A Platoon Leader's Perspective - Interviewing WWII Paratrooper 1LT Andrew Carrico of the 511th PIR

0:00You're listening to Down From Heaven, a podcast that covers the history of the 11th Airborne Division from World War II through today. I'm your host, Jeremy Holm. Thank you for joining me today. Let's jump right in.

0:30Okay, today is September 30th, 2010. We are here at the Simmons Media Radio Stations, located in Salt Lake City, Utah. And we're here today to interview a World War II veteran, Andrew Carrico III, and who's visiting here from Venice, Florida. His name is Andy, but he is also my grandpa, so you might hear me call him Grandy throughout the interview.

1:04Also in the studio today, we have his wife, Grinny, Jane Carrico, who will also be participating in the interview. And we have also Jane's daughter, Candy Holm, and I am Jeremy Holm. Again, these are my grandparents. So let's go ahead and get started. Andy, are you ready? Ready. Perfect. And if you could, for the record, could you state your full name? Andrew Carrico III.

1:35And which war did you serve in? World War II. World War II. And which branch of the service? Army. Army, okay. And what was your rank when you were discharged? First Lieutenant. First Lieutenant, okay. Now, before we talk about your service, we'd like to get a little background, maybe a little history. When and where were you born? I was born in Washington, D.C. I was born in Washington, D.C. In October, 1917.

2:06Okay. So did you grow up in Washington, D.C.? Went to high school in Washington, D.C. I went to a couple years of college in D.C. I never finished, though. Okay. What was life growing up for you? What was it like? Well, I was, excuse me, I was born in the middle of the Depression, so times were hard for most people.

2:37Actually, they're not too bad for us. My father worked for the federal government as a prohibition agent.

2:49So he kept busy. He was after the bad guys. Yeah. So we didn't have it too bad, but that was generally what we went through. Okay. What were maybe some of your hobbies growing up, some of your interests? Mostly sports. Yeah? Particularly baseball. And that's about it. I went to a Catholic high school, although I'm not Catholic.

3:19And, consequently, most of my friends are Catholic and still are, or those that are still living. And that's about it. Just for the sake of curiosity, what positions did you play in baseball?

3:36Usually third base. Okay. Great. Great. Okay. So, what were you doing with your life in the years leading up to World War II? Well, mostly looking for jobs.

3:51I had quite a variety of them. And finally, I went to work for the Western Electric Company, which is part of the build system. And that's why I was working when I got drafted. Okay. So you were drafted, you didn't? I was drafted. That's right. Okay.

4:10Now, when you were drafted, when you got that first letter, what were your feelings? Well, it didn't make much difference, really.

4:23Drafting was a law of the land. And so, you know, I followed the law.

4:30I got two weeks' notice to get ready to go and finally went. Okay. Now, if I remember, you were doing the ROTC program before you were? No. Oh, okay. Okay.

4:44Where was your first assignment? Or where did you do basic training? Oh, I was drafted in the first draft in Montgomery County, Maryland, in February of 1940. No, no, 1941.

5:05And I went to Fort Meade, Maryland. And from there, I went over to Fort Knox, Kentucky, where I took a basic training.

5:16What were your first days in the service like? Busy.

5:23I think I reported to the draft ward at 7 a.m. And by 9 o'clock that night, we had finished all the, what they give you to do, you know, the physicals and so forth. And so, we hadn't eaten all day. And finally got to Fort Meade at about 9 p.m. at night. And they fed us and went to bed. That was it. You're probably pretty tired. Huh? You're probably pretty tired. Yes, exactly. Excuse me.

5:54What were some of your other experiences in basic training? Well, maybe I should ask, what were some of the things that you went through? What was basic training? Okay, basic training, as I say, was at Fort Knox, Kentucky. And that was 13 weeks. And we were taught how to march, how to obey orders, and actually shoot a gun and things like that.

6:31Do you remember your instructors?

6:34Vaguely. Are you trying to forget them? No, they weren't too bad. Yeah? We had a corporal who was in charge of us, 10 of us. And he was a nice guy. And it wasn't too tough. So, it was all right. Okay. Now, you were a private first class during basic training? No, just a private. Just a private. Okay. Making $21 a month. Wow.

7:03Now, were you at Fort Knox when Pearl Harbor occurred? Yes. Yes, I was. Can you tell us about that? Well, we had big maneuvers in Carolina and Louisiana. And at that time, I was in the 1st Armored Division. And I was a messenger on a motorcycle. And strangely enough, I'd had a motorcycle accident just about a month before Pearl Harbor.

7:36I broke my foot. So, I was in the hospital for a month with a cast on my foot. And when Pearl Harbor happened, I was out of the hospital and in my barracks when it happened. And I didn't even know where Pearl Harbor was. I'd never heard of it. So, it didn't mean too much at the time. Except for the fact that the Japanese had attacked the U.S. So, actually, I was ready to get out of the service because I'd been in that 10 months because it was just tested for a year.

8:18Oh, okay. But that stopped everything. Yeah. So, your initial draft was just for a year of service. That's right. But after Pearl Harbor, did it become for the duration? Yes, that's right. Okay. What were the feelings on base after Pearl Harbor occurred? Very patriotic. Extremely patriotic.

8:45I guess everybody that I was associated with the service, they were mad as hell. You know, that's the Japanese. And that was a feeling. Yeah. Okay. So, you were in the hospital for a month when Pearl Harbor occurred. Is that when your basic training ended? So, you had the 13 weeks. Where did you go after basic training? I went to the 1st Arbor Division, which was stationed at Fort Knox. Okay.

9:16So, I didn't go anywhere other than a different locale. And that was it. Yeah. Now, was it at Fort Knox that you went to Officer Candidate School? Yes. That was in 1942, and I've forgotten the exact time.

9:42I'm sorry. Everyone was allowed to go to OCS if they wanted to, if you passed the test. Okay. And we all had to take tests and be interviewed, and the 1st Arbor Division, right away, went to Europe. So, I didn't go, because I went to OCS instead. So, it may have saved my life. Who knows? Yeah. All right. Okay. What was, so, you took the test and you passed, and you got into Officer Candidate School.

10:17Right. What was OCS like? Tough. Really hard? Really hard. And, three months, as I recall, and, you know, the term 90-day wonder. But, we were taught, everything I can think of, we were taught. Map reading, such as I do with the motives of track, tanks, and first aid.

10:56Everything you can imagine, we were taught. So, it was 90 days. 90 days. And, so, that's where the term 90-day wonder comes from. That's right. Okay. Okay. Now, after OCS, what happened when you finished OCS? Okay.

11:15First of all, you had to pass.

11:19There were some people who did not pass. I did. And, I was assigned to the 5th Arbor Division in California. Actually, I asked for that, because I've never been to California. So, I thought you'd go see the sights. Yeah.

11:35And, yeah, I went to the 5th Arbor Division as a second lieutenant. And, I don't know, it was good. There were just a lot of pleasant females around. I wasn't married, so. Yeah. Now, what did you do, as a second lieutenant, what did you do in the 5th Armored Division? Okay. What were some of your responsibilities? I reported into the 5th Armored Division. I was assigned to the 34th Armored Regiment as a second lieutenant.

12:11And, they put me in Company B. And, I reported to the company commander. And, he says, okay. He says, tomorrow morning, you want to give a class on 155 millimeters. I'd never heard of them. I quickly got out of the book and read all I knew about it. But, I got through it somehow. Learn fast. Yeah. Okay. And, then, I went to usual company requirements.

12:44And, you know, like, close or drill to teaching other people things. And, I've had different assignments. And, finally, I got promoted to first lieutenant. And, my job was, I was a regimental and community cases officer, which I hated. So, I didn't like it at all. So, in order to get out of it, I volunteered for the parachutes. Okay. Well, I want to talk about that in just a second.

13:15But, are there any, before we move on, are there any experiences from basic training or officer candidate school that you remember that you want to share? The OCS was tough. You were busy all day and sometimes all night.

13:34It was not fun. But, you know, if you wanted to become an officer, you had to do what you were told. And, I can't remember any specific things. You know, but, it was, it was, the toughness just started. Because, when I became an officer, you were expected to know things, you know.

13:59You were in charge. That's right. Now, you said that you volunteered for the paratroopers. How did, how did you hear about that opportunity? Or, what made you decide to do that? Okay, they, it was sort of like the Air Force. They were accepting volunteers from either the Air Force or the parachute troops. And, probably some others, I don't know. It's like something was going, they showed the voting board. If you wanted to volunteer, you did something.

14:33That's basically how I heard about it. It was, I knew I couldn't go to the Air Force because my eyes were not that good. So, I didn't have, uh, real expert vision. Okay. So, that was a requirement for the Air Force. Okay. Okay. So, I took the rest of the two evils and went to the first. So, now. Additional money.

14:59Additional money. Oh, baby. Did that help your decision? A few more dollars a month? It was an extra hundred dollars a month. Oh. So, considerable bit more. Yeah. Now, you went to jump school in Fort Benning, Georgia. Is that right? Do you remember your first days at Fort Benning? What was it like?

15:22Well, let's see.

15:28The jump school at Fort Benning was really tough. It was four weeks. And, uh, they, I think they tried to make you quit, really. That's my opinion. So, it was really tough. Physically and, and not too much mentally, but mostly physical. Yeah. Um, what, what was, um, so, so, so jump school was hard. What were some of the things that you were all training on or, or practicing or even learning? Uh, the first, uh, the first, as I say, it was four weeks.

16:01The first week was nothing but physical.

16:05Extremely hard runs. Uh, I've forgotten some of the times. Push-ups. Oh, it was always push-ups. You know, anything wrong with, you give me 25. So, uh, and, uh, as I say, the first week was just physical. And, as I said before, I think they tried to make you quit. Second week was, uh, uh, I see, still physical, but the, you had a destruction on packing the chute.

16:41For instance, you pack your own chute, and at the end of the school was, you made five jumps. Every one of them was a chute you used to pack yourself. Oh, wow. So, I can imagine how long it took. I bet you were very careful in packing your chute. Absolutely. The third week was, uh, uh, that was the high towers. They had 250-foot towers, which you still use today at Fort Benning, and they hauled you up with an open chute, and they got to the top.

17:14They somehow or other released you, and you came floating down. That was the, uh, the height. But they had one other, one other course. You climbed up a 35-foot tower, which was about as high as this house, I guess. Okay. And jumped out attached to a cable. And that, that particular one wiped their war people and anything else. Really? The 35-foot one? Absolutely. Wow. Because you could look at it, and there's nothing but the ground, you know.

17:47You don't know what the cable was going. Uh, what was it like the first time on the 250-foot tower? Scary. Yeah? Uh, but after the first couple ones, well, you know, you got to, you knew it was okay. It was safe. I don't think they ever had any fatalities there. Okay. So after the 250-foot tower, what, what happened next? Okay. The fourth week was, you actually jumped out of a plane. As I say, you made five jumps, and you qualified.

18:20Uh, I believe it was, yeah, one, one jump per day. Okay. You'd stay out of a plane. Yeah. And they, they had jump masters there that, great as you and all that. Now, I, I've heard that if you hesitated in the door, you were done. Is that true? Absolutely. Because you've got a whole bunch of people behind you. Oh, okay. See, we had, uh, the officers jumped out first, and with, behind you were enlisted men, also

18:56going through the jump school, but behind you. So it was up to the, up to you to, you know, show you, you weren't afraid or anything else. Now, the, the, didn't they call, uh, the, each group of paratroopers in the plane a stick? Yes. Is that right? A stick? Okay. How many, how many jumpers were in a stick? Uh, it could be as many as, uh, uh, 20, I think. I've really forgotten. Okay.

19:27Uh, I think that's the usual term, but I, I really have forgotten that. Okay. Do you remember what, what plane, what kind of plane were you jumping out of at the time? Uh, C-47s. Okay. Which is a great plane. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. It's the forerunner of the DC-3s, which, I don't know if you may have heard of them, was a great passenger plane. Yeah. Yeah. Um. Now, on your first jump, I have to ask, what, what were you thinking as you were taking off?

19:59I was thinking, I must be nuts to do this. Uh, but, uh, you, you, you weren't carrying any equipment or anything, uh, which we'll get into later.

20:14But it was nice. It was jumping at the, I think it was a thousand feet. Okay. And you just, nice, sunny day, and once it's open, you knew it was safe. Yeah. And that was it. Wow. So, uh, so you were scared at first, and once you jumped out, you were okay. Yeah.

20:33That's great. Okay. Let me find my place in the questions here. And you said you had to take five jumps to earn your wings. Right. Okay. Now, after Fort Benning, and you completed the four weeks of jump school, um, where did you go next? Okay. There was still Fort Benning, uh, was put in a pool of officers. Must have been a hundred officers in this pool. Mm-hmm. And as the various divisions, parachute divisions, needed, uh, replacements, they, they used them at this pool.

21:08So, I, frankly, I'm, well, I'm going to leave, and, uh, I frankly got tired of sitting around not doing anything. So, they came out one morning with, they needed so many officers to, uh, uh, parachute division in North Carolina. And so, I volunteered, and which turned it to be the 11th Airborne Division. That, you were our first lieutenant at this time. Okay. Okay. Uh, and then, so you went to North Carolina, to the 11th Airborne Division.

21:39Um, how long were you in North Carolina?

21:43Well, uh, okay, I was with the 11th Airborne Division for the whole war. Mm-hmm. And we were in North Carolina for maybe six months, and then we went to Louisiana. And then, we went overseas. Okay. Now, in, in Louisiana, that was, that was a, uh, there were maneuvers and training exercises, right? Right. And the 11th Airborne, um, let's see here.

22:16Okay. So, you, you were in Louisiana, um, for staging. Um, what happened after Louisiana? Okay, um,

22:27We went from Louisiana to, uh, San Francisco, for the embarkation, for travel overseas. How did you get to California? Just curious. Train. Train. Uh-huh. How long was that ride? Very long. Yeah. It was a tube train, and it wasn't much fun. Yeah. They didn't, they didn't, they didn't have bumps and stuff like that, you know. Um, so, but after we got to California, it was okay. Yeah.

22:58Well, I, I thought it was the Navy they tell you to join up to see the world.

23:04So, and, you got to California, and, is that where you disembarked for the Pacific? Uh, yes. We were there about, uh, 10 days. Okay. Um, we didn't, we just, didn't have much to do, close order drill and things, just, you know, things to keep you busy. Mm-hmm. And we were restricted to the base. Oh. Oh. Supposedly. A lot of guys. That was the engineer boots. The engineer boots. And that's where we got mixed up with the engineer. Now, you were, during a break, you were saying that, as a paratrooper, you got special boots,

23:39and you were allowed to parachute, or, your pants, you were able to balloon your pants out. Yes, that's right. And that was an honor. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. So, uh, if you want me to tell you about the engineers, I will. Definitely. There's an engineer regiment there. Uh, for some reason, they wore a jump boot, and that was just a spark that ignited with them. They had fights all over the place. Of course, the paratroopers didn't like that.

24:11They wanted to, they attacked the engineers and take the boots off them. And even the officers got into it one night. In fact, a good friend of mine was, who was a former heavyweight champion of the Army, we talked him into fighting one of the, one of the engineer officers, which they did. Mm-hmm. And, uh, he got in a lot of trouble with that. Really? Yeah. Carol's wing.

24:42Yeah, the, yeah, the commanding general of the limb there, born to, he was furious. One of his officers would get in a fight, you know. Mm-hmm. Uh, so he had actually transferred out of the paratroopers. Wow. Which cost him $100 a month. Into the gliders? What? Was he, did he go to the gliders? Yeah. We had a glider regiment. Okay. And the division had two glider regiments. Okay. Now, so your division, there were, there were two, um, paratrooper divisions, then two gliders.

25:15Just one. Just one. Okay. One parachute regiment and two glider regiments. Regiments. Okay. And the gliders, I felt sorry for them because they got no extra money and that was very dangerous. As it turned out, you know, a lot of people were killed from crashes and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. Um, let's see. So, after, after California, um, what happened? We went on, went, they got on a, a merchant marine ship to go.

25:48They took a cruise.

25:50S-S-C Pike was the name of the ship. And the whole regiment got on the, the, the, the ship. Okay. They carried all of us. Uh, two meals a day. Um, food was horrible.

26:09And, uh, it took us, I think, uh, almost a month to get to where we were going, which is New Guinea. Oh, wow. You didn't know at the time. Oh, no. No. Um, what, what were some of the things that you ate on board?

26:24I, you know, I can't remember, but it was lousy. I was going to say two meals a day, breakfast, I guess, and then dinner. Okay. You finish one, you start another one. So, it was bad. Yeah. Um, what, what was like, life like on board? Or do I, what did you do the whole time? Well, there wasn't much to do. You, uh, we had to, uh, we had to be on deck at 4.30 every morning before light, which is, they, I suppose that's the best time for submarines to attack the ship.

27:00You know, we, we went over by ourselves. We had no convoy or anything else. So, you had a lone ship out there. That's right. Okay. So, um, we got up at, uh, had to be on deck at 4.30 the morning. So, uh, that, uh, that caused us some problems because getting everybody up and the enlisted men were in, like, five levels down. Um, and they weren't bunks. They were five, five bunks high, stacked up. Wow.

27:31Uh, not good at all for them. Luckily, I didn't have to do that. Because you were an officer. That's right. So, where did, where did you stay? Where was your, your room? Let's see. We were bunked in the, I guess, second deck or something like that. Had our own bunk. We were in double-decker bunks. And, uh, hot as a devil and, you know, it wasn't really fun at all.

28:06Did you have any trouble with seasickness? No, no, I didn't. It was pretty good as far as I'm concerned. Yeah. So, about a month, um, now you mentioned you were headed to New Guinea. Yes. And you didn't know until you reached New Guinea, or did they tell you on the... They told us sometime on the way over. Okay. Maybe when we passed the equator. I'd have forgotten which way. But, uh, we had no doubt. We weren't, uh, they didn't tell us. So, we didn't know.

28:36Yeah. Now, back when you were in, in, uh, when you first, um, were transferred to the 11th Airborne, um, did you know at the time that your division would be heading to the Pacific Theater? No. We didn't even know when we left Louisiana where we were going. Okay. So, when you got on the train, you didn't know? No. Okay. But, I was about to guess, and you could tell it was the way to the train. Yeah, we're heading west, and, yeah. Um, now, what happened when you reached New Guinea?

29:09Okay, um, we got off the ship, and, um, the battalion I was in was picked to unload the ship. So, we had a big, long line of people passing stuff out, you know. And, uh, along the way, a lot of it got stolen.

29:30Now, there's a story about that. Wasn't it that somebody asked General Swing about the missing items? Yeah, he's, uh, somebody asked about, they called him General Swing Steve, I think. And, he said, my boys would never steal anything. And, I don't know, I don't read a lot of that. They stole everything they could. Especially things to eat. You know, like, certain juices, orange juice, and stuff like that.

30:02They disappeared. You know, when you said they were the angels.

30:07I know.

30:09Now, that's right, the 11th Airborne was known as the Angels. Where, where did that come about? Was that... That came about, um, on Luzon, when we were in battle. When they had, we liberated a prison camp. And the, the nun, a civilian prison camp. Uh, 2,000 prisoners were there. And, uh, the, uh, and there's some nuns there.

30:39And they, uh, they saw the people, the paratroopers coming down. And they said, oh, they're angels from heaven. And, uh, that's how they got their name. Okay. Now, and I do want to, I want to talk more about that story, maybe a little bit later. But, did you, did you have any nicknames for yourselves before that? Or?

31:03I can't think of any. Okay. Okay. So, you reached New Guinea, and you helped unload the ship, and helped yourselves to a few items. What happened after that? Okay, it took about a week to get the ship unloaded. Wow. Okay. And, uh, we went to an area in New Guinea for, uh, we set up camp. Mm-hmm. And, uh, we were there about, I don't know, six months or so, and just jungle training.

31:38Okay. And, uh, there were a few natives there, uh, but we didn't go near them. You couldn't get close to them because of the smell.

31:55I don't think they ever took a bath. Okay. Now, you're talking, did, did you have any interaction with the Philippine, like the guerrillas, or? No, not there. Not the guerrilla fighters. Okay. Okay. So, during those six months, you said jungle training. What were some of the things that you did for jungle training? Um, well, it was a good place for jungle training because there's nothing there but jungle. And we had, uh, certain things that we did for, uh, like I had, uh, uh, I was a platoon leader,

32:30so I had platoon exercises and, uh, simulated action, you know, things like that. Uh, uh, using live, live ammunition. Uh, and we had a few jumps.

32:44Uh, so you practiced, uh, jumping into jungles? Right. Okay. What was that like? Uh, it wasn't too bad. You know, uh, we, I don't think we had any, any problems with that when, because there's a space picked out to land in, you know. Uh, we weren't jumping right in the trees and so forth. Ah, okay. Um, so, coming back, you, you mentioned you were a platoon leader.

33:14What, what were some of your duties as a platoon leader? Well, but, uh, but, uh, excuse me. Well, the platoon and the paratroopers consisted of, uh, I think it was 35 men. Okay. Three squads. Two rifle squads and one mortar squad. Okay. And, uh, uh, platoon headquarters, there's your radio operator and, uh, uh, messenger and things like that.

33:45Um, uh, what was it, what you said, what duties? Yeah, what were your duties? I mean, what, what did you do? Well, in the training, I guess, just take charge of the platoon. That's basically. Did you have any administrative responsibilities? Not really. Well, one of them which I hated was, um, censorship. We had to censor all the mail.

34:16And the officers censored the listed men's mail. And I don't know who censored ours, but somebody. Now, for those who might hear this interview who don't understand why, why did you censor the mail? Well, I was orders from the Army headquarters. Okay. They didn't, we weren't, they didn't want anything to get out as to where you were or what you were doing. Okay. Now, because back in the States, there were actually spies. Is that correct?

34:47That they're worried that the letter might reach their hands. They'd know where your division was. Absolutely, yes. Okay. Okay. Now, um, after, after your six months of training, um, in New Guinea, what happened next? Okay, we, at that time, um, MacArthur had landed in an island called Lady, which was supposed to be, you know, easy, easy island to capture, but not that way.

35:18The Japanese made a stand there. They poured into our 100,000 troops to defend Lady. So we were picked to, uh, in November, the, the, the original landing on Lady was in October. In November, we got on a, uh, uh, Navy, Navy ship and sailed up to Lady to embark there. Uh, uh, the 11th Airborne was, or the 511th was picked to, uh, after we got off, after we landed, was to, uh, and we landed in, uh, in attack mode.

36:00Climbed on nets down the sides of the ship and got in these little boats that held them by a platoon. And by that time, uh, there was a big, uh, aircraft, uh, air, air war battle going on. So we had front wall seats. Wow. And, uh. So, so you, you landed on the beach. You didn't jump into your first combat. No, we didn't jump. Okay. We, um, um, spent 31 days there.

36:34It rained every day. Miserable. Um.

36:41We had a long time without things to eat. And later on, we, uh, we went, uh, a whole week and nothing, nothing, nothing to eat. Because all our resupply was by air. Of course, we were up in the mountains. Okay. And, uh, they couldn't get in with due to the weather. So, uh, too much rain, too many storms, and the pilots couldn't fly through. Uh, the, uh, what saved us was the, uh, Piper Cubs, the small planes.

37:13Those are the, the single prop planes. That's right. Okay. It's a real small plane. Mm-hmm. And those pilots, they'd fly over us and just push the cartons of food out. Uh, first man of mine killed was hit by a ration box. Really? Hit him right in the head, coming down. Wow. Now, you mentioned there was, wasn't there one where a Piper Cub dropped you a box of chocolate? Is that right? Or? Well, chocolate's all shaving cream.

37:43Oh. Because nobody shaved. Yeah. It just threw it away.

37:48Um, um, now when you, maybe we can come back to when you, when you hit the beaches, you mentioned there was, there was the air battle going on. So, did you have air and naval support when you were hitting the beaches? Okay. Yeah, we, as we were on a Navy ship, which was nice, we had a nice meal the night before, you know, like steak and stuff. And, uh, we, they, they did a good job. The sailors treat you pretty well? Yeah. No fights? No.

38:19No. We weren't made as a Navy.

38:23Yeah. Um, so you landed on the beach and you had 31 days of fighting in the jungle. Is that where the famous rat's ass charge occurs? Now, I, your unit's famous for that. Could you maybe tell us about that? What the rat's ass charge is? Okay. Um, as I say, we'd been there on a lady, uh, 31 days. And this was in November and December. It wasn't cold. But we were wet all the time. Okay. And you, uh. So it was probably difficult to keep your foxholes empty.

38:55Oh, definitely. But the Red Cross, I just don't know the side of it. Red Cross had knitted a bunch of sweaters. So they gave us the sweaters. And they were really fantastic. Keep you warm. Okay. Keep you dry. Yeah. They were really good. But anyway, the rat's ass charge was, uh, we were coming to the end of the campaign because we had done what we were supposed to do. Uh, what, what was your initial, um, what were your initial orders?

39:27What were, what were you? Okay. We were supposed to follow a Japanese, uh, supply trail. Okay. And disrupt it. But basically, that was it. Okay.

39:40And to get back to the rat's ass charge, this was happened on the, I think, Christmas Eve. Very close to it. And, um, for some reason, we, uh, we couldn't break out of the mountains. They, they stopped us every time. So, um, D Company, which I was in, was picked to, uh, lead this particular day, Christmas Eve. And it just so happened, my opportunity was this leader.

40:12So, uh, we were very successful. Killed about 300 Japanese and broke through the, the, the line of defense that we had. So, um, we were very successful. Wow. That's amazing.

40:31Oh, the rat's ass charge. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. John Battori, one of my machine gunners, uh, we were advancing up this trail.

40:42And he was a machine gunner. So he grabbed the machine gunner and held it and started firing, being handheld. And that seemed to start the route, as you recall. So, you know, the Japanese were famous for sleeping late. So this is early in the morning. Okay. Like, but before daylight. Mm-hmm. Just before. So we caught him by surprise. And it was a very successful route.

41:11Wow. Now, now, somebody yelled rat's ass. Yeah. And that, when you were charging. Uh, I'm not sure who yelled it. It may have been Battori. Okay. He was a, um, he was a soldier that, uh, was a great soldier in combat, but it wasn't worth a damn. And, uh, in, in the... Over night? Yeah, every day. Oh, okay. He was always in trouble and stuff like that, but really showed his middle when he...

41:43Right. But he came through when he... Came through. Yeah. He actually, um, stayed in the service and became a, um, command master sergeant, which is the highest, uh, enlisted rank you can achieve. Okay. Now, we'll, we'll talk later, um, when you were wounded, but after you were wounded, he thought you were killed. Is that correct, Battori? He thought you would die. Until years later, you... That's right. Many men have a reunion, and he thought I'd been killed.

42:14Wow. Um, now, now you mentioned life in the jungle, um, very wet, right, lots, lots of rain, and, and, um, you mentioned not having a lot of, of supplies and so forth, and then there was the, the rat's ass charge. Is, is that when you ended that campaign and came down out of the mountains? Yes, we came out of the mountains. That, or Christmas Day, I think it was. Okay. And, um, a little aside there, the, um, the regimental commander, who was incidentally killed

42:50later, a full colonel, um, he promised the regiment, he says, would you get back to the beach where we had the best Christmas dinner you ever had?

43:02Um, and he did. We had turkey and dressing and ice cream, and, and everybody got sick if we ate it, because the stomach couldn't handle it. Uh, because you'd gone so long without. That's right. And everybody got sick, including me. Oh, no. But, uh, anyway, I was just a little aside there. No. So, so you came back to regimental headquarters, and then, yeah, well, that was your Christmas. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what, what happened when you, when you came back to regimental headquarters?

43:35You spent about a month there, is that right? Oh, you mean after that was over? Yeah. Um, well, we didn't do much, because. Well, did you do anything for Christmas? Did you celebrate in any way? Yeah. Yeah. We didn't even get mail in those 30 days. Really? Yeah. Oh. And, of course, not much food.

43:58We spent, uh, let's see, that was Christmas Day, and then our next mission, we would prepare for the next mission, which was Luzon. So, we didn't do much, just, you know, sat around, took it easy, you know. Suntanned a little bit. Yeah. Went swimming and stuff like that, and then, uh, then we finally sailed. We took off from Lady and went to Illinois.

44:31Now, that was in January of 45. That's right. Okay. So, you were in the jungle in December of 1944. Right. Okay. Okay. And so, then you, you, you sailed to Luzon? No, we sailed to a little island called Mindoro. Okay. There was no, no, no fighting there, but that's where we were going to take off the jump on Luzon. So, you were preparing for a combat jump? That's right. Okay. Um, then, and that was, where did that occur?

45:04Or, or what was your first combat jump? Oh, on Luzon. Luzon, okay. Island of Luzon, which is the main island of the Philippines. Okay. And, uh, anyway, uh, uh, back to just a little aside. Mm-hmm. After, we got an LCI, which is a landing craft infantry ship. Okay. Run by the Navy, uh, on Lady. So, they took, uh, we had a whole company, plus another thing from the company, regimental headquarters.

45:42And we took three days to get to this little island of Mindoro. And myself and another officer, we both played bridge. So, a couple of Navy officers were on board there, and they played bridge. So, we stayed up all night and played bridge for three days. Wow. Drinking their coffee, you know. We had good hosts. That's right. So, the answer to a little something happened, I remember. Um, where were we?

46:13Um, we were, you landed on Mindoro? Mindoro. Mindoro, okay. Um, when you landed on, on the island, did you set up camp, or was there already a camp? No, we just, uh, we slept where we were, you know, on the ground. Okay. There was no action going on, so we didn't have to worry about that. Okay. I think we were there two or three days at the most. Mm-hmm. And then we took off in planes for a loose arm.

46:44Okay. Now, so, Mindoro, you were, that was your, your base you took off for your combat jump. Was this the first jump that you had made with all of your equipment?

46:57Uh, overseas, you mean? Well, back when you were in, in jump school, did you do a jump with full equipment? Okay. So, here in Mindoro, was that the first time doing? Yes. What, what kind of equipment did you wear? You had your parachute, of course, but. Two parachutes. Okay. Your reserve occurred a, what they call a reserve chute, which is right in front of you. Okay. Their, um, main chute was on your back. Okay. Uh, plus, you carried your weapon, uh, three days rations.

47:31Um, ammunition, uh, about 50 pounds of, when you got on a plane, you were 50 pounds old.

47:43It's a little bit of weight. It was really a pleasure to get out of there. Yeah. Yeah. Um, when you, now, you took off, um, what were your feelings as you were flying towards Luzon? Well, uh, frankly, for me, I was worried, uh, concerned, but made sure we jumped at the right time, you know, in the right place, which, uh, is a lot easy, because sometimes the, the, uh, ground looks different than you're up in the air, you know.

48:13So, uh, that was my concern. I got out at the right time, and, uh, all about 25, 35 men behind me, you know. But, because you had to gather them up when you, once you landed, they were. That's right. Yeah. Plus, I also had a mission, uh, when we landed, uh, uh, company commanders gave me a mission of going to little jeopardy's town about 10 miles away, and, uh, making sure there was

48:43nobody there, or no, no enemy there. So, we had to, after I gathered the men up, we had to start walking. And so, uh, because we had no, uh, parachutes don't have any, on initial jump, you don't have any transportation, you know. So, the way we jumped on Luzon was a place called Tegaitai Ridge, which is overlooking a lake.

49:13And so, um, the airborne landed by, on ships prior to our jump. And we jumped ahead of them, and then met up with them, you know. Okay. So, that was, that was the air, the divisions of, um, uh, objective. Okay. Now, that was the, the group that landed, that was the, the glider regiments? Yes. Okay. Okay. And so, you met up with them.

49:43Um, did you pick the ridge because it was the high ground, or was it a strategic? Well, let me answer that to say, I did not pick it. You true? The generals picked it. They told you, go there. That's it. Yeah, that's right. You were right. There was a, uh, it was an extinct volcano. Okay. Actually. And, uh, so we landed, which is, I used to say a high ground, overlooking this lake. Now, when you were heading towards the Japanese village, did you encounter any of the natives,

50:18any of the people who lived there from Luzon? No, I didn't encounter, didn't see any natives until we got there at this little town. I don't remember the name of it. And, and no one knew, uh, Japanese either. So. You had a nice little walk in the jungle.

50:35Actually, it was on a paved road. Oh. Yeah. Was, was that on the highway? Is that right? One of the highways. One of the highways. Okay. Okay. So you, you, um, let's see. So you went to the village and there were no, um, Imperial Japanese forces. Right. Uh, what happened next? We just stayed there, um, uh, set up, uh, uh, different places of the platoon, different

51:08parts of the town that they guarded. And, uh, we stayed there about, I don't know, half a day. And then we were told to come back while radio. So then we started walking back. So you went back to the ridge? The ridge. That's right. Okay. Now, I, I forgot to ask, when you were, um, after you, you came down off the mountain, um, back in Lady, did you receive replacements?

51:41Or? Oh, yes. You did? Okay. We received, got replacements for the people that had been killed and so forth, you know. Yeah. And you, you carried your wounded as well off the mountain. That's right. Yeah. Okay. Um, so, so coming back to Luzon, you, you came back to, and how do you say the, the ridge again? The? The Gaetai. The Gaetai. Yeah. The Gaetai Ridge. Okay. So you came back to, to Gaetai Ridge. Um, and then where did you go after that?

52:11Well, we were, our objective was Manila. And that's the capital city of the Philippines. Okay. Um, the, the vision was picked, we were in southern, uh, Luzon. The 1st Cavalry Division and all the other, the big divisions in the army were in northern Luzon. So, um, it was actually a race to who kept there first. Yeah. Uh, uh, uh, 511th was picked to lead the 11th Airborne.

52:49Our regiment was picked to lead, oh, how did I say that? Um, the regimental commander picked the company, which I was in, to lead the, the regiment. And, uh, the regimental commander picked my platoon to lead, so I'm out in front of everybody. I think he had his eye on you. Leading the waves into Manila. Wow. Yeah. Um, and that was pretty much constant fighting. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

53:20Um. Uh, I might, uh, let's add a little bit, Jeremy. Sure. Um, uh, Luzon was very much like the understates. They had paved roads, two lane highways, and things like that. No jungles. It was all city. Okay. So, I just wanted to say it. So, it was more urban warfare than jungle warfare. And, had you trained for that, or were you, did you train mostly for jungle warfare? Well, if you're, you train for jungle, but you, you've got the other thing, too, you know.

53:56So, it's quite different. Yeah. Now, that's, that's when you, you broke through the, the famous, is it the Ginkgo Line? Ginkgo Line. Ginkgo Line. Ginkgo. Yeah. Can you tell us about that? Uh, Japanese, uh, I'll back up a little bit. Back when the Japanese invaded the Philippines, MacArthur declared, uh, Manila an open city. In other words, he did not defend it, because he didn't want the city to be demolished.

54:30Okay. The Japanese did not do that. They defended it. They defended it with, um, five-inch naval guns, turned the other way, toward us, which they sound like a freight train when they're going over, you know. Yeah. They really make a noise. Um, where were we? The Ginkgo Line? Oh, yeah. And the Japanese sent up this, what they called a Ginkgo Line to, and they, to defend Manila.

55:03Manila was a crucial city for them. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. And so they did it with pillboxes, uh, which is sort of like a little fort, you know. And, uh, and a lot of, a lot of, uh, heavy, uh, heavy, uh, guns, things like that. Yeah. Yeah. So. Um, so you, you fought for a month and a half, right, to, to get to Manila.

55:37Is that right? And then how long was the battle for Manila itself? Well, the month and a half, I'm not quite sure what you mean there.