Satanic Panic - Ep666

Introduction

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Decibel Geek Podcast Intro

1:28Woe to you, oh earth and sea. For the devil sends the beast with wrath. Because he knows the time is short. Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast. For it is a human number. Its number is 666. This is the Decibel Geek Podcast. With Aaron Camaro and Chris Sinzak.

1:59Well, it's hard to believe we make it this far. But here we are. It's a little creepy. This is the Decibel Geek Podcast. This is episode 666. My name is Aaron Camaro. Joined as always by my good friend. I don't think he worships the devil. It's Chris Sinzak.

2:29You don't worship the devil, do you?

Listener Feedback

2:31Last time I checked, no. I did not.

2:34I've been fascinated by the devil as I think all of us that are listening and talking today have been at some point. Because, you know, what's more fun than rooting for the bad guy sometimes? And as we're going to find out, rock and roll and heavy metal, you know, rebellion is the basis of it. And Satan has been a huge subject matter for music, even beyond hard rock and heavy metal, as we'll discuss, going back a very, very long way with some mythology. And it's just a fascinating thing to talk about.

3:06And yeah, you're right, though. I don't know that I ever even thought, what will we do for episode 666? Because it seems so far away, you know. Right. And then all of a sudden, dun-dun-dun, here it is.

3:21Man, we had a lot of episodes to get this far, but I know the last couple ones got some good feedback on them. We love it when you guys give us feedback when you're commenting on the Decibel Geek community and you see the posts out there and all that good stuff. We like to share what you got to say.

Geeks of the Week

3:37Got a little comment here from Kent Barrett. And he said, and how would actually somebody pay $2 million for Vinny's new album, American Express Black Card? I don't even know where to begin with that whole thing. It's funny. He's removed all mentions of the $2 million album recently on his page. Yeah, I imagine so. That was a quick story.

4:03This crazy guy once charged $2 million for a record. In a follow-up story, nobody cares. Yeah, he got the attention he ordered. Another one of our top fans, Ed Dinges, says, who else can top this? I've seen Maiden with Blaze Bailey at the Rave in Milwaukee in 1996. He says they were great. Wow. I'm surprised you weren't at that show, Aaron. Well, you know, I always tell everybody, I grew up in a little town in the middle of Wisconsin. It was kind of hard to get to these shows all the time and do all these things.

4:35But Ed Dinges was a road warrior. He would do it. He'd cruise down to Milwaukee, all the way from central Wisconsin, to see Iron Maiden with Blaze Bailey. That's something right there. It's either dedication or mental illness. You decide.

Satanic Panic

4:53Maybe a little of both. Maybe a little bit. Another of our top fan, top toppist fan, the mighty K, Kristen Schimbeck, she says it would be horrible if a hacker released Vinnie Vincent's new music to us all for free. The only problem with that is I guess you'd have to buy it first. But like you've said, it's all pretty much out there already anyway. Eric Lousier follows that up and says, I would ask the hacker to delete it.

5:20Do the whole world a favor. Right. And as always, our awesome friends, Tony Smith and Rick Friel. Looking forward to the Decibel Geek podcast. Always happy to get a new episode. Here you go. This is one today. And then Eric Lousier says, Vinnie Vincent better pay me $2 million to listen to his music. That's a very valid point. It's a starting price. Oh, man. So, Geeks of the Week, it says here, make an announcement regarding Facebook and X.

5:50It's a sad day, my friends. Oh, no. What is it? No, they're not letting you keep track no more? Yes, that is correct. Oh, what? And I looked it up on Reddit because that's where I get most of my factual information. Apparently, it's been for the past year, people slowly, they've been instituting this thing where you suddenly can't see who shares your stuff. I don't know why. I can make a guess. I'm betting it has something to do with these are analytics that you can get if you do their paid version of advertising or whatever.

6:24But, yeah, you can see how many shares you had, but you can't see who it was that shared it. And then I'm like, well, I still got X, right? Or Twitter, whatever you want to call it. Yeah. And then now it's like, nope, you can see how many, but you have to sign up for their paid analytics to see who shares your stuff. Who did it? Dang. So, I'm wondering if Geeks of the Week are a thing of the past now. That makes me sad. Only on episode 666 would that happen. The devil made him do it, I guess.

6:54The devil's behind this. Him and his lust for money. Well, I'm going to still do this anyway. And as always, the Mooger Fugger. Well, as always, we appreciate everybody that did, even though we don't know who, but, you know, the usual suspects, I'm sure. Yeah, I guess we can figure out a way we'll bring it back, but otherwise, that stinks. Please leave your comments about what you think of the episodes. That's now more important than ever, because we want to hear back from you guys.

7:27Yikes. Now we've got time to feed at the beginning. We need more comments.

7:31And you see, we read them. We'll talk about them. It's fun. We love that. Well, you know, it's funny how a number can make people uncomfortable. Three sixes. Six, six, six. For some, you know, it's just a number. But for others, it's a warning. You know, there was a time not that long ago when people believed evil wasn't just in the world around them, but it was also hiding in their record collections. The music Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, Sabbath, and on down the line. It wasn't just loud, rebellious, and dangerous.

8:03It was encoded. Secret messages hidden backwards waiting to be discovered or maybe just waiting to be believed. On this episode, we're going to be diving into an era where pastors brought turntables to churches, where parents feared what their kids might hear if the needle dropped the wrong way, and where two brothers from Minnesota set out to expose what they believed was a conspiracy hiding in plain sight. But here's the question. Was the devil really hiding in the music, or were people just hearing what they were told to hear?

8:38Well, here we are. It's Decibel Geek episode 666, and we're going to talk all about... The Satanic Panic.

Robert Johnson and the Devil

8:49June 19th, 1937, Robert Johnson went into a studio and recorded Me and the Devil Blues. And this ties in with his famous meeting at the Crossroads with Satan and signing his soul over to achieve fame and fortune. And, you know, of course, the song Crossroads became, you know, has been covered a billion times. Me and the Devil Blues, not as many, but kind of chilling to listen to.

9:22Is it all folklore, or did Robert Johnson really meet up with Beelzebub on a street corner? It's really up to you to decide, but it's fascinating that it goes all the way back to the 30s. Yeah, I mean, that's got to be one of the first times when you think about, like, I mean, in 1937, I guess that was pop music for that time. So, you know, singing about the devil has got to be pretty crazy for people back then. Did you ever see the movie Crossroads, the Ralph Macchio movie?

9:54Yeah, of course, with Steve Vai in it. Yeah, I mean, that totally references the whole story. And, you know, it's a fun 80s movie, and it's a little corny looking back on, but I don't know, that whole story has always been interesting to me. And I will say, you know, at the outset, you know, those of you listening are from all over the place. But for Aaron and I, even though he was in Wisconsin and I was in Tennessee, I guess we both kind of grew up in what you would call flyover states. And, you know, not big metropolises. At least Nashville wasn't back in those days.

10:25But I don't know if our surroundings and environment had an effect on how we perceived, you know, Satan and music and what scared us and what did not. And we'll get into that as we go. But interesting that it goes all the way back to the blues music. And then, of course, you know, so blues just gets bigger and bigger and bigger. And then you get artists like Muddy Waters, and then that crosses over into what becomes rock and roll, like Muddy Waters had the song I Want to Rock and Roll You All Night Long.

10:57And then Alan Freed, of course, famously coins the phrase rock and roll. But around 56, Screamin' Jay Hawkins becomes the first shock rocker with the release of the single I Put a Spell on You. And it's not necessarily a satanic song, but, you know, it was the beginning of shock rock and, you know, elements of voodoo and horror. And he had a crazy look himself. Yeah, he did. And, you know, God, imagine being a kid in the 50s hearing that song for the first time.

11:30That must have freaked a lot of children out. They were seeing him on TV performing it. I mean, he was menacing looking scary, dude. Yeah, and it later made the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's 500 songs that shaped rock and roll, so. Yeah, I've always loved Marilyn Manson's version of that. He seemed like the perfect guy to cover something like that. We will get to Marilyn a little bit later in the discussion, for sure. Oh, I'm sure. The revival in the 90s. Exactly. Yeah, we're going to go through the decades.

12:01We're not, you know, we're not going to waste too much time. So that's 56, you know, and at that point, rock and roll is already looked at as evil by a lot of America at this time.

Rock and Roll as Rebellion

12:12Because Elvis comes in, he's shaking his hips, and that's not moral. And so even though it wasn't necessarily considered satanic, rock and roll in general was viewed as a threat to society. Sure. And the devil is along for the ride, as the fundamentalists would bring up in later years, which also they capitalized, as I'll mention, in later years as well. On my notes, like the next big development, I think, as far as like, you know, what the music we like's connection with the devil and Satan would be in 68, the Rolling Stones released Sympathy for the Devil.

12:52And, you know, it's a song written from the perspective of Satan, which is a pretty bold move for 1968. I bet you that freaked people out, because the Rolling Stones were, you know, a pretty popular band. I Can't Get No Satisfaction and all that stuff. And they're one of the top bands in the world. And then 1968, they're releasing a song like this. I mean, holy shit. Well, and also, and then, you know, it's funny, like, they were always the rival of the Beatles, but the Rolling Stones were always like, well, yeah, you're different, but we'll be very different.

13:28And, you know, you're a little edgy, but we'll release Sympathy for the Devil. Right. And we'll release an album called For Their Satanic Majesty's Request. Yeah, yeah. Those guys just didn't care. They liked freaking people out. They liked being the bad boys of the scene, for sure. And, you know, it's like, you know, Lucifer's the narrator on that song. And, but like, you know, the Rolling Stones were viewed as pretty evil in their early days.

14:00Like, the crowds would lose their minds over them. Yeah. And I was just mentioning, Don McClain played the Opry the other night where I worked, who did American Pie. And, I mean, have you looked into the mythology behind the song American Pie and who, what lyric is about which person? No, I never have. There's a few lines that a lot of people seem to think are attributed to Mick Jagger and that he's calling him the devil in the song. Like, Jack Flash sat on a candlestick because fire is the devil's only friend.

14:31Yeah. And as I watched him on the stage, my hands were clenched in fists of rage. No angel born in hell could bring that Satan's spell. And that's supposedly him writing about the Rolling Stones' Altamont performance where somebody got killed. Yeah. That's a crazy thing to see. Yeah. So, like, the devil would get brought up into this stuff. And that's the crazier thing to look back on is, like, you know, a lot of this stuff seems tame to us now. Sure. Yeah. I mean, because all the years later, like, this stuff, you look back and go, oh, well, if somebody released a song like Sympathy for the Devil today, it wouldn't be nothing.

15:08In the world of W.A.P. and all that shit. I was going to say, in the world of W.A.P. and all that shit. But, yeah, no, but, like, imagining, you know, like, our parents in high school at the time getting exposed to this stuff is pretty interesting. Yeah. And on my list, I do have an interesting little, you know, trivia note. Have you heard of the band Coven? You know what? I have. Just not too recently, I kind of stumbled across them and was like, I want to know more about this band.

15:40Kind of considered the first satanic rock band, like they straight up were a satanic band. And as you'll hear in a little clip, there's a song, they actually had a song called Black Sabbath from their 1969 album, Witchcraft Destroys Minds and Reaps Souls. Yeah, they definitely embraced the whole gimmick for sure. It's funny, though, that they're so open with what witchcraft's going to do to them. But, yeah, join us anyway. Right. We're going to take your soul and destroy your mind, but come on.

16:12It's fun. A little good time along the way. The music's awesome, at least.

16:18And then, of course, we get to the landmark moment of Black Sabbath releasing Black Sabbath. Yeah, now we're talking. Which is so funny, though, because, like, they all wore crosses. They never said they were satanic, but everyone just ran with that. But, yeah, it's a funny thing, because you've got to think around this time, you're starting to see movies like Rosemary's Baby and The Exorcist and stuff like that. And it's almost like the whole world kind of changed at that time.

16:48It got a little scarier as far as the music, the movies, and everything. And Black Sabbath, just by the title alone, freaked people out. And the music being so dark and heavy, you know, where nothing had been like that before. But then, like I always said, you know, you look at a lot of the lyrics, and you could argue that Black Sabbath was kind of a Christian rock band in a lot of ways. In ways. Although I can't defend the Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath cover in that respect in any way.

17:19Well, you get both sides. You get the front and the back, you know, the difference. And that's always the thing with Sabbath. It was like, even their songs about the devil are all warnings. You know, don't mess with this guy. He's no good. Dio, much the same, too. Yeah. Yeah. Which I didn't have Dio on my list today. But, I mean, obviously, he got tied into a lot of that, too. Like, Heaven and Hell. Although it's funny, if you look at the lyrics for the song Heaven and Hell, it's just like a song about free thinking. And questioning.

17:50That's really all it's about. And it's just, but, I mean, well, sum up what I can understand. Some of Ronnie's stuff just goes right over my head. But, like, any time he would speak on the subject, he would kind of say, well, you know, what I believe is immaterial. Or, you know, there's good and evil in every person. He wrote about very human things, but everyone kind of just made it out like, oh, he's the devil. Right. Because he had such a clever way of twisting words and making it seem scarier than what it probably actually meant.

18:21Yeah. And, like, the whole hand thing with the devil horns. We have to talk about the devil horns. Yeah. Right. You know, he was, I guess he was the one who kind of made it famous. And, you know, Gene likes to say that he did, but he has the thumb out, which means I love you in sign language. And that came from a comic book, of all things. Yeah. But also there's photos of John Lennon doing it back in the Yellow Submarine photo session. So, but Ronnie G, Ronnie James Dio always said that he did it as a, as a remembrance of his grandmother.

18:53And she would, if she was like warning you or saying you're, it was called the evil eye and she'd point at you with her two fingers and she'd like, you know, don't do wrong or the evil eye is going to get you. Yeah. So, also a caution, like a cautionary tale.

19:10Yeah, that's how a lot of this was, but boy, does it get misconstrued. Well, to young, dumb kids that had taken three bong hits and they're at the concert going, oh, fuck yeah, hell yeah, the devil, you know? So, and it was just, it, it, the devil pisses off parents. And if you, and as we'll, we'll learn as we go over time here, because we're also going to get into the commercialism of the devil in, in music. Cause that certainly runs rampant too. So, so it's, it's, it's a thing though, but it's an easy sale to kids cause it's anti-authority.

19:43It's anti-parents and, uh, it's, it's an easy thing for kids to run with. And I think we, we were all guilty of it. I mean, who wasn't fascinated when Motley Crue really shouted the devil? I mean, or looked into that stuff, you know, it was, it was interesting. But on the other hand of that too, you know, you got to kind of feel for the parents because they just want their kids to not be influenced by Satan. Yeah. Well, and it was, but it was, and it was funny. It really, as we look back on this, that's something else I've noticed lately. It's like music to the, you know, and obviously if you're listening to this, you actually give weight and credibility and value to music.

20:19But most of society these days does not value music like we used to and did not really give music power to power to change things. And, uh, but back in these days, if somebody got popular enough and the parents didn't like what they were doing, they were, they felt legitimately threatened by it for their children. Yeah. Which is it. It's like, like nobody, nobody 20 years ago was like that Black Veil Brides band.

20:49They're going to ruin society.

20:54Volbeat will be the end of us all. I love Volbeat. Um, although a lot of satanic imagery and writing in their music too. I didn't have them on the list today, but yeah. Although the singer used to be in a satanic band before Volbeat. I think he, he might be a practicing satinist. I don't know, but there's a lot of devil imagery and lyrics in their music. But, uh, yeah, that's another one I should have added. Cause there, cause we're going to go up to modern day here where we're still, the devil is a useful tool in rock and roll. But yeah, Coven had a song called Black Sabbath.

21:27Black Sabbath comes out and basically starts a whole genre. And then in the seventies, you know, it was anything goes. As cocaine flowed freely and, you know, concerts got bigger and bigger and bigger and became a, a bigger industry. And Alice Cooper, of course, you know, kicked off a whole generation of, of, you know, I would, I guess Alice Cooper is kind of like original arena rock really, uh, with the original band. By the time billion, billion dollar babies came out, they were, that was a huge production, you know, in, in arenas.

21:58And then he kept going with welcome to my nightmare. And then kiss of course, followed right behind him. Yeah. Cause at this point, it's so much more than the music. It's a whole spectacle now. And so the way that like you hear it sometimes nowadays where people talk about like, Hey, going to this, whatever pop artist show is like some sort of ceremony or conjuring or something, you know, now it's just not a band up on stage playing. And now it's always getting his head chopped off.

22:29And I heard he likes to rip chickens apart and you know, that stuff he spits is real virgin blood and you know, all the crazy stories that go along with something you've only heard about, but never really seen. Yeah. And it was a, it was an era that couldn't be duplicated now because there's, it's, there's social media, there's the internet without the internet, you had, you know, the, the old wives tale and the rumors would grow exponentially. Especially in the, the more remote areas you went, the crazier the rumors got, at least from my own experience where, you know, kiss had been accused of being, uh, you know, Satanist or cross dressers or, um, transsexuals or all kinds of, you know, you know, was it, uh, using goat's blood for jeans, blood trick.

23:22Um, but yeah, it was just, it was crazy back in the day where like the more rural the area got, the crazier these rumors got. And with kiss, you know, people ran wild with their imaginations thinking that kiss stood for something. Well, it was K I S S and they just named it kiss cause it sounded good. And that was the whole reason. Right. But the whole kids in Satan's service or nights in Satan's service became like a major catchphrase of the whole satanic panic thing.

23:53Like kiss was one of the most targeted bands by this whole thing, even well after they took their makeup off in the eighties. Yeah. Well, and we're going to get to that when we get to the early eighties, cause I also have a theory on some of that, but. They, but I mean, obviously Gene Simmons image alone with the, the blood drooling and the fire breathing. He, he, he is, he's the lightning rod for all the satanic stuff. Cause if it was Paul, Peter, or Ace, you don't really see anything satanic among them. They just look like performers. Yeah.

24:24Gene looks like a straight up demon from hell, especially in the early days. So I totally get why parents were freaked out by him. Um, hell I was freaked out by him before I became a fan even. Um, but no, it was, it was a weird time. And like Alice Cooper, I think got a little bit of that, but he was, I don't know. I almost think he was viewed more as vaudevillian than, uh, than kiss. You know, I think kiss kind of took the crazier angle, but you look at kisses music. There's really not a lot of satanic sounding God of thunder is the closest thing you're really

24:57going to find or almost human. I guess I think the biggest difference between Alice Cooper and kiss is that kiss appealed to a younger audience. And that's kind of, it was, it was parents of younger kids going, I don't know if you should, this seems like something, you know, your older brother would be okay listening to, but the kids fell in love with kiss because of how they looked. And you know, then when they're younger kids in the car, I don't know if I should let you listen to kiss. Yeah. And what with kiss, it was so striking because Alice Cooper, like, yeah, the whole band, the

25:31original band dressed up, but not, not like Alice did with the face paint. So, I mean, imagine going from that being shocking to here's four guys in your face and one dude's drooling blood. And that's, that had to have been a shock. I mean, I'm jealous of anyone who got to discover either of those groups back when they were in their prime, you know, that must've been amazing. Oh, for sure. I can only imagine.

25:56We'll return after these messages.

26:01Warning signs of satanic behavior may be apparent, such as a sudden, bitterly antagonistic attitude towards family and religion, a drastic decline in academic performance, a reclusive behavior pattern, and listening exclusively to heavy metal rock music, almost to the point of addiction.

26:26When one or more of these warning signs are evident, you should look further for ritual items, such as a pentagram or other satanic symbols, black or red robes, a decorative dagger or knife, a chalice or goblet, black candles, a personal diary with a black cover, which is called a book of shadows, and copies of publications, such as the satanic Bible and the satanic rituals,

26:57and possibly a small makeshift altar. If you discover items such as these, experts advise you contact your local law enforcement agency at once. Rock and roll as you've never seen it before.

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27:46Order both and receive a special limited edition Striper pin, absolutely free. To order, call now, 1-800-233-3600, or send $19.95 for each tape, plus $2 postage and handling to Enigma mail order, Department O, Post Office Box 3628, Culver City, California. Rock for the ages from Enigma music video. Rock for the ages from Enigma music video.

28:381980 was Back in Black, and the big single, Hell's Bells, you know, also kicks off a whole other wave of panic.

ACDC and the Satanic Panic

28:46I do remember parents not liking this song. Yeah. You know, you got me ringing Hell's Bell. This song is, it was, if God's on the left, then I'm sticking to the right, is one of the lyrics. I know that caused a little bit, but ACDC, I guess while we're on the subject, I remember there was a group, faction of people that thought ACDC stood for After Christ, Devil Comes. Yeah, I remember that. And the other one I saw that I didn't remember was Antichrist, Devil Child.

29:19I hadn't heard that one. No, but I definitely remember the first one. But then around this same time, late 70s, that's when the Peter, Peter's Brothers from Minnesota, kind of spring into action. And starting in 79, they used their Truth About Rock seminars, books, and recordings to become prominent figures in the anti-rock movement of the 80s. Yeah. And they warned that rock music, especially hard rock and metal, promoted a cult influence, subliminal messaging, and moral corruption, helping spread church-based anti-rock activism

29:52far beyond the local level. Are you ready for Truth About Rock?

29:59Truth About Rock, the rock music seminar that has swept the nation. The Peter's Brothers seminars and bonfires have drawn press attention from coast to coast. Watch as they expose the flip side of the rock industry, the world of double meanings and double standards, backward masking and backward morals. Over $5 million worth of rock and roll has been burned after these seminars. Don't miss Truth About Rock.

30:28And I went back and listened to a little bit of the Truth About Rock. And it's funny, looking back on their history, you know, the crescendo for people, like you and me, was they ended up interviewing KISS. I think it was during the Lick It Up tour, maybe the Creatures tour. I had the cassette tape. Did you? Yeah, I had the cassette tape. I was trying to think so hard of how I got it or where I got it. But I had, it was, it was purple and it had KISS written in white.

30:59It wasn't the actual KISS font. But I remember having it and listening to it a lot when I was a kid. But to me, it was just like another thing about KISS. It was another collectible. Exactly. Yeah, it totally was. I bet there's a lot of KISS fans out there that probably still got that. And I seen that, I seen that it is on YouTube. Yeah. Yeah, I was listening to it yesterday. And, but that's true. It is another interview. And I was actually pretty impressed with how Paul and Gene handled themselves in the interview. We believe that people have enough common sense to find out what works for them and don't need self-proclaimed leaders standing on soapboxes.

31:36But you don't consider yourself a leader. Hiding behind religion and becoming self-ordained ministers in their own churches and saying that they have a direct line to God. We certainly don't do that. I still think you're here is too long, Dan. For a preacher, come on. Come on. What does God mean to you, Gene? We're in a rock and roll band. And I would no sooner ask a plumber about politics than I would a rock and roll band about religion. Yeah. You know, they were not afraid to get back in the guy's face. And this was a case where, here's where I'm going to defend Paul and Gene, and then I'm also going to, not damn them, but like give them some shit.

32:15So during this era, the Peters brothers and KISS both saw an opportunity. That's my theory. The Peters brothers were on a crusade to do this thing. But the thing is, like, if you listen to the Peters brothers tape, the whole beginning of it is them touting how many different seminars they've done, how many thousands of people have come out to these seminars, and how they've spread the message. And I'm thinking, I'm betting they did not do these seminars for free, right? No way. No way.

32:45Yeah. Everybody, you don't get paid to go do speeches for free and hold seminars for free. You've got to get paid to do that. Exactly. These guys, they definitely saw an opportunity. And in a lot of ways, they're not too much different than the bands themselves. They're promoting their live appearances. They're trying to sell their cassette tapes and their t-shirts and all that stuff. So, I mean, maybe their hearts were in the right place, but they were also capitalizing off of it, too. Because also, like, when you listen, like, to the way they present it, first it's that intro with all them touting how successful they've been doing this, and then it's them talking about, like, getting you ready for the interview, going, well, hey, we met up with Kiss, and we went backstage, and we saw them, and how does it feel to know that, you know, that you were in the same room with Gene Simmons and Paul Stanley?

33:37And I'm like, these guys sound like fans. Right. It's like, I'm almost thinking they wanted to be near fame and achieve fame for themselves, and I think that was a big motivator for those guys. They definitely did it. I wonder what these guys are up to nowadays. Like, whatever happened to the Peters brothers? Does anybody out there know whatever happened to the Peters brothers? Baco, do they live in your neighborhood? They might. I don't know. Well, I did see, I should have looked further into what they're up to now.

34:08I know they did, they were on somebody's podcast a couple of years ago, so I think they're still doing the same thing they've always done, or they're doing some other Christian grift. I don't know. Man, remember in the 80s when all the music we hated was so much better than it is now? Yeah, exactly. The truth about corn. You've written all the truth about, I don't know what's, Ariana Grande or something. Take the next few minutes to examine rotten songs like Olivia Newton-John's About Intercourse, Alice Cooper's song about necrophilia, which is making love to a dead body, Prince's about incest, which is making love to your own sister, Alan Parsons' song about the wonders of bestiality.

34:53Hear how Aerosmith likes girls who are bleeding, Ted Nugent on masochism, which is pleasure in sex through pain, the village people stand on homosexuality, Elton John's endorsement of prostitution, the Rolling Stones' sympathy for Satan, Fleetwood Mac songs which promote witchcraft, or those clean-cut Australians, ACDC, who encourage oral sex. I'm just grateful that, you know, that whole thing was really what kind of led me to rock because, like I said, when I was a little kid, I liked Kiss because I liked listening to the music and I liked the way they look, but I was a little kid.

35:31And then I stopped listening to music for a while, and then one day at Sunday school, well, it was Saturday school for us, the preacher brings out the list and he's like, hey, I want to talk to you about the music you listen to. So it had to have been like a pamphlet from the Peters brothers. Probably. And so he starts asking us, like, hey, what are you kids listening to? And, of course, it's like Madonna, and they're like, oh, well, you know, there's a little so bad stuff, you know, and then they're going through all the pop bands, and then he gets to me, and I'm thinking, you know, what do I like, you know?

36:07And I was like, well, I got all them Kiss records at home, so I say, well, I kind of like Kiss. Kiss, and he goes, oh, I've been waiting for somebody to say Kiss. Did you know? You know, and he starts going down, you know, what's written about him in this pamphlet, and it's kind of like that movie. It's like, do you know what a love gun is? You know, and it's like when he tells me, then it registers because I never really thought about what these words mean or anything, you know, or any of that stuff.

36:37I just heard the music. It was background music for me looking at pictures of Kiss. And, you know, when he smartens me up to all this stuff, what's the first thing I do when I get out of there? I run straight home, and I open up the closet. I get up on that top shelf, and I pull those Kiss records out, and I re-listen to them for the first time in a long time with a new understanding, and now I'm in. I'm the biggest Kiss fan in the world now, you know, so now I want Kiss t-shirts, and I want to know what they're up to, and I want to get all the albums I didn't know about, and was Kiss crazy after that.

37:12And I have this era and people trying to spread the fear of rock and roll to thank for making me love rock and roll that much more. It would have been funny if the Peters brothers were just cast a blank of record staffers. It would be brilliant. It would be a brilliant move because how many other people had that same experience as me where you didn't think much of it until somebody says something to you about it, and you go, well, that's interesting. I think I want to check out this ACDC.

37:43I want to check out this Alice Cooper and Zeppelin and all that because it's interesting to know that people are scared of them. Oh, it's like the forbidden fruit, right? Yeah, right. The thing that they tell you not to mess with, but it looks so cool and sounds so good that you just got to. Well, and that's what Kiss was banking on because around that same time, it wasn't just the Peters brothers that were picketing Kiss. It was a lot of different churches, and if you're a longtime Kiss fan and you collect bootleg videotapes,

38:18you remember all the news clips, especially through the Midwest, of people protesting Kiss concerts in the Deep South and the Midwest. And my theory on this, though, is I don't know if Kiss was planning any stories about this, but it was one of those things where I think they welcomed the controversy because they were having a really tough time touring at that time. So I think getting on the news, even if it is being called Satanic, they probably viewed it as a plus as compared to a minus

38:51because it gave them more media attention than they had in a long time. Are you talking about Kiss in the 80s after they take the makeup off? Like, oh, like during the Creatures Tour around that time, like there was a lot of news stories that came out about, oh, this church showed up in this city and this church showed up in this city. And I was like, I think they were much like with the Peters brothers. It was like, well, we'll both get publicity out of this. So let's just go, go with it, you know? Yeah, true. I mean, otherwise, if Kiss probably ain't on the six o'clock news, if not for that stuff in 82, 83.

39:24Right. And also in 1982, and this is where my recollections of stuff that happened come into being, Iron Maiden released the Number of the Beast in March of that year. And, of course, the title alone would scare people. Yeah. And the cover art would trigger protests and boycotts. But for me personally, I don't know if it was 82. It might have been 83 when I saw it. I think it was around 83 when I saw the video for the Number of the Beast.

39:54Yeah. On MTV. And it was like midnight. Midnight, I was up way past my bedtime watching MTV, and it scared the hell out of me.

40:07I remember getting those Iron Maiden records from my Uncle Bruce and sitting in my room by myself, and it's on the turntable, and I'm thinking, am I going to go to hell if I listen to this? Yep. That was a real feeling that we had back in those days. It was like, oh, I'm doing something really wrong here. You know, am I really tempting fate by listening or watching this? Yeah, crazy. I'm sure glad my mom sat down with me one day and said, hey, you know, because obviously all parents are hearing about this stuff, and she knows that I'm listening to Kiss and, you know, stuff I'm getting from Uncle Bruce, Ozzy, all that stuff.

40:45And she says, you know, there's a lot of these songs that you listen to kind of sing about bad stuff, you know, and this and that. And I go, oh, Mom, it's just music. It don't mean nothing. She's like, well, you would never, like, kill yourself or nothing over listening to music. I said, no, of course not. It's just music, you know, and she's like, okay. And she never told me there was anything that I could or could not listen to. Well, it's interesting you bring that up. Another lightning rod of attention in the 80s, and it would sometimes be tied to Satanism, was Ozzy Osbourne.

41:18Yeah. And he was right in the middle of that whole era. And, of course, the bat-biting incident in 82 did not help his case. But in 86, that's when the Suicide Solution lawsuit happened. And news reporting started, you know, saying that he was putting satanic messages in his songs and stuff. And he had to really come out a lot more strongly in the media and, you know, deny being satanic. I remember a lot of that back in those days.

41:50Yeah. And, you know, I have it later in the list. But, like, a few years later was the Judas Freeze trial for Better By You Better Than Me having backwards messaging. And that was another ridiculous, you know, that was the furthest, that was the furthest taking of, you know, how ridiculous the satanic panic got. Because it was a real reach trying to make that come out like, you know, somebody should kill themselves over listening to a damn song.

42:20Right. Yeah, they just took the title. Well, it was the 1980s version of just reading the title of the news story and getting upset.

42:31It's what that was. They saw the name of the song and were like, oh, this is about killing yourself. But really, if you listen to the lyrics, it's about drinking yourself to death and telling you not to do it. But, you know, that kind of helps cement Ozzy's infamous, you know, legend of that time.

42:52I mean, that was the other thing, too, you know, and I've told the story on here probably a hundred times. When I first got Ozzy records from my Uncle Bruce, my dad said, what'd you get? And I said, Ozzy Osbourne. He said, well, I don't know if I should let you listen to that. And it's like, man, he was so terrifying in those days. Like, people legitimately were really scared of Ozzy Osbourne, probably more than any other band of that era. Like, Ozzy probably got attacked more than anybody during the Satanic Panic, the height of it.

43:24He was like the poster child. And, you know, his stuff, his lyrics are all pretty tame. You know, there ain't nothing really crazy in Ozzy lyrics. So, I mean, I guess just because of the bat and the doves and, you know, him being crazy all the time, people just got freaked out by him. And like I said, you know, like when he's got his TV show in the 2000s, I'm like, damn, when I was a kid, Ozzy Osbourne was a man to be feared and respected.

43:55Yeah, and now he's America's favorite dad. Yeah, I didn't like that stuff because I kind of liked my Ozzy when people were afraid of him. Yeah, well, it definitely changed his image for sure. Yeah. He didn't have the same image after that. Maybe in the long run that was a good thing. But, yeah, back when it started, though, I remember I was just like you. I was like, oh, man, it's going to totally ruin his legacy.

44:18He's the prince of darkness, you know. But then he became kind of a lovable uncle for everybody. But, yeah, he was in the middle of it. And then 85 is the year that everything kind of hits its peak, in my opinion, at least for our childhood.

PMRC Hearing and the Filthy Fifteen

44:32You know, you've got the PMRC hearing that took place September 19, 1985, the Parents Music Resource Center, led by Tipper Gore, wife of Al Gore, and other wives of politicians in Washington that had nothing better to do. And they decided to put together a list of what they called the Filthy Fifteen. And I want to go through, I want to read off the list, and then I'll just have you react to it after I read the Fifteen, okay?

45:03Yeah. So, we've got Prince, Darling Nikki, Sheena Easton, Sugar Walls, Judas Priest, Eat Me Alive, Motley Crue, Bastard, ACDC, Let Me Put My Love Into You, Twisted Sister, We're Not Gonna Take It, Madonna, Dress You Up, Wasp, Animal Fuck Like a Beast, Def Leppard, High and Dry Saturday Night, Merciful Fate, End of the Coven, Black Sabbath, Trashed, Mary Jane Girls, In My House, Venom Possessed, Cindy Lauper, She Bop, and Vanity, Strap On, Robbie Baby.

45:33Yeah, I mean, most of those, I guess, like, I look, well, what's wrong with High and Dry? Oh, that's about drinking. We're not gonna take it, what's that? You don't want you to be rebellious? Like, Bastards About Murder, and Let Me Put My Love Into You, and Eat Me Alive, and Sugar Walls, and Darling Nikki, we all know what those songs are about. I'm thinking these wives weren't getting enough action back in those days.

46:00Yeah, maybe, maybe. But none of them looked like Sheena Easton, either, for their discredit. And they should have paid more attention to the lyrics than Sheba. Yeah. They would have been a lot happier in the long run.

46:16Oh, man, kind of hard to argue against Venom and Merciful Fate, though. I mean, they wore it on their sleeves, for sure. Those were definite satanic bands. It's kind of a good thing they had Dee Snider do the testimony instead of King Diamond. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that would have been interesting, though.

46:37You're damn right. The funniest part, though, is like, Dee Snider, I get, all those, like, we're not going to take it, though. The only thing you can argue about with that is it's anti-authority. Yeah. It's like, so I guess that's what it's about. But then you've got Frank Zappa on here. Frank Zappa testifying, and then also John Denver testifying. And it's like, you're taking shots at those guys, really? I think one of them was an instrumental song, I think. Well, and that was kind of the beauty of having, like, well, Dee Snider was well-spoken, which was cool.

47:11You know, they made it, especially in retrospect, you look back and go, well, that was a good guy to have do that because he was well-spoken and didn't come off as just, like, some meathead metal-loving guy. But then you stick John Denver in there, and it's like, that's kind of reverse psychology. Like, we're going to use your own dude against you. Because you know all them women love John Denver. And now he's in there going, well, you know, they used to say my songs were about smoking marijuana.

47:43And you all turned out okay.

47:48Oh, man. And then, of course, ultimately, it's funny how the PMRC declared it as a victory because they got the ratings of the explicit sticker instituted. But it was the biggest winners were the artists. Right. That became like a badge of honor to have that on your CD. Yeah. I mean, you would, like, look for that sticker. Like, okay, I'm going to buy that one. Like, so it just made it that much more intriguing to listen to those albums. So, and speaking of albums that released in 1985 that definitely were fit along these lines was Hell Awaits by Slayer, which came out in 1985.

48:26And you can't talk about Satan in music without bringing up Slayer, right? No, they pretty much made that their whole identity. That and damn good thrash metal. And then in 1985, just another thing that got tagged on to the Satanic Panic, even though it's a bit of a looser connection. And Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker, who got busted in 1985, he became publicly associated with ACDC, who we talked about a little while ago, because the song Night Prowler from the album Highway to Hell.

48:58Testimony later stated that Ramirez hummed the song after his arrest, and media coverage helped turn ACDC into part of the wider panic over Satanic rock. And he was definitely a known ACDC fan back in those days. Yeah, screw that guy. He made all metalheads look like bad people. He really did, because I remember, like, I'm sure a whole bunch of parents, like, suddenly got more invested in what their kids were listening to when shit like that went down, you know? Right. You don't want your kid to turn out to be a frickin' Richard Ramirez.

49:32Not at all. And then, you know, speaking of kids doing bad things, as I mentioned before, 1990, Judas Priest faced a Nevada civil trial over Better By You, Better Than Me, which is a cover song. It's not even their own song. And it was a spooky tooth song. Right. That it conflicted to the self-inflicted shootings of two young men in 1985. So it happened in 85, but it went to trial in 90. And the judge ultimately ruled in favor of the band and CBS records, but became the most famous example of backward masking panic reaching a courtroom.

50:08But yeah, I kind of remember, to me, that seemed like the end of that whole, the Satanic Panic era to me. But I've got other examples in here, too. When Satan lost in court that day, the Satanic Panic was over. By this point, also, you've got to consider that so many bands had taken on that as their chosen image. You know, you've got Motley Crue with the Pentagrams and, you know, King Diamond and all these bands that, you know, like, oh, they see it.

50:39You know, they say, oh, it was a big deal. You know, we should, if we went out there and were Satanists, you know, and made all our songs about Satan and acted like we really worshipped the devil, then we're going to get people to buy our stuff. But by then, it was kind of already faded out. Even Motley Crue only had pentagrams for a little bit. And then it's like, well, there ain't no point in having that no more. But King Diamond, he stuck it through all the way. Oh, yeah. He definitely lives the gimmick. Well, it's not a gimmick for him.

51:10Right. That's the thing. If it's not a gimmick, I mean, he's probably the only one that's legit. Well, not the only one. Because 1992, this is definitely not hard rock and metal. It's a little bit more of a black metal. In the early 1990s, a small part of the Norwegian black metal scene turned anti-Christian imagery into real-world violence. The most famous case was the 1992 burning of Fantof Stave Church, part of a broader wave of church arsons and attempted arsons in Norway.

51:43And musicians linked to it were convicted in the cases, including Varg Vakirnes of Burzum and Mayhem, Bard Faust Ethan of Emperor, and Jorn Inge Tunsberg of Hades Almighty. Unlike the American satanic panic, the Norwegian black metal church burnings involved actual crimes convicted by actual people within the scene. So these were people that really lived it. Yeah. Back in the 80s, when Merciful Fate toured Norway, King Diamond left a lot of children behind.

52:19And that's what ended up happening to them. They grew up. They had their father in them. They burnt down a bunch of churches. That's crazy. Black metal groupies. What must they be like?

52:33Terrifying. So then things kind of calmed down a little bit because grunge takes over and those guys are too depressed to even worship the devil. But then things kind of kicked back up again in 1996 when Antichrist Superstar comes out and Marilyn Manson kind of becomes the new face of Shock Rock and Satanic Panic. I guess Mark II started because I remember a lot of outrage over him when he came on the scene.

53:04In 1996, the Peters brothers looked at each other and said, we're back, baby. We're back in business. I like how you think. That's probably why they're still around. Fire up the station wagon. We're doing some seminars. But the thing with Manson, though, I don't remember him spawning a lot of other, you know, Satanic-inspired artists from him like Alice and Kiss might have. I mean, there was plenty of Marilyn Manson knockoffs that came later, but, I mean, well, yeah, like Wasp.

53:38We haven't even touched on Wasp. Oh, we talked about Animal Fuck Like a Beast on the Filthy Fist. Yeah, Wasp was pretty scary, too. Yeah, especially in the early days with the throwing the meat and Blackie would drool blood. Mick Mars would drool blood in the early Motley Crue days, too. Lizzie Borden, you know, he kind of followed that, too. Yeah, but people in the 90s were terrified of Marilyn Manson, and he's even one that had a whole bunch of weird, like, rumors about him, about his rib and all that stuff.

54:11Where, like, he became, like, it was, I remember thinking, like, wow, this must be what it was like to be in the 70s and seeing Alice Cooper. Because I always remember, like, my biggest Marilyn Manson memory was Ozfest in 97. We're in Alpine Valley, and, like, the other bands all played, no problem. Everybody's having a good time. We're rocking out. But Marilyn Manson hits the stage, and people start throwing rocks at him. Like, they had to leave the stage. It got so bad.

54:42Wow. But people were terrified of his ass, and for good reason. I mean, you look at him, same thing. Watch the music videos. If you don't know what that is, you see it for the first time, you're like, this is freaking crazy, man. There's something evil about this. But that's the way he portrayed himself. Well, I mean, if you follow his personal life, there's a lot of craziness going on there, too, according to what I've heard. Right, is that living the gimmick, or is that, you know, sometimes when you portray yourself as this character, say Marilyn Manson's a character, the way Alice Cooper was a character, then you kind of have to become that, because that's what people expect.

55:21That's what drove Alice Cooper to drink so damn much, was that he always felt like he had to be Alice Cooper all the time. And Marilyn Manson, sort of the same thing. You know, you kind of are expected to go out, especially in the 90s now, where you have to go out and do crazy things to accentuate who you are as a character, to sell more of your albums, more of your t-shirts. Man, he sold a lot. He made a lot of money off of that. But he definitely, he did have his share of outrage, as it became very noticeable in 1999 after the Columbine school shooting.

55:57I remember he was, a lot of people were pointing the finger at him, because the two kids that did it were, like, devout Marilyn Manson fans. And honestly, I thought he handled himself very well through that, because he, it was, it was about as close as we got in the 90s to the Satanic Panic again from the 80s. And people started losing their mind, but, like, he definitely did not shy away from it, and he went and spoke publicly several times. And basically, it was just like, you know, if the people that are looking at my music as what motivated this, they need to talk to their parents.

56:33The parents need to be more involved with their kids. And it's, I agree with that. You can't blame a band for the actions of your kid. You need to be paying attention to what your kid's up to, you know. But ain't that a funny tightrope now, to look at that. So, on one hand, you could say the parents say, you know, oh, yeah, this terrible thing happened, blame Marilyn Manson. But on the other hand of that, they say, hey, don't blame Marilyn Manson, blame the parents. But then, like we saw in the 80s, when the parents are going overboard, you know, trying to protect their children, and they're going way too far with it,

57:09people say, oh, them parents are so out of touch, they need to back off. But then, come the 90s, and something like that happens, and they say, maybe those parents should have been paying more attention to the kind of stuff their kids were listening to. What a crazy thing. What do you do? You know, I'm at the age now where I remember this stuff, but I'm also a parent, you know. So, it puts a whole new perspective on everything, and that's a tricky line to walk. Very tricky. We both walked it. Yes, that's what I always say. Instead of us telling all our kids how awesome KISS was, or telling all our kids, I bought a ticket, I'm going to take you to see KISS,

57:47we should have been telling them, don't never listen, don't you ever let me catch you listening to KISS. Those guys are bad, and they're evil, and don't listen to Ozzy, and I don't ever want to hear you listening to hard rock or metal music. And hard rock and metal music would probably be alive and well nowadays, because we tricked the next generation into going, yeah, them old bastards, they don't know what they're talking about, I'm going to support hard rock and heavy metal music years into the future. We really screwed up by not doing that reverse psychology thing, didn't we?

58:17We messed it up.

58:20Well, and like, you know, Manson, I remember being a big thing in the whole satanic panic with him, but then like it did, it definitely calmed down a lot for a long time. But then in 2013, a band arrived, which I'm not personally a giant fan of, just musically, Ghost came on the scene, and definitely has raised a lot of eyebrows over the years, but done nothing but grow in stature and popularity ever since. So they are as close to shock rock as you get these days, and while I may not be a giant fan,

58:51they have a massive fan base, so my hat's off to them for that. But I do like Ghost. I think they got some pretty great songs, especially the more guitar-heavy stuff I really like. Some of it's weird, not artsy, and I don't get it, but that band's got some good stuff. You know, you can cherry-pick some pretty tasty stuff out of Ghost's catalog. But, you know, it's nowadays, it's modern times. What is scary anymore other than things happening in the real world, you know? This is, you look at it, it's a gimmick, and anybody getting upset about it should be feeling pretty silly,

59:25because at this point, you gotta know, everything's a gimmick. Pretty much. Well, and like, I will say I like that song, Rats. That's a good song. Yeah, that's one of my favorites by them. But I'd like to see them live, because I heard their live show's really impressive. But, you know, I hate that the singer tried for a long time to not be seen without his makeup, but eventually he got outed, which I think is a bummer, because it's cooler when you have some mystique with your band, you know?

59:56Right. I thought it was cool they had that going for them. Yeah, not in the modern age, you know? You can't have Big John Hart breaking everybody's cell phones in half. Yeah, and then a couple other examples of more modern bands that may not necessarily be satanic, but especially the first one, but also have a lot of references to it. The Pretty Reckless, which is the band fronted by Taylor Momsen, who you may remember from How the Grinch Stole Christmas. She's their singer. But they put out some really good rock albums over the last 10 years.

1:00:29Yeah, I like them. They got a song called Heaven Knows from an album called Going to Hell. So a lot of satanic imagery and lyrical stuff, but I don't think that they're necessarily a satanic band, but they're kind of still playing off those themes, which is kind of cool. And in 2018, a band called Twin Temple put out an album called Bring You Their Signature Sound, Satanic Doo-Wop. Oh, boy.

1:00:59For real? Yeah, they've used retro early rock and doo-wop aesthetics. What?

1:01:08I love you, Satan. Doo-doo-bee-doo-doo.

1:01:13Give them a listen. You might like them. It's a little bit more than I'll be. All right. I will definitely have to check that out, because I didn't know there was such a thing. One band that embraces that kind of mythology in their music that's newer that I really like is Savage Master. They had their album last year. It was one of the top albums of the year for me last year. Their stuff is dark and spooky, and the lyrics are like, they remind me of some Sabbath and some Motley Crue early days stuff. And I really like that band, Savage Master.

1:01:46So if you're into, you know, satanic imagery and you're hard rock, that's a great band to go to. Yeah. And, you know, so we're kind of at the end of our list, but I am very interested to see what the comments are going to be like for this, because I'm sure we've missed out on a few very interesting things. And let us know what we hit, what we didn't hit, what you wanted us to expound on, because this is a big subject, you know, this is one we've been kind of getting ready for for a while. So interesting to have episode 666 in the books,

1:02:17and this was a fun one. Yeah. So I'd just say after all the accusations, the seminars, the late night recording spin sessions backwards, what do we learn from all this? Well, we learn that if people tell you what to listen for, you're probably going to hear it. If you play a song backwards, it's just noise. But if someone tells you something sinister, maybe all of a sudden you hear it. You know, artists like Ozzy Osbourne and Juice Priest found themselves in court. The fans of Kiss and ACDC found themselves defending the music they loved.

1:02:48An entire generation was told what they're hearing might be dangerous. But I think the truth is the danger was never in the records. It was about fear of change and fear of youth. And fear of something that can't be controlled. That's the fear of rock and metal music. Don't fear it. Embrace it. Embrace it with us. The Decibel Geek Podcast. We've been here for 666 episodes. And by the grace of God, maybe a little help from the devil, because he's got so many great songs written about him.

1:03:19We can keep this thing going for many, many episodes to come.

1:03:24See you in hell. See you in hell, my friend. See you in hell, my friend. See you in hell, my friend. I'll see you in hell. See you in hell, my friend. See you in hell, my friend. See you in hell, my friend. I'll see you in hell, yeah.

1:03:48See you in hell. See you in hell. It's your choice of ten, how many sins can be yours Pop my kingdom for your choice, it's yours You can fix it Oh, no

1:04:20The music is reversible, but time does not turn back Turn back

1:04:51Turn back Turn back

1:05:56The infinite spaces that they explored in the giant now is part of what made that explosion So huge