Richard III's traumatic childhood

Introduction to the series

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1:39Hello and welcome to this episode of the History Extra podcast. And today, we've got something a little bit different for you. So, here to tell us more about exactly what that is, is Matt Elton. Matt, what have you been up to? Hi, Ellie. Yes, thank you so much. So, we have been hard at work here at the History Extra podcast on a brand new series. It's called The Full Story, and we've called on some of the leading names in history to tell us about some of the past's most compelling and most important moments. Everything from the sinking of the Titanic to the rise of the Nazis.

2:11And I believe you're starting with one of history's most contentious figures, Richard III. We thought we'd just dive in right at the deep end and talk about Richard III. Obviously, as you said there, he's controversial in some quarters. He definitely divides opinion. We'll be exploring in this series how his tumultuous upbringing shaped his reign, and whether or not we're any closer to discovering exactly what happened to those princes in the Tower. You can find the answers to those and many more questions over the coming weeks. And so, today we've got episode one of four for listeners.

2:43If they want to hear the other three episodes of the series, how do they do that? That's right. So, this first episode is available to everybody, but if you want to carry on listening to the series, you'll need to find it by searching for The Full Story, because the podcast is a membership exclusive. And how can people listen if they're not yet a member? It's all very straightforward, and we've included all the details of how to sign up and how to find out more in the description of this episode. And it's not just the series, as you say, on Richard III, is it? What else can we look forward to?

3:14So, yes, we're starting with Richard III, but then we are moving on. We're dropping episodes weekly, and we're going to be exploring topics including the Reformation, the Titanic, as I said before, the rise of the Nazis, and many more besides, including the Crusades and the rise and fall of Richard Nixon. And so then, from one Richard back to another, let's get into today's episode,

Introducing Richard III

3:35all about Richard III, and to guide us through that, over to my colleague, Spencer Mizzen, in the studio. Richard III is surely the most divisive king in all of English history. More than five centuries after he seized the English throne, took his young nephews into custody, and then rode to his doom at the Battle of Bosworth.

4:08The arguments continue to rage over his reputation, and they're showing little sign of abating. But what was Richard III really like? Was he the pitiless, scheming killer of the princes in the tower, portrayed by William Shakespeare and others? Or was he a loyal, courageous, enlightened monarch, one who's had the misfortune to fall foul of one of history's great character assassinations? I'm Spencer Mizzen, and I'm joined by Chris Skidmore,

4:39a leading historian of late medieval and early Tudor England, to discuss the controversial monarch's life and legacy. Chris is a former MP and Minister of State, and he's written a number of books on Richard III, including the forthcoming The Innocence in the Tower and Anatomy of a Mystery. So, settle back, set your time machine for the late 15th century, and prepare to immerse yourself in one of the great dramas of British history,

5:10because this is the story of Richard III. In this episode, we are kicking off by asking how Richard's traumatic youth, one in which he witnessed war, rebellion, and the brutal death of his father, shaped the man and the monarch that he would become.

5:35Chris, I was wondering if you could give us an insight into what it is about Richard during your career that you find so fascinating. What makes him such a kind of compelling character to a historian like yourself? Well, I think, you know, looking back, I sort of ride two horses, really. I've been a historian, and then I became a politician. I've always been fascinated by reputations, and Richard is someone whose reputation

6:07is incredibly divisive. There are two clear camps between those who think that he was ruthless, and we'll talk about sort of, you know, how he made his way to power, and those that obviously sort of feel that history has done him an injustice, and that actually he was kind of more beloved and a personality than history's made out. I think also blending sort of both politics and history together, it's that question that history is written by the winners,

6:39and, you know, what we've seen with Richard is someone who, as a result of his reign, it led to the Tudor dynasty, and the Tudors were the first dynasty, really, to utilise history as a weapon, and I think sort of understanding and deconstructing that sort of reputation about sort of, you know, who decided that Richard's personality was going to be sort of written up in maybe a different way than actually was the reality. You know, we're still unpicking that now five centuries on,

7:10and so it's an enigma that I find fascinating, but also to make sure when we look at sort of taking a professional approach to history, we don't sort of replace a black legend, as it were, with a white legend. We understand Richard and looking at the reality of the sources, the reality of the time, and making sure we give as true a portrait as possible. He's not captured by any one of those two camps. Okay, and in this episode, we're going to delve into Richard's early life until the death of his brother,

7:41Edward IV. I wonder if you could give us an insight into what England was like when Richard was born, because I think it's fair to say that this wasn't a country that was at ease with itself.

Childhood and the Wars of the Roses

7:55Yeah, that's right.

Childhood and the Wars of the Roses

7:56So Richard is born in October 1452, and right around that time, we've got sort of several political currents developing. One of them is that sort of England as an international power is on the wane. You know, it's beginning to lose the Hundred Years' War against France, it's just lost this territory of Normandy in 1450, and that's creating a sort of crisis of confidence in politics, and in particular, in confidence with the king, Henry VI. And Henry VI has been on the throne for quite some time,

8:2730 years by the time Richard is born, and people are beginning to sort of realise that his kingship is not what they'd hoped. The king has suffered from mental instability, and that is beginning to have an effect on sort of the wider sort of leadership and the nobility, who are the sort of backbone of power and meant for support the king and beginning to get restless, partly because they want to be waging war in France on winning, and they're not winning. And they're beginning to look around for potentially another candidate,

8:59and actually, it's Richard, Duke of York, Richard's father, who is then seen as the potential rival. I don't want to get into the dynastic sort of rivalry here between House of Lancaster and why Richard, Duke of York, thinks he has a claim to the throne, but essentially, York comes forward and for a while is a protector of the realm while Henry is sort of recovering from mental illness, but he eventually tries to claim the throne. And this sort of creates these two camps, really, what we call the Wars of the Roses. That's a bit of anachronism because that phrase

9:30wasn't invented to the 19th century, but the sort of the House of Lancaster versus the House of York. And it's at this point where Richard is born into this sort of instable period. And he very much his childhood is marked by uncertainty and instability as civil war begins to break out. So can you tell us a little bit more about Richard's father? What influence did he have on the young Richard? It's really interesting when we look back at sort of Richard's

10:00early life before he became king. And there's a number of points where we can see that even though Richard mustn't have known his father very well in person. I mean, his father died in 1460. Richard would have been eight years old. He spent most of his time with his mother, Cecily Neville, and then was sent into exile, a point when his father died in battle. But he clearly had an impact on Richard's understanding of what it was to be a successful military general. And actually,

10:30Richard in 1476, so when Richard's about 24, he actually is responsible for taking his father's remains and reinterring them in their family mausoleum. And he sort of does this sort of 10-day journey. And then in the epitaph, he talks about sort of his father being like a military general called Stilicho, a Roman military general. He's obviously got this sort of sense that York, Richard, Duke of York, was an incredibly successful general

11:01in France in the wars and the Hundred Years' War, and saw him then, so idealised him as a result. Just for a bit of extra context, can you tell us a little bit more about the Duke of York's death and how that impacted on the young Richard's life and also the wider situation in what we now call the Wars of the Roses? Yeah, so I mean, York ends up dying in a sort of odd situation where potentially there might have been treachery. He was told into a sort of

11:31castle up in the north and essentially murdered in some way. But I think the most important thing for Richard was obviously the consequences of York's death almost accelerated the progress of then, sort of York. There was obviously no going back after that. And it was actually his elder brother, Edward, who then sort of took up the mantle of York. York obviously tried to take the throne, was unable to get the support and it's almost like York is John the Baptist almost for sort of coming forward and Edward, technically Earl of March at the

12:02time, decides to revenge his father's death by teaming up with Richard Neville, supposedly the Warwick, the kingmaker, the Earl of Warwick and they end up winning this battle in 1461, the Battle of Towton. Yes, can we talk about that in a bit more detail then? Because like you say in 1461, Edward wins his battle, it's an extraordinary bloody battle at Towton. Richard returns to England to attend the coronation of his elder brother who's crowned Edward IV.

12:34Edward has, I guess, a reputation as being quite a sort of muscular ruler, quite a capable king. What was Richard's relationship like with his brother Edward in the early years

Loyalty to Edward IV

12:48of Edward's reign? So, obviously he is a younger brother and there is another brother, George Duke of Clarence, who is the sort of heir to the throne. So, often Richard goes unremarked as a result. But Edward provides him with bows and arrows, there's payments to show that he's helping him to train up to be a soldier, warrior soldier. I think, you know, Richard coming back from exile, he's no one abroad and suddenly he's then one of the princes and Edward makes him Duke of Gloucester, gives him all these lands,

13:19you know, clearly wants to establish him as a major lair to sort of help secure his dynasty. And I think, you know, Richard is always devoutly loyal to Edward, unlike George Duke of Clarence. But sort of, you know, what's really interesting is they sort of Richard's motto eventually is loyalty, me lie, which is like old French for like loyalty binds me. And he does have this sort of devout loyalty to his brother, thick and thin. He follows him through all the twists and turns of his reign. Tell us a bit more about Clarence then

13:50because he's quite an interesting individual in this period as well, isn't he? Yeah, I mean, we have this throughout history, you've got the sort of heir to the throne and the spare and there's a couple of sort of people like sort of Edmund Duke of Rutland who dies and sort of as a result Clarence is left as the heir to the throne and sort of feels slightly hard done by Edward. He really wants to marry Richard Neville of Warwick's daughter, Isabel, and Edward sort of says, no, I'm not having this. I can see where this is going. It's going to end up with you getting a huge amount of land, power base. And eventually

14:20Clarence begins to feel quite disenfranchised, sort of teams up with Warwick and whether it's his personality, whether it's genuinely that he feels aggrieved, he begins to sort of take a different route and, you know, along with Warwick turn against Edward. There was this split between the brothers, you know, there's supposedly the three sons of York, this sort of one of the battles at Mortimer's Cross, they see this sort of three sons and it's actually a weather phenomenon called hypothalian where basically snow crystals create the three sons in the air.

14:51But for people who didn't know that at the time it was seen as a symbol from God that you had these three brothers and that one of the chronicles talks about them being like a, when they work together like a tight knot together. But then they fall out and, you know, Clarence and Warwick get really annoyed with Edward about his marriage to Elizabeth Woodville which is basically another sort of split that then sort of this new dynasty begins to fall apart. So tell us about Warwick then because him and Richard had crossed paths on a number of occasions

15:21hadn't they when Richard was a young man during the Wars of the Roses. How did that relationship evolve? Yeah, so Richard Neville of Warwick called the Kingmaker because he was a Lancastrian he'd swap sides to support Edward and was very much like a father figure a sort of patron and Richard and George Duke of Clarence sort of put into Warwick's household. So Richard even though he was sort of born in the south in Northampton is then taken up to Middleham Castle and this is where Richard's reputation as being a sort of lord of the north

15:52emerges that he basically grows up in Warwick's household must have been a really influential figure I think sort of on him in terms of geographically as well as seeing what power looked like and there was sort of evidence of Richard sitting around the sort of dining table with all these noblemen and Warwick was known as someone who put on enormous feasts sort of lavish generosity I'm pretty sure Richard would have seen this and seen the sort of dynamic of actually how you can build an affinity how you can

16:23get people to support you so I think emotionally it would have had a huge sort of impact and Warwick actually tries to not just marry his eldest daughter Isabel to George Duke of Clarence he then also says well maybe I can marry my youngest daughter Anne Neville to Richard and again Edward refuses so that's that's an early stage where Warwick clearly sees in Richard somebody who could become a potential son of cultivated yeah sure okay so you've mentioned Warwick's rebellion against Edward IV

16:53so this is an event that kind of turns Richard's life on its head again and Edward is ousted and Henry VI is reinstated how did that affect Richard what role did Richard play in helping Edward eventually regain his throne

Exile and military success

17:13from Henry

Exile and military success

17:14so this is like a really sort of complicated period where there's sort of various twists and turns but you know essentially Warwick and Clarence join forces and Warwick gets his way and marries his daughter Isabel to Clarence they then decide to like join forces with France Margaret of Anjou Henry VI wife yeah they basically bring her out of exile they bring you know they manage to defeat well they didn't defeat Edward but they basically send him into exile and he decides to flee to Burgundy to the Netherlands

17:44and Richard joins him and goes with him and they've got nothing there's like they're penniless and like one of the chroniclers Philip de Comunis talks about how basically Edward has to give like his fur coat he's wearing on his back to the ship sort of master to pay him off and Richard sort of goes around raising sort of troops for Edward and it's this first test I think where you see that sort of obviously Clarence decides to back Warwick and back Henry VI totally bizarre that he would like you know give up his own sort of claim to the throne to potentially put this sort of hapless Lancastrian

18:14back on the throne it's called the re-adaption period but Richard decides you know put all his chips on backing his brother Edward never forgets this sort of act of loyalty and they come back you know they come back in 1471 and Edward along with Richard they fight this battle of Barnet in April 1471 Warwick's killed in the battle Richard for the first time and he's only I think you know at this age 18 he's put in charge with the vanguard the front of the battle

18:45and it's his first real test as a military leader and he succeeds you know this is someone who there's lots of talk about Richard being sort of you know crouched back or small but he is a phenomenal military general and he proves himself in his first test to basically sort of win this battle and you know the Lancastrians are routed and and then within just a couple of weeks they then travel across England

19:16to the west country and fight the second battle of Ballot-Tewkesbury where again Richard is highly successful and it's a phenomenal turnaround really but sort of yeah Richard is there every step of the way with his brother this episode is brought to you by Indeed you're ready to level up your business but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load it boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs get a $75 sponsored job credit at

19:47indeed.com slash podcast terms and conditions apply hiring now then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs does anyone know where the bass is hey Bose here when your next track starts listen for the decisions that the artist makes the vocal pushed right up front the bass that waits half a beat that sample from a 70s underground gem every choice deliberate with Bose

20:18you'll hear it all your music deserves Bose whenever fall comes back around it always feels like a fresh start this year I've been layering in some styles from the new lululemon fall drop because the weather is shifting and I find I have to be ready for the entire day and not just one part of it lululemon's fall line has some really versatile transitional pieces so I can just wake up throw on a matching set add a jacket or a fleece and head out knowing that I'll feel comfortable enough

20:50to go wherever the day takes me check out the new fall arrivals in store and online now at lululemon.com so it sounds like the first 18 years of Richard's life I mean extraordinarily eventful traumatic turbulent full of highs and lows do we get any sense from the sources how this extraordinarily turbulent first 18 years affected him as a person is there anybody who sort of shared time shared a room with him

21:20sort of tell us what he was like as an individual at this point well the sources are very sort of thin on the ground there's a couple of glimpses I think of Richard's you know that come through from the sources there's a manuscript of a French courtly romance where it talks about the knights in endeavors and sort of winning the love of a lady and sort of basically chivalric feats in battle and Richard sort of writes in the margin tant

21:50the desiree I have longed for it so much there's a glimpse I think of that sort of like young man who's wanting to prove himself in battle to basically demonstrate sort of that he is able to meet the expectations that society generates of him but he is someone who goes and remarks in the shadows until this point I think in 1470 where he suddenly comes out to life and then what is really interesting is then that's when some

22:21of the sources begin to sort of like written slightly later on pick up on Richard and begin to sort of blame him for things so when you say sources later on how much later are we talking well you're talking between sort of 10 to 15 years a lot of them after his reign but people are beginning to use him as a sort of lightning conductor and I found that really interesting is that sort of Richard did his brother's sort of bidding but he is potentially blamed for the death of Henry the sixth son

22:52Edward Prince of Wales on the battlefield at Dukesbury I mean early sources talk about him sort of just being killed in battle and then later sources talk about Richard sort of slaying him in cold blood at the end and Henry the sixth himself also is found dead in the Tower of London in May 1471 and the early sources talk about it as being sort of Henry having died of grief and displeasure of learning about his son having died later sources talk about Richard like stabbing

23:23him with a knife and so it's interesting I think at this point that sort of the legend of Richard begins to develop as well you mentioned earlier Anne Neville and Richard was married to Anne Neville in this period as you just said they were introduced by Warwick how did their relationship evolve and as far as you know were they happily married so again within the complexities of the sort of this 1470 1471 re-adaption period Anne is at first married to Edward Prince of

23:54Wales Henry VI son so she's married already and then obviously she becomes a widow but she's still very young like 14 so and I think Richard what I find really interesting is his ability to identify straight away what he needs to do to be able to consolidate power and he sees in Anne somebody who potentially is going to help him extend his power base because she is going to bring with her all these sort of Neville lands that Warwick is dead

24:24Isabel is still alive the elder sister who's married to Clarence Clarence is like forgiven by Edward and so Richard says right yep the other one I need to marry and I can have Warwick's lands can be split between myself and Clarence and Clarence is like hang on a second I wanted all the lands to myself so they had a massive fallout between the brothers over this so-called Warwick inheritance and it's a lot of land it's a lot of money involved here and actually Richard apparently steals Anne away one of

24:54the sources of Crowling Chronicle talks about hiding her away dressed as like a kitchen maid so that Clarence can't find him as Clarence is desperate to stop Richard from marrying Anne and eventually he manages to sort of hide Anne away manages to get a papal dispensation to marry her and Edward allows it to take place and he has this formal separation of the lands that sort of isn't great it basically disinherits Warwick's wife and sort of to basically give all the lands between the two

25:24brothers like Richard inserts himself he basically decides that I want Anne and I want her lands and I'm going to have it and so the couple whether they married for love who knows at that time it was money and power that mattered they don't actually have a child for quite a few years afterwards Edward of Middleham but they seem to also share quite a lot of tastes around religion they have shared books that they read they're quite into piety and some

25:55of the guilds and the sort of Corpus Christi processions in York they go and watch these together so yeah I think there is sort of a relationship there but to start with he marries Anne because she's going to bring with it land and power

Rule in the north

26:09okay Chris I'd now like to talk about I guess in the context of the late 15th century a time of relative stability and peace when Edward IV is fully re-established on the throne I mean this period I guess finds Richard