Michael Arden

Introduction

0:00Everyone who worked on that show believed 100% that if we could just get people to see it, that it would melt any heart that came through the door.

0:15From the TED Audio Collective, this is Design Matters with Debbie Millman. On Design Matters, Debbie talks with some of the most creative people in the world about what they do, how they got to be who they are, and what they're thinking about and working on. On this episode, a conversation with Michael Arden about his career in the theater and about some advice he once received.

Michael Arden's Career

0:39He said, any decision you make, you should be afraid of. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet?

1:09Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC.

Sponsor Message

1:19This episode is brought to you by Bill, the intelligent finance platform that helps businesses and accounting firms scale with proven results. With AI-powered automation, Bill removes the busy work from your accounts payable workflow. They handle capturing invoices, routing approvals, and syncing with your accounting software so that your team can focus on growth instead of paperwork. Bill is so reliable, according to Bill, 98 of the top 100 accounting firms in the U.S. trusted to simplify and secure their bill payment processes.

1:55Bill's handled over a trillion dollars in secure payments and is ranked number one overall on G2's 2025 list of best accounting and finance products.

Bill Sponsor Message

2:08So stop the guesswork and start scaling with the proven choice. Go with a company whose financial infrastructure is trusted by nearly half a million customers. Ready to talk with an expert? Visit Bill.com slash proven and get a $150 gift card as a thank you. That's Bill.com slash proven. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details. This episode is sponsored by Kohler Smart Toilets.

2:39The objects we interact with most are often the ones we notice least. The Kohler Smart Toilet challenges that assumption. What if the most overlooked space in your home could become the most considered? Their Veil Smart Toilet is a sculptural silhouette that isn't just intentional. It's a philosophy that design changes everything. The Kohler Veil Smart Toilet is sleek with a rounded shape that's more like architecture than just plumbing. And it goes beyond looks.

3:11The touch screen controls and customizable cleansing features offer a level of comfort and cleanliness that exceed expectations. It's all about elevating those ordinary daily rituals into something extraordinary through thoughtful design. Kohler has been pushing these boundaries for over 150 years, mastering that balance of stunning form and high-performance function. That's a long time to get it right, and it shows in every detail.

3:42Experience the difference of Kohler Smart Toilets. Find out more at Kohler.com.

Michael Arden's Background

3:48Michael Arden builds theater that asks us to listen differently, see differently, and pay closer attention to one another. Over the last two decades, he has moved through film, television, and theater, first as an actor, and now as one of the most celebrated directors working in theater today. He has created productions that hold intimacy alongside spectacle and humanity alongside extraordinary craft. From spring awakening to parade, from maybe happy ending to bringing the lost boys to the stage, his productions return again and again to questions of belonging, connection, and what becomes possible when people truly feel seen.

Early Theater Experiences

4:34Michael Arden, welcome to Design Matters. So happy to be here with you. Michael, is it true that one of your earliest adult performances was starring in a Domino's pizza commercial? This is true, yeah. It was one of my first jobs out of after I left school. Living in New York, a very broke actor at the time, so I was very happy to get that job. And were you a Domino's pizza fan, or are you still one now? I was not. I mean, I do partake. My husband is a huge Domino's fan.

5:05Really? Uh-huh. Good to know. But I'm a Papa John's guy. I happen to be a big fan of Gotham Pizza, which is a pizzeria in Chelsea on 9th Avenue, and they have the best crust. Well, let's be real. Like, all these brand names pale in comparison to basically any, like, New York slice. This is true. So I say that with an asterisk of, like, this is not my favorite pizza, but of the, you know. Of the. Of the. Noted. Moving on to somewhat more somber questions.

5:38Your father died when you were two years old. Your mother struggled with drugs and alcohol. As a result, when you were in fifth grade, you went to live with your grandparents, who provided you with safety and stability for the first time. That's awfully young to have gone through so much trauma. Well, you know, I think as kids, like, I never thought, like, oh, my life is rough or anything like that. It was just like, it's just what it was. Yeah, it's amazing what we learned when we were older. It is amazing. And then looking back and you sort of have to be told, that wasn't normal.

6:12But then again, like, what is normal? And I feel so lucky that the good things and the people who did show up for me, like my dad's parents, my grandparents, their names were Pat and Jim. Moore. Pat and Jim Moore. My birth name is Michael Moore. I changed it for obvious reasons. But, yeah, I mean, I feel so – for the amount of what could be considered as, like, hardship, the amount of unbelievable gifts I received, shadows, anything negative, I'd say.

Grandparents' Influence

6:43What did you learn from watching how your grandparents moved through the world? I learned some things that I want to strive to do and some things that I want to strive to not do. The good stuff would be to help people, to go above and beyond and to assume responsibility even in moments when you might not feel like it's your obligation. I think that's been something they taught me. I mean, they didn't have to take me in. They didn't have to take such care of me and provide me, and they certainly did.

7:13And had that not happened, I wouldn't be where I am today. And so I'm very grateful for that. And I also – you know, we inherit our family's shortcomings as well. You know, I think I want to worry less than they did, but I don't. I was going to ask you for tips. Yeah. No, I haven't figured that out yet. And they, of course, grew up and lived in a different time and place. And, you know, Southern Baptists who grew up in the Deep South during the Depression, really, were born Depression babies.

7:47So, you know, having to kind of learn how to not save pieces of tinfoil in the same way. Yeah. Metaphorically. Yeah, no, I can relate. Absolutely. I know your grandparents took you to see Sesame Street Live when you were very young. I think you were about four years old. And you said it was revelatory. How so? I couldn't believe that a different world, one that is seemingly imaginary, could be presented in front of me in the real world.

8:19I think something about that, that, like, through the proscenium that was created in the Chaparral Center, which was like our, you know, the sporting arena in Midland, Texas, they set up shop. And this portal of the proscenium created a magical world that was three-dimensional, that if I wanted to, I could have run up there and touched. Something about that, more so than, like, going to the movies or anything I had witnessed prior, like, really blew my mind.

8:51I couldn't believe it. Something about the depth of that, the dimensionality of it, that something that is imaginary existed in the same dimension as something real. It's magic. Oh, my God. I'm still obsessed with it. I just came today here from watching a put-in understudy rehearsal, It May Be Happy Ending, and I'm still mesmerized by it. Oh, I can't wait to talk to you about that play. That play. Oh, I can't wait. But I hope, you know, it's like, it's that kid. I have a picture that I guess one of my grandparents took of me watching that show.

9:23And I have my hands clasped together as if in prayer, and my eyes are just, like, enormous. I'm looking at the stage, like, in wonder. I keep it on my desk because I never, ever want to lose that. Yeah, that's when you became you. Well, yeah, and it's when I'll become not me if I lose it.

Transition to Directing

9:43Yeah.

Transition to Directing

9:43At 10 years old, you play Tiny Tim in A Christmas Carol at Midland Community Theater, and you've said that that's a place that was life-changing for you. 100,000%. How so? How did you find, and how did you find your way there? Well, my grandparents, I think, took me to see a show, Big River, there. I saw Sesame Street Live, but then this was, like, the next thing I saw, which was a narrative piece. So then it was like, okay, then here's the next step.

10:13Not just this dimensionality magic, there's also story. Oh, my God. Mind blown yet again, and I fell in love with it, and so I wanted to see everything. And there was a youth theater group called the Pickwick Players that I had to wait what seemed like an eternity to be old enough to audition to be in. And then I got in, and, you know, it just, that changed my life, I would say. I think it, like, probably saved my life. I mean, I grew up with my mom, and we lived in a trailer park, and she had struggles.

10:45She had me when she was 16 years old, and I had struggled with drug abuse and alcohol when I was a kid. And so once I found this place, it was where I was. If I wasn't in school, I was at the theater, even if I didn't have to be. I'd hang out in the lobby. I'd work on the lights. I'd spend a lot of time in the lighting booth and up in the grid. I mean, that's, and so it's interesting that that's now become part of my life. Or I would work in the costume shop, or I would, I was in the play, or I would stage manager.

11:19Anything I could do to be there. And I think partially because I loved it, and partially because it felt like a home. It felt like a safer place for me, probably. In retrospect, it was, like, a place I knew I would be taken care of. And I was, like, the first one there and the last one to leave all the time. And I did so many shows there, and that really, I think, solidified both my love of the theater, my interest in the craft, and in a way, like, my discipline for it.

11:50Because I had incredible mentors and teachers there. In high school, you played the role of the club pianist and understudied the show's lead character, Franklin Shepard, in a production of Merrily We Roll Along. That's pretty risky for a high school play. Well, it was Interlochen Arts Academy, so it was, it wasn't just, like, you know, your average public school production. But, yeah, looking back, I mean, to do Merrily in high school. And coincidentally, I understudied Benjamin Walker, the lead in American Psycho,

12:24and has gone on to do, like, many other amazing things, but I understudied him in that show. And I got to later direct that show at the Wallace Annenberg in L.A., and I certainly took a lot of my inspiration from that high school production. I mean, that show's amazing because it's, like, about young people and about, so I hope I get to do it again so I get to, like, do it, revisit it at another point in my life. Yeah, I'd love to see you do that show. I saw it recently when it was on Broadway, and I hadn't seen it before, and I had read a lot about the fact that it was one of Sondheim's sort of technical failures at the beginning, you know, that it wasn't something that people were seeing.

13:05Exactly. They didn't realize the brilliance. Yeah. I just was absolutely mesmerized by that. Oh, it's an amazing piece of writing. But when I read that you did it in high school, I'm like, what? Yeah. It took, like, decades for it to get back to Broadway, and you did it in high school. Isn't that funny? How did you get to Interlochen? How did your grandparents even know about a school like that? I had a choir teacher at my school in Midland, Texas, named Diane Wisnand, and she put a poster up on the choir room wall about Interlochen Arts Camp.

13:39Interlochen is both a boarding school and a summer camp. And she said, this is a really cool place. I mean, I thought, oh, my God, they do musicals there in the summer. You auditioned for it and be around artists all summer. I mean, it was like utopia going there. I made friends I still keep in touch with every day. My chief collaborator and creative partner was one of my friends from Interlochen, and I still speak to him every day, and we produce together.

14:12And, you know, we're always returning to ideas and dreams and questions that we had when we were there at school. That's Dane Laffrey? That's Dane Laffrey, yeah. These things that we think about and are chasing and become interested in as young artists, I think, like, carry with us. Very early on, theater wasn't only a performance for you. You mentioned just hanging around and wanting to be near the theater. You also helped build sets. You were designing the lighting for your high school production of Jesus Christ Superstar.

14:44I did the sets and the lights for that production, just to say. Duly noted, correcting the record, lights and sets. And sets, yeah. So what interested you about making the world as much as inhabiting it, as acting as well as lighting and sets? Well, I think you go see a play. Images imprint upon your mind, and if mixed with story and emotions so that they are connected, when image is connected to catharsis or despair or hope or joy or feelings, then I feel like that's, like, the most powerful artist statement.

15:24And probably because, like, seeing plays when I was young, it was, like, the visual blew me away of the depth and the color and the light and how the portals worked and scenery was painted. So it was not real, yet it was real. You know, like, all of that was, like, the imprint of visual on the mind really is something I'm kind of obsessed with. And so when I was a kid in my grandparents' garage, when I moved in with them, much to their chagrin, I used to, like, build sets and elaborate curtain systems and so much lighting.

15:57I mean, I was thinking about this that, like, God bless them, I probably, like, ran up the electricity bill, like, getting colored lights and borrowing gel and stealing gels from my theater and creating theaters and sets in my garage. It was, like, my black box for shows that I would never do. I would just, like, create the set and then, like, that would be it. And then I'd tear it down. Did you ever take photographs or drawings? No, no, but I made so many different sets. And it was, like, making these, like, big dioramas for me.

16:29And I'd, like, bring my grandmother in and be, like, okay, this is what happens here. And this is a house and there's an old couple that lives here and they sit in this chair. And I was, like, describe the place. What did they make of this? I don't know. I mean, they had to think it was a little strange, probably, but they never let me feel like it was strange. I'm so grateful. When I interviewed Dane Laffrey, he talked about how Robin Ellis and David Monti were the force behind the training at Interlochen.

16:59And they both had a really outsized impact on you both. And I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about how. Yeah, well, Robin Ellis and David Monti were our high school teachers. He ran the department and a married couple. And they both taught acting and both directed. He directed merrily. David did. And I think what was so incredible about what I learned from them is they never treated us like kids. They just, like, treated us like adult professionals.

17:32And that kind of, like, has made my, I think, the transition from being a student or a young person to adulthood so much smoother because of that. And they instilled in me, like, a great sense of, and all of us, a great sense of discipline and unswerving rigor, which was huge. And nothing but your most excellent work will suffice. That idea. Which has stuck with me. And then we still, like, invite them to every show and make sure they have good seats and ask for their thoughts and notes.

18:07You know, it's... And they give them? Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Incredibly helpful. So very, very indebted to those two. You then received a full scholarship to Juilliard's drama division. I mean, it's hard enough to get into the school, let alone get a full scholarship. At that time, were you primarily considering becoming an actor? Yeah. I mean, I had, in high school, I was, like, interested in a lot of things, but loved acting and loved singing. And people told me I was good at it. So I was like, okay, this is what I'll pursue.

18:38But I definitely was like, oh, maybe I want to be a lighting designer. Maybe I want to do this. I want to be a... I took a directing class. I don't know. But I got into Juilliard, and so I was like, well, I better go. I don't... I think that's, like... Was that ever on a day, like, a question? Is a divining rod in some way. So I... And, you know, I just... I wanted to be in New York City. And I was excited to study drama as opposed to musical theater, because I felt like it would be a more kind of specific type of education, and just being in New York.

19:08So I got to move to New York, and my second day of school was September 11th. Can you believe that? Yes. How did you manage through that? I mean, I think we all just did it together. It was just a group of kids in a white room on that Lincoln Center asking that question. What are we doing here? Why are we studying the winter's tale when the city is literally on fire downtown? And some people decided that they didn't want to.

19:39It's not worth it. I need to rethink my life here. But in my mind, it sort of solidified my calling and my desire to make art and to be an artist, and that that is what I had to offer the world. That that actually might not seem like an antidote to what was happening at the time, but, like, could be a healing force and has been and was after the fact. So it was a really interesting time in which, like, we were asking ourselves really big questions for young minds.

20:16You said you randomly went to an audition for the Broadway revival of Big River. How does one randomly go to an audition? Did I say randomly? I mean, I got an audition, and I wasn't supposed to go to auditions. I was still a student at Juilliard, so that was... Oh, verboten. Verboten, yeah. So I skipped a class, I think, and went to an audition. I think the casting director... I had, like, auditioned for a couple things and, I guess, done well enough that the casting director called me back in.

20:51And I learned a little bit of sign language at that audition. And I'll never forget, I got to audition with a deaf actor, Tyrone Giordano, who I ended up... I've worked with a few times since then. He played Huck Finn. I ended up playing Tom Sawyer. And we got to do a scene together. And we were sitting on the floor. He was signing with someone behind me interpreting a sign for him and behind him interpreting for me.

21:21And it was, like, the most mind-blowing experience I maybe have ever had. I never thought I'd be able to share a stage with a deaf actor. And here I was getting to, and that was because of intricate collaboration. And that, like, was a kind of defining, like, click moment for me. I was like, oh, look at this. This kind of thing is not a realistic thing. Kind of like how, you know, the scenery wasn't real. And yet it was. So that was a big moment. And I got the job and was in a dressing room with Oscar winner Troy Kotzer, who won an Oscar for CODA.

21:58And I, for three months, was just immersed in only sign language in that dressing room. And I learned just having to want to communicate. That was a landmark collaboration between Deaf West Theatre and the Roundabout Theatre Company. At that time, you decided to leave Juilliard. And leaving a place people spend years trying to reach requires trusting something in yourself. When Broadway opportunities began appearing, what calculation were you making in your life?

22:31Well, there weren't any, you know, other opportunities at the time. It was really... Just that one? Just that one. Well, I was planning on doing the show. It happened to fall in the summer. It was a limited run. I was going to close the show and go back to my junior year, my third year. Then we became a big hit and they extended. I got a call like an hour after that press release went out from Juilliard saying, okay, so are you quitting the play or are you quitting school? Well, they were on to me. They said, well, take the weekend and think about it.

23:03But we need to know. And I struggled with this. I was agonizing. And the director of that production of Big River, who I truly credit for my, I mean, he gave me my first Broadway show and that particular one, Jeff Calhoun, this amazing mentor and subsequent friend of mine. And he said, any decision you make, you should be afraid of, then it's worth doing. That combined with I, as I was agonizing about what decision to make, I was flipping through one of my favorite books, Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison.

23:37And I was flipping through talking to a friend and just sort of thumbing through at the time. And I said, I wish I could just like open up a page of this book and it would tell me what to do. And I opened it up and I put my finger there. And it said, you have to leave that college. And the next line was, it's just like Huck and Jim. And it was the one point in this book where Mark Twain's characters were mentioned and it said the words, you have to leave that college. And the next, one of the next lines is, it said something to the effect of, the only reason you're staying there is because you're afraid.

24:13I mean, it was like, I, when I tell you, I like, you know, you see those cartoons of like one of the nine lives leaving the body of the cat. It was like, that was like three of my nine lives. Yeah. And I like shut the book, turned off my lights. And I was like, well, I guess that's my decision. I mean, you talk about looking for signs. I say, I thank you, Ralph Ellison. Well, not long after Big River, you joined Bear, a pop opera, a show that developed an intensely devoted audience and explored faith and sexuality and identity in ways musical theater was not often doing at that time.

24:55What did working on Bear expose you to that surprised you? Well, Bear was an amazing experience because it was like, we did it in this tiny, tiny space. So I had come from like a big musical on Broadway and then I was doing this like tiny drama. And I really loved that experience and love my cast and love being able to play this like really complex character that I really connected with. I mean, I grew up in the church and had struggled with how my identity would mesh with faith and more importantly, other people's faith.

25:29So it was kind of an incredible experience. And the fans of that show, I mean, I still people still come up to me and talk about like that show changed my life. That happened right after I left school. I did that show. How did you meet Barbra Streisand? I met Barbra Streisand at a soundcheck for her European tour on which I had the insane opportunity to sing duets with her, have banter with her, escort her around a stage through stadiums in Europe.

26:05So that's when I first met her. It was a soundcheck? It was a soundcheck? No, I think I first met her. You became one of the Broadway boys. How did that happen? An amazing director, producer, now friend of mine named Richard J. Alexander, who has directed a lot of her concert work, called me up. He had seen me in Times There Are Changing, this Twyla Tharp debacle I was in on Broadway, and said, hey, I'm directing Barbra's European tour. Il Devo had done the tour with her in the States. But for some reason, I think they probably couldn't afford Il Devo for the European tour or didn't want to pay Il Devo their quote.

26:39So they had this idea to have her perform with what was called the Broadway boys. And so it was four guys who had been on Broadway. Some, you know, Hugh Pinero would play the Phantom, Sean McDermott, Peter Lockyer, you know, kind of classic. And I was going to be like the kid, like the young one. I was, God, I was like 24, 23. And so we like rehearsed with a 60-piece orchestra, which traveled, by the way. We had our own plane of like a full-size plane filled with an orchestra and crew.

27:10And Liz Calloway, incredible Liz Calloway, teched the show with us and sang all of her songs. And so we like rehearsed the show, kind of teched the show in some like warehouse in New Jersey. I don't remember. And then flew to Zurich, I think, was our first stop. And I think I met her maybe there. Like as we sound checked and started that tour, we played eight cities in two months. Only did like 10 shows. It was the greatest gig of my life.

27:41I mean, it was like two shows a week with Barbra Streisand, 60-piece orchestra, 30,000 people in the audience. And singing some of the best songs ever written. Ever written. Come on. It was pretty cool. And I got, you know, and I got a couple suits out of it.

27:56Performing inside a production centered around an artist with that kind of history and precision must have created its own education for you. Absolutely. I mean, I got a front row seat to the best master class anyone could imagine. And watching her work in audience, watching her sing these incredible songs every night and navigate how to perform them for people who didn't necessarily speak the language she was doing it in. I mean, it was really cool.

28:27Looking back on it, like I can't believe I got to do that. I can't either. It was really, really cool. Yeah, I am to say an avid fan, a zealot fan would be an understatement. I've been a fan of hers since I was seven or eight years old, listening to my grandmother's LP of Stony End. Uh-huh. And then sang that song over and over and over again in front of my grandmother's full length mirror in her bedroom with a hairbrush as a microphone.

28:59Well, there you go. And I can still sing that song. That's one of my favorite songs of all time. Well, it was funny, too, because I somehow had, like, never seen Funny Girl. I liked musicals, but I was sort of, like, into, you know, the new stuff. And, like, somehow, like, she had eluded me a little bit. I knew who she was. I knew she was famous. I knew she was amazing. People loved her. And I knew that my grandfather, like, had her cassettes in his truck. Shout out to Jim. But I think that was partially why I was able to, like, have such a good time on that tour is because the other guys were like, oh, my God, Parker's coming in.

29:36What am I going to say to her? And I was like, hey, what's going on? I really like to meet the Fockers. You know what I mean? And that became, like, that became her joke, our joke that, like, I was the kid who, like, didn't know who she was. And in a way, I think that probably helped me be relaxed around her. And we just had a great time together. And she called me smartass. That was her nickname for me. That's the best. Because I would always kind of, like, you know, we'd finish and she'd be like, what do you think? And I'd be like, Barbara, I have some notes. And, you know, we just had a really good time. She was awesome.

30:09With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep. Even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC.

30:39Support comes from Wise. The smart way to manage the currencies you need around the globe. Fed up with losing out to hidden fees when you send money abroad with your everyday bank? Choose the smart way. Wise. You can count on the exchange rate you'd usually find on Google. No unwelcome surprises. Plus, ditch that where's my money feeling. Most transfers arrive in under 20 seconds. Join millions, saving billions on hidden fees. Be smart. Get wise. Download the Wise app today. T's and C's apply. Hi there.

31:09It's Adam Grant from Ted's Rethinking Podcast. And this episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. I get to spend my days studying how people think and what it actually takes to change our minds. It's work I find deeply meaningful. But even in meaningful work, there's still busy work. The admin, the repetitive processes, the invisible load that pulls attention away from what really matters. That's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it. Start to finish. Cases closed. Requests handled.

31:39No extra work for you. To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit ServiceNow.com. You have the vision for your business. You have the plan. And you just got handed a huge opportunity. But is your business connectivity reliable enough to make a move? Spectrum Business delivers fast, reliable internet, phone, TV, and mobile services. So you're always connected when it matters most. Get connectivity packages built for your business with savings that keep your budget in check. And with fast, reliable internet and 100% U.S.-based customer support, you'll stay connected and ready to bring your vision to life.

32:16Learn more at Spectrum.com slash business. Restrictions apply. Service is not available in all areas.

32:25Michael, you've spent years building your life through roles that often sat close to outsiders.

Directing Style

32:30People carrying loneliness, longing, distance from the world around them. Looking back now, what patterns did you see in the characters you were being asked to inhabit when you were acting? I mean, I think what you said there, people who are sort of like, not to quote Dear Evan Hansen, but on the outside looking in and feeling that they didn't belong within. And I think maybe the thread there is that the world put that on these characters, but also they put that on themselves.

33:02So the obstacle through line for a lot of these has been like, one has to like, love themselves before they can, anyone else can love them. So maybe that's been a bit of a through line in some of the characters I've been so lucky to play. Around 2014, DJ Kurz, the Deaf West artistic director, approached you about directing for Deaf West. And you and Andy Mientes decided to work reviving the musical Spring Awakening. What made you decide to choose that play? Well, Deaf West had said, is there something you would like to do with us?

33:37And it was really Andy's idea. I'll fully credit him with that, who is also my husband, just to say. He wasn't at the time, but he became my husband legally shortly after that. We've been married for 10 years. He said, oh, this is really interesting because it is about what happens when people do not communicate. When a mother doesn't communicate with her daughter, the realities of womanhood and sex. And when there is a breakdown in communication between the family members and the society and people within it.

34:13And so then I started doing research about what was happening in Deaf history in the late 1890s. And there was this thing called the Milan Conference that occurred, which was an international meeting of Deaf educators. Let me tell you, no Deaf people attended this conference. So it was decisions were being made for the Deaf community by hearing people. So this Milan Conference happened and it was sort of decided by this group of hearing educators for the Deaf that oralism was the only way by which Deaf children could become part of society.

34:55And that means forced speaking. This is still, we are still seeing now the, like, reverberations of this, like, horrible, abusive way of thinking and educational system for the Deaf where kids who might not have ever shouldn't be speaking at all because that's not the Deaf, right? And signing was forbidden and people were forced to speak and sterilized and, and, and, and, and. And it was this really eye-opening moment for this piece because this is what was happening at the time.

35:29And Deaf students were called, they would mark them as fails if they couldn't speak. And a huge plot point in Spring Awakening is the failing of the student Moritz. And so it just kind of opened up this, oh, well, what if we really explored what was happening at the time and could tell a story about Deaf history through the lens of this Vatican play and story. And it, like, cosmically all, like, kind of aligned and fit together and, like, in some way provided a context that the original play does not have, which I think, like, makes it a much better play.

36:06At that point, you had spent more than a decade building your life and career as an actor. Moving from performing inside a production to holding an entire production requires a different relationship to making theater. From what I can tell, you haven't acted on stage or screen since 2019. I think you might be right about that. Just at dinner. Looking back now, how would you view your transition from actor to director?

36:37Looking at it now, especially in retrospect, it feels inevitable and makes complete sense. But at the time when I started to do it, it felt kind of radical. I mean, when I was a kid, I used to force all my friends to do plays and they didn't want to at all. But I was, like, setting up the diorama sets in my garage and I was kind of circling every part of the theater. And so thinking about it now, it makes sense that, like, me understanding what an actor does is a huge part of my work as a director.

37:10I mean, I think the best directors are actors. I look at Joe Mantello. I mean, he's, like, not only the best actor in the world, but the best director in the world. I saw Death of a Salesman last night. I saw it last week. Oh, my God. Well, first of all, what a friggin' amazing play. But how he was able to let us hear it was really spectacular. But that training felt like, oh, necessary for me being a director. So it doesn't feel like I, like, had a career change.

37:41It felt like I, like, took the courses, the required courses. During your acting years, was there a particular role that changed your understanding of what theater could do through the performance of an actor? I think doing Hunchback of Notre Dame was a big moment for me because it, in a way, like, drew upon so many different things I had learned. It drew upon my work with Def West as an actor, my training at Juilliard physically and vocally, and my understanding of light and design in terms of how I was going to be moving through the scenic world of that show.

38:20So that was right around the time when I started directing and working on Spring Awakening. I was doing Hunchback. So I was starting to, like, think from a different perspective about, like, okay, what's happening on stage and where do I fit in in it as opposed to, like, just having on my blinders and thinking about the perspective of the character, which I don't think is actually a great idea for an actor to do. I actually, like, I think it's important to be able to turn off the outside eye as an actor, and so that was an interesting time of struggle for me of, like, wanting to think about the whole, but, you know, when you're on stage, you can only just be and do the actions of the character.

39:05But there was a shift during that time in terms of how I thought about acting and theater and my place in it, certainly. You chose to play Quasimodo as a deaf person as he was originally written. What did that entail in comparison to a role playing him as a hearing person as he'd been primarily played? Yeah, I mean, it was, it just, as I was reading the novel, it was clear that he was deafened by the bells and that he would have invented language with Frollo.

39:40And yet he did have to sing and speak in soliloquy to his gargoyle friends. And so it was a really interesting opportunity to play kind of the version of Quasimodo that people could see and the version of Quasimodo that existed in his own mind. Yeah, it was, it just drew upon so many things and it was such a gift. I mean, what a score. What a character. What a story. What a story. What, I mean, Victor Hugo, man.

40:10He was really, he was really writing about some real, real life things. And at the same time I was doing that show, I lost both my grandparents. Pat and Jim passed away during that process. Kind of suddenly. My grandpa that had a stroke, she passed away that same week, suddenly. And then I was kind of taking care of him for a long time and then he passed away. But in a way, I'm so grateful for that show because it allowed me a place to place my grief.

40:41Quasimodo carries so much sadness. Oh my God, I mean, he buries his father and the one person who ever showed him kindness. Like he, through a child's mind, has to process grief. And that was an intense time. And I luckily had a place I could grieve every night on stage. After Spring Awakening was revived, you got your first Tony nomination. Yeah. In 2016. And then in 2018, you were nominated again for the play you directed, Once on this Island.

41:15You transformed Circle in the Square into a post-hurricane Haitian landscape, which changed the physical relationship between the audience and the story itself. I saw the show. I was seated in the first row, which meant I literally was on the stage, my feet in the sand. And when you begin building a production, what role does space play in the emotional experience? Well, it's kind of everything. Because unlike a film where you watch a flat surface, you're watching three-dimensional surface.

41:45And therefore, every vantage point of the audience is in a different relationship to everything on stage. It's amazing. It's why, like, you can go back to a show and have a completely different experience, let alone that, like, it's live and there are probably different people. And you're a different person than you were the last time you saw it, and the air is different, and the temperature, and the... And the live music is playing right there. Yeah, I mean, if you think about the science, it's pretty unbelievable. Yeah. But the space is everything, and I have always been in love with Circle in the Square. I mean, it's the one theater in the round that we have on Broadway.

42:16What I love about that is it forces the actor to be incredibly truthful. There's no cheating out. No hiding. No, no. You don't, like, angle your body to the audience so they can see your pretty face. It's like, you can just look at somebody, and you have to keep moving always in Circle in the round, which is an amazing challenge for the director. And also, something magical happens in the round. Say, you and I are in a scene. We're sitting across from each other in the studio here.

42:48We're looking at each other. There's audience behind you. There's audience behind me. This does two things to an audience. One, it forces me to imagine as opposed to see. I have to imagine the world behind you, so I'm involved, right? Because there's no scenery because that would block the audience behind you. So I'm imagining the world behind you. So you're already, like, you're in the play as an audience member. So it does that to the audience member. And it also puts you in the empathetic place of the character that you were behind.

43:21It involves the audience in a way that I think is, like, so magical. I can't wait to get back in that theater. I love it so, so much. I mean, if I had to, like, work in one space for the rest of my life, it would be in the round. After several nominations in 2023, you won two Tonys for Parade for Best Direction of a Musical and for Best Revival of a Musical. And you've spoken about revival not as preservation but reinterpretation.

43:53And when you first encounter material, what tells you where something still has more to reveal? I start kind of every process when looking at a work and deciding if it's something to embark upon. I'm saying, what is this actually about? What is this challenging me to examine? And sometimes that really relates to the world today and sometimes more closely to the world today than the world in which the time it was written in. Certainly for Parade, it was.

44:23Yeah. I mean, I think when Parade was written and Parade is about – it was already looking back to the past. But we were, you know, in a time politically in America where we were kind of, like, patting ourselves on the back and saying, wasn't it nice we kind of got over all that racism stuff? You know, this was like the Clinton administration. We had, you know, if you look at media from that time, it was like – it seemed like we had, like, gotten over some kind of hurdle. But not really. Right. Actually, it just kind of appeared that way.

44:54And so to be able to re-examine it in the prelude and middle of, like, the Trump time was really an interesting thing. The piece really came alive, I think, because of the audience's relationship to it. Well, that's what I wanted to ask you about. You were working with material built around the murder of Mary Fagan, the wrongful conviction and lynching of Leo Frank, and a musical that audiences held really deep attachment to.

45:24Standing at the beginning of that process, what felt most important to get right?

Maybe Happy Ending Production

45:29I wanted to embrace the truth of it and to present to the audience a series of events for them to then decide. I wasn't trying to, like, say, like, and here's the answer. Leo Frank is exonerated and this is what it should be. Like, actually, I just wanted to kind of, like, do it as starkly as possible, which is why we, like, had no set. Everything was pretty minimal. And we performed all of the action, basically, on this, like, gallo courtroom square, 12 by 12 square, so that we could present this to the audience and they could make up their mind.

46:07But it was important to me that we reminded the audience throughout that these events occurred, these people lived and breathed, and that we are doing a play. It was a Brechtian exercise, this particular show. I was very interested in a concept that he coined called the Frenzungs effect, which means the alienation effect, where we acknowledge what we are watching is separate from reality. We are saying, this is Ben Platt. He is an actor.

46:39He is playing Leo Frank. This is what Leo Frank looks like. Here's a real picture of that. Ben Platt is going to say things and do things that Leo Frank did, and then you, because you have been given all these ingredients that are quite disparate, some real, some manufactured, you then are creating a story and an entire different show is going on in your head as the audience than what we are doing that is personal to you. And therefore, your emotional connection to it is going to be so much greater than anything we could have presented in a sort of naturalistic or opulent way.

47:15It's just like a fascinating thing. Yeah, it was the way in which audiences experienced the story was as much a part of the production as the story. Absolutely. And varied from person to person based upon their entire life. Yeah. I think people were so emotionally engaged by it because they got to bring themselves to it in a way we don't always get to when we, like, enter a more finished proscenium arch.

47:48Your productions repeatedly return to people trying to connect across distance, difference, or isolation. And nowhere is that more apparent than in the play Maybe Happy Ending, which is, I have to say, without fawning too much, really one of my most favorite plays I've ever seen. And I am a Broadway fanatic. I see a lot of shows. And it had been my very first show I ever saw. My dad took me to see the original production of Chorus Line. So that's how far back this passion of mine goes.

48:22It's all downhill from that. Come on. No, no, not true. But what an amazing first show to see. It was an amazing first show to see. But I want to talk about how you came upon that show and what made you so sure it would be right for Broadway. I got an email from the producer, Jeffrey Richards, saying, I really like the work that you're doing right now with Once on the Silent. So this was 2017. And there's a musical called Maybe Happy Ending written by two young writers who met at NYU.

48:54And it's about robots in the future who fall in love. And I thought, that's a terrible idea. Isn't that the Jensen's? I want nothing to do with it. I, like, okay. You know, my phone wasn't ringing off the hook. And certainly I hadn't done a new musical. And I thought, how wonderful that they would think of me for this. And he said, the writers loved your work. And would I consider directing a reading of it or something?

49:25I got in my car and drove upstate. I have a place outside of Hudson, New York. So I had about two hours to listen to the music. I listened to the demos. I was like, hmm, well, this music's really good. It sounds like songs that might have existed forever with the jazz stuff. And then the other part of the score I thought was just, like, Mr. Rogers meets Sufjan Stevens. I mean, it was really beautiful and interesting and not saccharine and smart lyrics.

49:57But I just, you know, listened to the songs without knowing what the story was. And so then I got home and then I immediately was intrigued. So I started reading the script and I read it in, like, 45 minutes and was totally wrecked by it. When I got to that last scene and he, spoiler alert, turns to Wal Boone and says, shh, don't tell her, okay, that he hadn't erased. I was a mess. I was a mess. I cried halfway through. I was a mess.

50:28I started crying halfway through and continued crying till the end. Yeah. It reminded me of my grandparents. It reminded me of me. And the fact that they're robots, we kind of just let them in a little bit more easily because we can't imagine they'd ever screw with our emotions. You know, like, there is something about that disconnect that I love about theater, that verfriendens effect a little bit. Yeah. And so I wrote back and I was like, I have to do this. I love this. And I had ideas immediately on how it might be done.

50:59And it turned out being a very different show than it started. But that kernel of what it's about remained the same, of helping, of our responsibility to each other. All accolades aside, maybe Happy Ending arrived on Broadway facing a lot of financial challenges that had followed the production. Early box office numbers were uncertain. Ticket sales were not robust initially. Oh, it was really bad at the beginning. Yeah. Living inside that period, what felt important to protect about the production while people were still discovering it?

51:31I think it was useful that it was, like, such a hard show to do because I wasn't able to, like, think about how it was being received or how it was selling. I was just trying to make it great because I believed, and everyone who worked on that show believed 100% that if we could just get people to see it, that it would melt any heart that came through the door. We wanted the production to match the beauty of the story and the simplicity of the story and the complexity of the story.

52:04And so we all, like, closed our eyes and jumped off a cliff together. And people started then to say, hey, you have to see this thing. I mean, that is why we are running today is because people told people to see it. Yeah. I went immediately to Instagram and was like, best play I've ever seen. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was people and people and people and people. How many Tonys did you win? I think it won six, maybe. I don't know. Yeah. You won Best Director.

52:34It won Best Show. Best Musical. Best Score. Best Book. Best Scenic Design. Yeah. Many of your productions explore people existing between worlds, hearing and deaf communities, insiders and outsiders, belonging in isolation. Your latest Broadway play, The Lost Boys, feels connected to that lineage. What drew you towards this particular story? I really wanted to do something scary, or that could be scary, that could then lead to an emotional catharsis and love.

53:13I often think about how fear and love are like shadow and light. And to explore something about light and darkness and tell a family story with such outrageously big themes that surround it was really exciting to me. And I wanted to take people on an epic roller coaster of a journey. I mean, I think the film is so interesting. And it was something I had never seen the film before I got asked about working on it. And I watched it, and I was like, well, this is strange.

53:44It's like a coming-of-age horror comedy. Like, how would you even describe it? Danger, adolescence, all of it. Yeah, it's got everything. And I was like, well, that's a real opportunity, actually. I think a lot of people think that's a flaw in tone when things are multi. But I thought this could be actually its greatest asset. Because if we spend too much time in the scary vampires, they're not going to be not scary. So we have to laugh at them, and we have to fight in order to love.

54:15But the fact that it existed around this mom and her two boys, I was really excited to get to tell the story about how we choose our family, which is ultimately what I think it's about. And to pull that out of the film and deepen it and kind of give it more juice was really exciting. And just like a visual and sonic playground. I mean, I got to put the team together and knew immediately that I wanted this band that I was obsessed with called The Rescues to write the music.

54:47And boy, they did. And I can't believe they had never written for the theater before or had never seen a Sondheim show. So we changed that. And now they're hopefully here to stay. There's a moment in the new production where a character states that turning a movie into a musical reeks of desperation. That got a big laugh. And it was a wonderfully meta moment. As you built the production, what felt newly possible through theater that made the adaptation feel necessary rather than nostalgic?

55:20I think being able to acknowledge the silliness of the film and not take ourselves too seriously ever or if we, you know, it was like a little bit of a balancing act of the show. If we ever, it's like we wanted to go to extremes, but we couldn't stay in extremes. So we kind of have to vacillate and dance on the edge of the blade there a little bit and to be able to, because it's a musical, use music as a way to do that and like to explore types of music, rock music, pop music, character comedy songs, things like that.

55:55It just was a really exciting opportunity to kind of harken back to like the big musical of the 80s that relied on its score to take you on the ride. The Rescue started writing this big score. I mean, like when I heard it, I was like, well, I know what we have to do. We have to make a big show. We have to like deliver this score in a way that seems like it is working in tandem with the production, the music and production. There aren't that many new musicals where you can still come out of the theater singing the songs.

56:30It's true. And The Lost Boys has that, which is really wonderful. Yeah. I mean, people are like singing the songs like going down the escalator. Yeah. The Palace, which is awesome. You expanded the role of the mother considerably from the film for Shoshana Bean, who is just euphoric in this. She's pretty spectacular. And then The Little Brother as well. You expanded his fluidity, which I really appreciated and loved. Talk about making those decisions. Well, we knew that what was acceptable for female characters in the 80s was not – is certainly not acceptable today.

57:10It wasn't acceptable then, but it happened. And we wanted to give the women more agency, more depth and more of a seat at the table and more involved in the plot for a lot. I mean – and so, spoiler alert, like Lucy especially, she is the heart of this show. She is the one trying to hold everything together. And the fact that we get to like actually give her agency and that she is the salvation of this family in the end, having been through what many women have been through throughout history and especially at this time is a real, real gift to get to do.

57:54And we wanted to do the same with the character of Star, who is basically like a glorified prop in the film. But as now, you know, they're both integral to the story and with Sam, I mean, it's like Joel Schumacher was really dropping hints in that film as to who he might be. And it just felt important to me that we explore his recognition and reversal of feeling like his queerness – and when I say queerness, I mean that in like a bigger sense than his sexuality because I don't actually think this is a story about sexuality.

58:26It's about feeling queer, as we called it back then, that he recognizes that the thing that he has thought would keep him on the outside is his greatest skill and his strongest sword. What I love about the Lost Boys is there's kind of like – you can come in from any walk of life and find a character that you can connect with. Well, the Lost Boys themselves exist as both fantasy and metaphor. What do they represent to you? I think they represent the thing that we think we want.

59:01What do you mean? Tell me more. I think they represent the shiny life, the life without responsibility, the staying young forever, the reclaiming one's youth when we feel like it might have been taken from us or is being taken from us because of the responsibilities that are being shoved upon us by our parents. And they represent – and they represent that all these things come with like a heavy cost and is it worth it? Like is it – do you want this enough to take life from someone? It's such an interesting concept.

59:33My wife, Roxanne, and I were talking about – we went together to see the play and we were talking about how often vampires appear in so many cultures. Yeah, yeah. And how they're often extremely sexy. Interview with a vampire and the Twilight series and now the Lost Boys. What do you think it is about vampires that is so compelling to people? I think the idea of vampires forces us to contemplate the type of life we would live without the threat of death.

1:00:07And does that reveal our true nature? And if so, what is our true nature? Yeah. Or are we just living in a reactionary reality to the reality of death? I think that might be why. It actually like digs to the core of who we are and want to be just the existence of vampires. Like, okay, if you were a vampire and you didn't have to worry about going to heaven or hell, right? You were just going to live forever.

1:00:37And it's like what kind of life would you lead? Who would you love? How would you behave? If you could take what you wanted without any consequence, what would you take? Yeah. Everything. Yeah. And would what you desire change based upon that? Or grow. Or you think you desire. Yeah. You know, all these things. So I think it like actually like this kind of like mythic, silly vampire idea to some actually is like an unbelievable what if.

1:01:09That is a great unifier because everybody dies, except for vampires, but everybody dies. And so I think we, it like, it poses a question that is quite a complex one to grapple with. And so it's like, maybe that's why like every culture has it because in every culture you die. Yeah. Well, the Lost Boys just earned 12 Tony Award nominations, including Best Musical, Best Book, Best Musical Score, Choreography, Scenic Design. You were also nominated for Best Director and Best Lighting Design.

1:01:42So you may win two Tonys. Oh my gosh, that would be, that would be too much. You also just won the Drama Desk Award for Outstanding Lighting Design of a Musical, which you shared with your co-designer Jen Schriever. Congratulations. Thank you. It's amazing. I mean, what's the best part about this all is that the Lost Boys was just a divine collaboration. Like, in order to make magic on stage, every single element has to be working in perfect concert. And so an acknowledgement of one department or one part of the show is such a compliment to the entire group of humans who made this.

1:02:18I have two last questions for you. The first one is this. Theater asks strangers to sit together in darkness and collectively experience something unfolding in real time. What feels uniquely possible inside that exchange from your perspective?

1:02:39I think the possibility of recalibration, of change, of reexamination, of literally changing the chemistry of humanity within the walls of the theater is possible because of it. Because we are breathing the same air. We are actually feeling the vibrations. Like, this magical thing happens where actors on stage remember a thought created by an emotion of a writer.

1:03:12They speak an invisible task into the air. It travels magically through the air and through speakers and to the eyes and ears of the audience who then go in their mind, then touch their heart, and then they leave and they change because of it. It's, like, really crazy. Yeah, I was thinking that. It's really magical. It's the sort of sound and the experience sort of reverberates through us and off us and then onto the other people that are around us.

1:03:43It's this wonderful collective experience. And it is unique that one time there will never, ever be a recreation of it. Yeah. My last question is this. This was published in an interview about your life in Playbill in 2018. This is what was written. Fueled by his grandparents' love, Arden said if he could deliver one message to them, it would be, We don't ever realize how precious life is while we're living it, and I will try in everything I do to honor the love that you gave me.

1:04:17My last question is this. Do you feel that you've done that, and is there still anything else you'd want to tell them? I feel like I'm trying to do that. I feel like every day is an opportunity to try to get closer to that. And by the act of creation, that that can spread, and so that they can, like, live on. And is there anything I would like to say to them? I would say that I am constantly amazed how I keep discovering them.

1:04:58And we do, too, through your work. Well, that's a great compliment. Michael Arden, thank you so much for making so much work that matters. Thank you for joining me today on Design Matters, and good luck at the Tonys. You can see Michael Arden's latest musical, the Tony-nominated show, The Lost Boys, on Broadway in New York City. This is the 21st year we've been podcasting Design Matters, and I'd like to thank you for listening. And remember, we can talk about making a difference, we can make a difference, or we can do both.

1:05:29I'm Debbie Melman, and I look forward to talking with you again soon. Design Matters is produced for the TED Audio Collective by Curtis Fox Productions. The interviews are usually recorded at the Masters in Branding program at the School of Visual Arts in New York City, the first and longest-running branding program in the world. The editor-in-chief of Design Matters Media is Emily Weiland. With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One.

1:06:05If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com slash bank. Capital One N.A. Member FDIC.

1:06:28Hello, it's Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu Podcast. And James Acaster here, also from the Off Menu Podcast. Imagine a backyard tradition. A sun-drenched afternoon, a massive vat of bubbling oil, and a man named Big Dave wearing goggles. It's a lot of effort for a bird. Well, what if I told you that Boar's Head has brought that exact backyard tradition right to the deli counter? Well, I'd say, James, you've finally lost it. Boar's Head brings to the deli the taste of deep-fried turkey.

1:06:58It's all the seasoning and that golden-fried glory of the fryer's turkey breast, but without Big Dave having to set up a perimeter in your garden. Oh man, that sounds genuinely incredible. The fryer's turkey breast. In stores now. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli. Boar's Head. Committed to craft since 1905.

1:07:20Yep, he's planning another project. So, this Father's Day at Lowe's, tap into free gifts for Dad. Get a free Select Craftsman Power Tool when you buy a Craftsman V20 Charger with 2 Amp Hour and 4 Amp Hour batteries. Plus, get a free DeWalt Power Tool when you buy a select 20-volt max XR 4 Amp Hour battery kit. Dad knows our best lineup is here at Lowe's. Valid through 714, while supplies last. Selection varies by location. You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind.

1:07:52Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to Progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company & Affiliates. National average 12-month savings by $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025.

1:08:23Potential savings will vary. Hey, it's Adam Grant from Ted's podcast, Rethinking with Adam Grant. This episode is sponsored by the Amazon Kindle Scribe. Up until now, people have had to choose between the focus that comes from writing on paper and the efficiency of laptops and tablets, which might come at the cost of distracting pop-ups and notifications. The Kindle Scribe's exciting new AI features are designed to streamline your workflow for maximum efficiency, but what's not on it is just as important. Scribe comes with no email, messaging, or social apps, so you can unlock your best focus.

1:08:56Use Scribe's AI Notebook Insights to ask your notebook a question and instantly comb through handwritten notes for fast answers, or pull up and mark PDFs with PDF markup right on your screen, no printer necessary. The Kindle Scribe makes it easy to keep your notes organized with everything you need in one place, without having to sort through paper files, or type notes on your laptop. I love how the Kindle Scribe brings my notes to life while making them impossible to lose. I know what I'm working on moving forward. What are you working on? Kindle Scribe.

1:09:27Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe. Kindle Scribe.