scientifically plausible, you know, passionately argued, detailed, rational things before World War One. And then there was a cataclysm. Right. Or you look at Robert Sapolsky, who's a Stanford rather neuroscientist and primatologist. And he's, you know, he wrote a it was a lovely book in many ways, a wonderful book about neuroscience.

14:07And then he's like, well, so the way we're going to crack the problem of war, hopefully, is that everyone just needs to realise that war is bad and reconciliation is human. And I mean, again, he's not wrong. His ideas are dangerously incomplete. And I think that what we need as concerned citizens is to have a complete enough picture to be useful. Right. Now, that doesn't mean you need to know everything about war or everything about the brain or everything about AI or everything about anything. You can't know everything. It's impossible. You need to know enough that it's useful.

14:40And so I wanted to give people enough of a picture of humans and why humans fight and why humans win and lose wars to be useful. And that is really important because, for example, in in the mid 1930s, in the democracies in Britain and France, millions supported pacifism, disarmament. Right. And with the certainly with the benefit of hindsight, that was a catastrophe. Right. Because it enabled a deeply unpleasant German regime to build up massive armed forces that I mean, beat France and Britain in the Battle of France.

15:17So, you know, we don't want that to happen again, essentially. I'm not saying we're in the run up to World War Two, but that is possible. And we do need to think about these things. We need to think about them seriously. So concerned citizens on the one side. And the other thing I'd just say is that I write lots and lots of like, you know, dry reports and all that kind of stuff and academic papers. The things that people in actual really in the Pentagon and so on really are most interested in are things in big magazines like the Atlantic, you know, or this book.

15:52So, you know, the first briefing I ever gave to a general officer right in the Pentagon in person was to a brigadier general. And it was about a piece I'd written in the Atlantic, actually, about Iran and how we could, you know, why, how we could deter Iran, how we could send the right signals, how we could build peace and how we could think about Iran and nuclear weapons. And he spent an hour with me and two of his team. And we talked about, you know, the brain and and so on. And he then, you know, later on, he he very kindly wrote the foreword for a book I wrote about AI and international politics and so on.

16:28And when he was a major general and now he is the Supreme Allied Commander Europe, a chap called Alexis Grinkovic. He's a four star general in the US military. Right. And he is the Supreme Allied Commander in Europe. So the head of NATO. Right. Military head of NATO. And and, you know, that's the kind of guy that I want to inform as well. The general audience brought to these people so that so he can understand what it is that I know about the brain and hopefully do a better job at his job.

16:58Right. And obviously, I also learned from him as well. So those are the two things for concerned citizens. And also that actually dry academic books and, you know, policy papers are one thing. But often what gets through to really important decision makers is is the things more for a more general audience. And you already mentioned mentioned writing papers and reports.

Writing Process Differences

17:21How is the writing process between more like academic formal literature different from the process of writing a book that is accessible to people not researching in this particular field? Well, it's really different. It's really different. And it is so hard coming from more academic background. So it's like learning a different way of mode of writing. So, for example, I remember when I when I started off, you know, I've written lots of academic papers and published lots of nice papers and whatever.

17:51And then I went to Washington, D.C. and I had to learn a completely new way of writing and interacting, which was for a policy audience. And I then, you know, gain some, you know, reasonable capability at doing that kind of thing. But then you have to write then a completely different thing, which is how to write a book for a general audience. And again, you need a completely different mindset. So, for example, you're not writing for, you know, 50 people, which could be an academic, you know, an academic paper about some abstruse bit of the brain.

18:22You're not writing for 500 people or 5,000 people, but you're hoping to write for, you know, 50,000 people and people who are very, very different. So you can't hide behind jargon. You can't hide behind long, convoluted sentences. You have to be clear. It's the classic thing. If you can't explain it to your mother, you don't understand it. And it is true. And there were lots of things I realized that, you know, I needed to understand more. So it's a complete different set of skills. And so I had to learn those new skills.

18:54And I actually really enjoyed that because it's very much like a craft. It's like carpentry. You know, I don't know if you know, like building a really beautiful box and you have to learn the skills. Right. And when you have a nice if you learn carpentry, for example, and you become I'm not a great carpenter. I'm an utterly mediocre carpenter. But if you're a good carpenter and you join two bits of wood together and they interlock. Right. You don't even need to use glue. You just gently tap them together. And then that's that's kind of what you're aiming for, to become a craftsperson. And so that's a whole set of skills that I had to learn. And and I really enjoyed it.

19:29And if I could say one word that is also really important, in addition to like learning the craft. Is that is about story. So humans love stories. So you need to have tension. You need to have climaxes. You need to have cliffhangers. Right. People love stories. They love characters. They need to put a picture of the guy in their head. You know, he's a guy with a big moustache or he's like, you know, got a little military moustache or whatever it might be. Right. They need pictures, stories. And and you need to give people what they want, because ultimately people have to read my boring academic papers.

20:02Not that they're boring. They're very exciting. But, you know, they have to read my academic papers. Nobody has to read this book. And I wanted to make it exciting, genuinely interesting. So people would actually read it and they would want to turn over the next page and read a few more pages when they're lying there in bed, even though they know they should go to sleep. You know, that that type of thing. And so and that's that's a craft. And so that's what I try to learn. Maybe this is a bit more of a technical question, but it could still be interesting for our audience.

20:35When we looked into what you're doing and so on, we also found out that you were an editor for a couple of books. And maybe you could also go a bit into what the editing process looks like and maybe how editing is different from writing and how that also maybe supported your writing journey. No, of course. So, I mean, editing is editing is central to the process of writing. So, for example, you know, if I'd wanted to just publish this book three years ago, I had 95 percent of the facts and general arguments and ideas in the book written down.

21:15Right. I had I had almost all of it, but but certainly in one form or another. But but the key. But but it's very hard to write all of that down in a way that is compelling. And that requires writing it and then going over it again and again and again and again and again. So self-editing is enormously important. I'd be absolutely right. I've also, for example, edited to edited volumes. So that's where you get lots of scholars together. And I was the editor. And so I had an idea and then I would I wrote the introduction, for example, and the conclusions.

21:50And then I asked lots of different scholars, for example, I wrote a book on A.I., China, Russia and the global order. Right. And so. There I was asking people, so I'd written some articles and and then I turned that into an expanded that and turn that into a series of introductory chapters for this book. And then I got lots of scholars from Harvard and MIT and Stanford and Oxford and other places to add chapters. And and so partly it's about identifying those people. So finding out who is going to be good.

22:23And often I don't know, you know, if I knew all the answers, I could write all the chapters, but I don't. So you ask people and who's good and then they give you more names and then you gradually get a whole group of people who are really good. And so it's getting those people. It's very, very important to give them, you know, really clear instructions. So and this is always good for yourself to how long should it be? You know, you don't want a 10,000 word chapter if really it should be a 3000 word or 4000 word chapter. So it's really important. And, you know, you need to give people really clear instructions, knowing that a proportion of people will completely ignore your instructions.

22:59And that's fine. So then it's about, you know, you have to be tactful and nice. And and and the other thing is, is that you you like editing what they've written to make it clear. Also, you talked about how does that affect my writing journey? It's the classic thing. Like I know that when I write something the first time, the first draft of what I write. It's all clear in my head, but actually it may not really hang together that well and it may not actually be written that well.

23:34And there's loads of, you know, extraneous words that just simply don't need to be there. But when you're editing lots of other people's chapters, it's much easier to apply that thinking about thinking. So it's much easier to see when someone else is saying nonsense than when you're saying nonsense yourself. And this again, this comes back to I mentioned metacognition or thinking about thinking. And so I think it really helped me see my own writing more clearly when I had to go through and very gently, you know, say, you know,

24:06I think we need to alter this a little bit and make the argument clearer, you know, get rid of some of the jargon and so on. And so I think, yeah, I would say that editing, being the editor of those of those two books really helped me improve my own writing by, you know, making it really clear that the fact that something's clear in one's own mind doesn't necessarily mean that it's clear in someone else's mind. And somehow relating to that, I mean, the idea of science communication is that you have some knowledge gained through science or scientific process and you try to communicate that to an audience.

24:47But I think like very few things are a one way street in that way. So what is something that you learned like in the other direction? So what has science communication taught you? You know, in so many ways, for example, like I remember when I was fresh out of the laboratory and really properly, you know, properly been doing cognitive science and brain imaging and all the rest of it, you thought this is definitely really important for solving all the problems of the world.

25:18And then as you try and communicate it to people, you realise that what they need is how does this mesh with a lot of practical realities? You know, bureaucratic realities or so, for example, I remember I'll give you a German example. I don't know if we want more of a list of the German or not, but like Germany has like the coolest foreign ministry physically that I've been to. It's very cool. It's a lovely building. And then it's like a hipster cafe or there certainly was right in there.

25:49It's a very cool place. And I remember I went there in July 2014. This was just after the Russian little green men in Ukraine and so on. This is before the 2022 invasion. This is after the the the 2014, you know, where they took with the Russians to Crimea and so on. And I remember like speaking to this chap in the German foreign ministry. And I went to see who it was. And and I was like, so how do you think about how your actions will be calibrated?

26:22You know, how do you think about how they're going to affect Russia's decision making and how Russia is going to be making their decisions? And he was like, do you know what? We just don't really even think about that very much. And the reason is, is that it's so difficult to get all the different people within the European Union all aligned on how we're going to do these sanctions that we basically very little, like very little thought is given to what effect. This is really like making this a well calibrated response on on Russia. And and, you know, the thing is, in principle, one might know that kind of thing.

26:53And you might have read that in a book or read this. But then when you're actually there, you're sitting there in the and I was trying to communicate my really important, desperately important ideas to this German official to like make that, you know, make us all the world a better place and the rest of it. And I was like, you know what? He's totally right. And you have to think about these like hard realities. And and so whenever I think about these things, it's like that. So you've probably heard of Oscar Wilde, the the famous playwright and so on.

27:25And wait, he was a famous, like funny guy, like comic writer and so on. And Oscar Wilde said apocryphally, sadly, probably it's apocryphal. But he said the problem with socialism is that it takes too many evenings. Right. The problem with socialism is that it takes too many evenings. Right. It's just that it's a bit boring in the end. You don't want to spend all he wants to he wanted to spend his time smoking cigarettes and, you know, drinking fine wines and doing all sorts of stuff with all sorts of people. You know, so people don't there's just a very limited time anyone has.

27:59And that's one of the things trying to communicate my ideas from science and policy and other things to other people made me really understand that. Everybody has limited time. Everyone is most concerned with what's going on with themselves fundamentally. And so if I'm going to make a point, if I'm going to make a difference, if I'm going to make things better in some way, which I hope is what I want to do, make the world a better place, more peaceful place and all the rest of it. And then I have to make it digestible, really clear and and also acknowledge that, you know, it's got to fit in with everything else that these people have going on in their lives.

28:41And I think that's actually a really great sentiment to wrap up. We have some final questions. But yeah, to to wrap up the portion, we talk about your your work.

28:57Yeah. So if any of our listeners would want to get into writing, book writing, are there any resources, any books you could recommend to them?

Book Recommendations

29:09Yeah, I mean, so if you want to write a book, then so I think the first thing is writing. It's just it's a skill. And I know people use a lot of, you know, ChatGPT or Claude or whatever, but I mean, I think you need to you need to write and you need to edit and you need to learn a variety of techniques. And it's a craft like any other. And I, you know, I I was a neurology doctor. I could go around and tap people's reflexes and all this stuff. But I mean, that doesn't help you craft a sentence that is nice.

29:41So so it's about learning those skills. And there are lots of good books for that. Um, but then there's also another book. There's a great book I read called Storycraft. Um, and that really helps build the stories within your pieces or within, um, I think Jack Hart, I think was, I have it somewhere in my office, but, um, Storycraft. And I found that very helpful. Um, and then there's the, and then there's the editing process. And there are lots of good books for that again. Um, another Jack Hart wrote another one, uh, which was called, uh, Wordcraft,

30:15which is about polishing. So story is the important thing or the narrative drive and the, the really big things. Like Harry Potter, for example, is not the most beautifully written book, but my kids love it. And I read it when it came out. And the reason is, is that it's just very, it's very compelling story. And you like the characters and all the rest of them. Um, so I think they were very good. And then there's one other book that I found really good later on in the process, which was, uh, by, um, you know, uh, Stephen King, the chap who wrote it and, and so on.

30:46And he wrote a really good book called On Writing. And I found that very helpful a bit later in the process, because it's just, you realize it all looks very effortless, but then you realize the absolute agony this guy goes through to make it seem effortless. And it sounds very cliched, um, but that is good. Oh, and Zinsa On Writing is very good for a lot of the craft as well. So these are not like rare books, but I found all, all four of those books. So Zinsa On Writing, Storycraft, Wordcraft, and then Stephen King On Writing.

31:21I found all of those useful books. Great. And are there any, um, other science communicators, I don't know, TED Talks, um, podcasts, uh, books, whatever, um, that you enjoy that you would, um, that our listeners should check out? Oh, that is a great question. I, I, so I have to confess, even though I'm on a podcast, I don't listen to that many, um, I, well, I listen, I'm, cause I'm British, even though I do a lot of work with the Americans.

31:52I listen to a lot of BBC things and I absolutely love In Our Time with Melvin Bragg, which, uh, is very good. Um, and I think that is an exemplar of a lot of things you're talking about, because I don't know if anyone listens to In Our Time, there are a thousand episodes now. It's basically this British guy and he just gets two earlier on, but three for the majority of the time, three academics on to talk about a topic. One week, it could be, um, uh, like, you know, the life on other planets.

32:23Another time, it could be the concept of zero. Another time, it could be about medieval German history. Another time, it could be about, you know, some, uh, ancient Indian text, right? And no one can be an expert on all these things. And he just elicits a really good explanation for what's going on in a way that is interesting and informative, but also, you know, really well-grounded in facts, uh, for an audience. And so I, I, yeah, I'd say that is brilliant. Um, I, I, I love that.

32:55And over a thousand episodes now. Um, so that is very good. Yeah, that, that sounds like a really good recommendation. I've actually never heard about that, but I definitely have to check that out. It is genuinely. So if you want a topic, if there's any topic and you just want a quick thing, see if there's a, cause they're about 50 minutes long and it will give you a really good primer on that top. The battle of Trafalgar. Oh, there's one on that. You know what I mean? It's just, it's really good. And they're all top academics. So there'll be from Largsville or Cambridge or my university, UCL or somewhere.

33:27They're all, dare I say, Germany. Uh, no, I'm joking. I, I was, I, I was at a Max Planck. I was funded by the Max Planck Institute for a while. So I'm very grateful to German, uh, academia. Um, but, um, it's just brilliant. It's just an absolutely, uh, brilliant, wonderful, and it's just lovely. And he obviously is genuinely interested in all of the topics. And that's also nice. It's just nice to see. It's nice when someone is genuinely interested in, in, in things.

33:53Yeah. Uh, then I would say thank you so much, um, for joining our podcast. And, um, the very last point, um, is where can people find you? Yeah. Uh, so I'm on, um, LinkedIn, uh, Nicholas Wright, uh, I'm on, uh, X. So Nicholas D Wright, um, I'm on the internet. And, and, and obviously most importantly right now, um, the book, uh, uh, Warhead, uh, is in all major bookshops in, you know, uh, U S, uh, Britain and so on.

34:25I think to all of those things can be found in the, in the description of this show. So, uh, people really should have an easy time finding. Amazing. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Brilliant. Thanks so much. This was Kaleidoscience. We hope that you enjoyed this episode and we would love to have your feedback. You can rate our podcast and give us feedback on our Instagram account. Have a great week. And you'll hear from us again in two weeks. This episode was hosted by Imogen Hüsing and Söhn Gelöf, produced by Imogen Hüsing, Clara Kühne,

35:01Sophie Kühne, Söhn Gelöf and Elisa Palme. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder and the logo is from Annika Richter. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder. The music is from Jan-Lukas Schröder.