Band Wars - Ep659

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1:00This is the Decibel Geek Podcast with Chris Sinzak and Aaron Camaro.

1:15And we're back for another rock and roll episode of the Decibel Geek Podcast. My name is Aaron Camaro, joined as always by my awesome rock and roll friend. Loves to talk about rock and roll. Hey, me too. That's probably why we're such awesome friends. It's Chris Sinzak. What's going on, brother? Oh, not much. Aaron and I had the rare occasion to actually meet up in person recently. And you know what we did during that time? We talked rock and roll. To the dismay of our wives.

1:45Yeah, pretty much. But it was a good time. It is funny. It is funny. We get on here every week. We record the episodes, you know, and we're talking about rock and roll all the time. And then we meet up and we get together. We're going to sit down and have a meal together. And we just talk about rock music the whole time. Yeah, another thing we talked about was, well, we were going to do a Best and Worst of Bon Jovi. And then the more we thought about it, we're like, much like Queensryche, where I think,

2:17you know, it's just one of those things where I think we both want to be on board for it. Hold on. Hold on one second, damn it. What? I've already gone a good ways into my homework for that episode. There's no turning back now. Oh, I didn't know you actually had. Yeah, no, I started it already. Oh, okay. You know, so, I mean, I'm in it now. We got to finish it. Okay, well, I'm halfway through mine, too. I just stopped. I'm like, okay, well, we'll put that off to the back burner. But no, I didn't know you had actually started putting stuff together. But, well, all right, in the future, you'll get a Best and Worst of Bon Jovi.

2:50Yeah, yeah, we'll do a Geek Wire and a Times and then come back and hit you with that. That ought to be fun. Well, you know, and you guys want us to be honest. So, if one of us thinks something sucks or something's awesome, we're going to say so. Yeah.

3:09Fair warning, as David Lee Ross said. Like I said, yeah, I've been doing the homework. I've put in the pain. We're doing this. So, you're not a Bon Jovi fan yet? No, no, no, not especially. But I'm going to save all that. I'm going to let it build up and fester inside me for in a couple of weeks when we do that episode. Then I'll let it all out. They'll win you over in the 2000s albums, I'm sure. Oh, I bet. Yeah, I can only imagine.

3:39So, thankfully, we're only going to do the first half of the discography, not the second. But we can always come back and do the second. You know, we did the unpopular Aerosmith ones, and that show was popular as hell. It just cracks me up how people like hearing us talk about stuff that sucks more than stuff that's awesome.

4:00They hate us. They want to see us suffer. I guess so. Why? What have we ever done? Says the guy who assigned the Cobras and Fires guys some of the most awful records for their March Badness thing. That's true. That's true. I love to see those guys suffer, too.

4:20We're always at our most funny when we're in pain, it seems like. Maybe. I'm stoked to do Bon Jovi. Oh, the first half of the Bon Jovi. Even I will not be as on board for the second one. It depends on the demand. But anyway, we're not doing Bon Jovi today. No, talking about disputes and pain and anger and disappointment. We're talking about some of the biggest feuds in rock and roll history today. We're just going to hit some random ones. And in the end, you guys can hit us up because there's so many.

4:51There's so many. Let us know what we missed at the end of this so that we can come back with a part two, probably three, four, five. Who the hell knows? They never stopped fighting, so we can always talk about it. Oh, and with the bands that we follow, it's rich for stories. And they just continue to go on and on. So we will not hit everything, but that's intentional because this is something we both think would be a very easy series because it never stops. And also, it's called Engagement. Tell us in the comments who we missed out on, who you want us to talk about that feuded over the years because there's so many great ones out there.

5:26Yeah, because everybody knows here at the Decibel Geek Podcast, we love the feedback. That's why we kick off every single episode with a look back at some recent stuff that we've done and some cool comments we've got on things. I got one here from Mark Alden-Taylor from the Freeform Rock Podcast. He says, guys, driving and crying, the main songwriter is doing a cover album of his own songs with different artists re-recording them. That's pretty cool. Kind of like Kiss My Ass. Yeah. The Black Crows even covered one, and it was really good.

5:58That's cool, man. I got to check that out. And they also had another hit off that album called Build a Fire. That's another good song. I like that, too. So they're definitely not one-hit wonders. Chris Robinson has said that when the Black Crows were coming up in the Atlanta area, the guys from Driving and Crying were one of the biggest bands that they looked up to. So, I mean, dig into it one time, Chris. I love it. I need to check out more. The times I've tried listening to them, but it's been like 10 years. Maybe I just wasn't in the right headspace for it.

6:29It just didn't click with me all. I mean, they're good. They're talented guys. It's just the music didn't fully click with me. But, yeah, they are kind of Atlanta legends. But, yeah, I'll give them a chance more since you said so, Mark. I'm not listening anymore, Sammy, though.

6:44You've got to draw that line somewhere. Only if it's the soundtrack for Benji the Haunted. Right. Yeah. Awesome. I've got a good comment here from Chad Hill. He says, great episode. He's going to see White Lion in April, and he's going to be sporting his Decibel Geek podcast. He's going to look so cool. Mike Tramp's going to, like, march right up to him and be like, there's something about you, man. There's something about you. I just got to meet you. That could happen to you, but only if you're wearing a Decibel Geek t-shirt. So, go get yourself one, and you yourself will be having a good time like Chad Hill.

7:15He says, if I do get to meet up with Mike Tramp, I'm going to recommend him to listen to your White Lion episode. Keep up the great work. I sometimes wonder about that. Like, you do an episode like that, and it's like, does Mike Tramp ever happen to hear it? Somebody's got to bring it to his attention, right? I'll bet that the best and worst shows have gotten listened to by band members, just because I'm sure they're genuinely curious. What do these guys think is the best and the worst? Right. I wouldn't be surprised if, at least, or people that are connected to them have heard them.

7:45Right on. Thanks, Chad. Have a good time at that show. Got a comment from Rick Friel. He says, thank you for remembering Phil. Talking about Phil Lynette from Thin Lizzy. And he also says, also, I think it was on this episode you mentioned Robin Zander had put out a solo album. We were talking about that at the top 10 albums of 2025. Yeah. That's what I'm trying to think of. And we said, well, Robin Zander put out an album this year. Neither one of us remembered it. Turns out, it wasn't Robin. It was his son, Robin Taylor Zander.

8:18It's his second album, Rick informs us, and it's really good. And I said, well, that makes sense. You know, we got to check that out. He says, both them albums are really good. He thinks the first one is a little bit better, but the guy is incredibly talented. We're supposed to let him know what we think when we do check it out. So everybody check that out. Robin Taylor Zander, the son of Robin Zander from Cheap Trick. Putting out great rock and roll music, according to Rick Friel. I got to take his advice on that and check it out. You know, I got fooled by that earlier in the year.

8:49Like, where I was like, is that Robin Zander? And then I remember research, because I was like, I want to hear a Robin Zander solo album. And then I looked at, oh, it's his son. And then I didn't listen to it. I probably should, though. And awesome to hear from Rick Friel. I'm friends with him on Facebook, but I didn't know he was a listener. Do you know that he's like, he was part of that whole Seattle scene and was like friends with all the Mother Love Bone Pearl Jam guys back in the day? Right on. No, I did not know that. Yeah, he's connected that whole scene. So really cool to know that you listen, Rick. Hi. We should bring Rick on the show one time.

9:21Yeah, I'm sure he's got a million stories. Shoot, yeah. That sounds cool. I see there's one comment missing on here, and I just got to call attention to it, because for once, I got called out on being wrong about something, and I actually had the backup to prove that I was right. So nine times out of ten, when somebody says, Aaron Camaro, you big dummy, you messed that up, all I can do is come back and say, I'm sorry. Oh, I wasn't intentional. I just missed it. Nine times out of ten, it's probably true.

9:53Same here. But this one time, I get nailed with dubious facts, Camaro, and I was like, wait a minute. I know this is true. And I was asked about the authenticity of saying that the Born Again album from Black Sabbath originally wasn't supposed to also be a Black Sabbath album, but Tony Iommi said it himself, so I'm going to take his advice that says in the end, it was the record company that said, nope, this has got to be called Black Sabbath, and everybody was mad about that

10:23too. They fell for it twice. Wow. Yeah. So for once, I can cite my sources and prove that I was right about something.

10:37I love it. Oh, man. That's cool. Well, no, I'd missed it, honestly. I would have put it in there if I'd noticed it. I got one more for you. Oh, yeah? The amount of people that reached out thinking about the song Nantucket Sleigh Ride and the title of the Mountain album.

10:59Mighty K. Here's the name Nantucket Sleigh Ride in their minds. Where do they immediately go? Oh, that sounds like a sexual position.

11:10More than one of you reached out and said that exact same thing. Did we figure out what it is? Well, I mean, depends on who you ask, I guess. Somebody let us know what it is. No, no, don't let us know. On second thought, that's a terrible idea. We don't want to know. I mean, I do know there once was a man from Nantucket. Mm-hmm.

11:33I've heard. I've heard.

11:37So other than that, man, thanks, everybody, whoever reaches out and gives us crazy comments and funny stuff to think about and recommendations and all the good stuff that we get when you guys interact with us. I love it. We love it. It's great. So, you love to help sell and make us feel good by interacting with us. Here's another good way that you can help out your boys here at the Decibel Geek Podcast. We've been doing this for a long time, but hey, we always want to grow and bring more people

12:08to the party. And, you know, there's lonely rock and rollers out there that have no idea that there's this whole awesome community here of amazing people that love the same kind of music, that love to talk about it, interact about it, and download these episodes every week when they come out. Somewhere out there is somebody that needs your help. And it's as simple as this. When a new episode comes out, such as this one you're listening to right now, when you're done, you go back, share it on your social media. Somebody out there in a dark corner, all alone, looks at their phone.

12:41Ding, ding. Oh, wait a minute. My awesome friend is talking about something really cool. What is this? The Decibel Geek Podcast. Holy shit, they've been around for 15 years and got 600-some episodes. My life is good. And that was all because of you, because you shared the episode. And with an honor like that, for people that are so cool to do something like that, well, damn it, we just got to mention your name at the top of the show, because you truly are the Geeks of the Week. Geeks of the Week this week are Adam Cox, Rockin' Ron Runyon, Kristen Schimbeck, Eric

13:14Luzier, Boris Petrovsky, Al Horta, Shea Hargett, Samuel Wetz, Brian Nepp, Mark Starsky, James McElhenney, Aaron Baker, Eddie Denches, Sit and Spin with Joe, and Obscuria Podcast, Tom Logsdon, John Phillips, Boris Petrovsky, Mark Alden-Taylor, Freeform Rock Podcast, Jeffrey Mendenhall, Dodd Vernon, Mike Parnell, Shane Hebert, The BS Sessions, Eric Senzak, David Cathy, Ralph Vieira, Bill Wang, Will Honeycutt, Joseph Capone, Whiting Guitar Works, Vet Halen, Tom Smoke, Belmondo, Jay Shabluski, Ernesto Aguiar, Jeff Taylor, Todd Herrig, Gregory Mews, Vet

13:44Halen, Whiting Guitar Works, Bill Elam, Scott Crouch, and as always, The Mooger Fugger. Oh yes, thank you so much, everybody that shares our episodes and helps us let the world know that rock and roll is good, and people still love talking about it right here on the Decibel Geek Podcast. We appreciate you very much, keep it coming, and your name will be read at the top of the show. You gotta love that, giving the love back to the people. Alright, enough love, let's get into the shit talk.

14:17No more love, it's time for hatred. Yes.

14:22Golly, there's so many of them. I know you've compiled a list, and you've got some of the heaviest hitters that have ever hit at each other. Wow. This is some serious stuff. I figure this is clearly going to be volume one, because something tells me you guys are going to like this episode and want more, and there's so many more examples. So I decided to start with some of the greatest hits. Some of the ones you immediately think of when you think of feuds and rock. And I'm going back to, I think it's 88, 89, or 89, 90, I'm guessing

14:55is when all this went down with Axl Rose and Vince Neal.

15:02They were really going to fight. Oh yeah. Like this fight. And there was a real, I mean, there was an understandable reason behind it, especially when you consider how popular both of them were at the time. So egos are out in full force, both of them are feeling invincible. Invincible, see what I did there? And Izzy Stradlin is the shit stirrer in the story. So I did share a link and Aaron, do you want to try to play about it? The MTV devoted three minutes and we're going to listen to it for a new segment

15:32about this, which I just think we lived in such better times. There's been bad blood between these two bands for at least the last three years. Ever since Gunn's guitarist Izzy Stradlin reportedly put some rude moves on Neil's wife, the former exotic performer Cherise, at a Los Angeles rock club called The Cat House. Several months later, when Stradlin and Rose made an appearance at the MTV Video Music Awards show, Neil was lying in wait when they came off stage and hit Stradlin with a sucker punch. Then in an interview with MTV News that aired last September, Rose had this to say about Neil.

16:05It's funny because Izzy's like going, because people think it's going to happen sooner or later or whatever. And it's like that Vince and I will get into it or something, you know, and Izzy just, Izzy laughs because he's like, that guy, you know, had a full-on free shot, you know, and hit like a powder puff, you know, and he was like, so it's like, it's pretty scary if the guy thinks about a real household, you know, I put in a magazine, you know, anytime he wants it anywhere, Atlantic City, I don't care, we'll put money on it, you know, I don't

16:38care, you know, and then he tried to turn it around and say the same thing, but, you know, the invitation's there, I'm easy to find. After mulling that over for, well, almost a year, Vince Neil, who's reportedly just separated from his wife Cherie, sat down with MTV News this week and issued this challenge. He said a lot of bad things about me the last few years and a lot of threats and even on, I remember one of your guys' shows before the MTV Awards and where he said, well, anytime, anyplace, and right now, I want to put an end to this

17:15and what I want is, Axel, if you're watching this, I want to challenge you to a fight. I'm going to give you the time and I'm going to give you the place and there's no backing out now, buddy, and it's time to put up or shut up. I like to do it at an arena where people can come and see. I'd like to have it televised. I like, I want the whole world to see this fight and it's going to be, I think it'll be great. I just, I'm really psyched

17:49for it because I need to put an end to this so there's no more, I mean, it'll end it once and for all, any bad blood between us. So let's do it. No response from Axel Rose to that challenge yet, but we will have further developments on this story on the day in rock, which moves to a new time slot of 8 p.m. Monday through Thursday this coming week, one hour earlier in the Central Zone. Wow. It's like rocking wrestling all over again. It's, it's way ahead of its time. Cause

18:21it sounds like something one of the Paul brothers would do now, like Jake Paul or Logan Paul, like trash talking, I don't know, post Malone or some shit, you know, I'm going to challenge you to a fight in an arena. And it was way ahead of its time. You have to admit for sure. Like somebody really missed out on some money on that. Yeah. Like you could have made a fortune. They should have put that together and made it happen. You know what? I really want to see though? Huh? I want to see this fight take place in 2026 with like right now. That's what we all want to see. Which one will still have a pulse at the end

18:59of this fight? Jeez. Which one can make the walk all the way to the ring? Exactly. I think Axel would kick his ass at this point. At this point, maybe. Axel's taking better care of himself. But let's go back to 1990 or whenever this was and say Axel Rose in his prime versus Vince Neil in his prime. Who wins in this fight? At that time, that's hard to know because Axel, you know, Axel's from the Midwest, Indiana, but apparently grew up tough. But Vince is from fucking Compton. Damn right. He grew up

19:34around a bunch of gangbangers. Vince would beat the living shit out of Axel Rose around this time. Back then, yeah. No, it was so entertaining. And it was like Rip Magazine and Hit Parader and all of them just ate that shit up with a spoon. And it was, we were all, we all just were ravenous for it. And like, God, I was so hoping that was going to actually happen. Yeah. That's how big metal was at that time. Yeah. That was awesome, man. Good times. I got to think, you know, listening to Vince, he truly believed he would win that fight

20:07too. Because you don't talk about like, I want everyone to see this. If you don't believe that you can beat his ass. I think Tommy Lee could have beaten both of them up without his fists. Like a good old fashioned Nantucket sleigh ride at damn Tommy Lee. I think we just redefined what that is. We're innocent in every way. Like apple pie and Chevrolet. Sweeter pies with different

20:38shapes. 48, 28, 48. In and out of town. Alibis spit like a glove. Telling your daddy not to like us. Honey, you're a lane of love. We do the bad boy boogie. Bad is bad. Bad boy boogie. Bad is bad. I've got my finger in the pot, my hand in the cookie top. It's just a lick that

21:20thing and a promise in the backseat of my car. All right. So we'll stay on Guns N' Roses because of Axl Rose. And then, you know, Gigi and then, you know, GNR, you know, cause we're going to cover bands versus other bands, but

21:55we're also going to cover bands versus that their own band. Cause there's so many examples of that. And Guns N' Roses is a classic example. Cause there's so many, I mean, pick a controversy. Um, you know, I tried to find a sound clip I used years ago on the show and I couldn't find it on YouTube today, but do you ever like, it was when, uh, he was touring for Chinese democracy and somebody in the crowd just suddenly goes, where's slash? And Axl goes, where's slash? He's in my, he's in my ass. That's where slash is. And I couldn't

22:26find the clip. It was so funny. Oh man. I wish I could have that one back. Oh man. They really traded barbs back in the late nineties. It was, I remember I just like every music magazine had a quote of Axl shit talking slash or slash shit, shit talking Axl. Like I can imagine after that's over Axl Rose walking backstage and going in my ass of all the things that I could have said, I say in, he's in my ass. Yeah. It doesn't, it doesn't look good for you. If you say that, I guess, no, that's

23:01like not really a big put down, you know, that's, Oh, he got him to the quick. He's up in his ass. Well, and I, something I had forgotten about, um, went more around the time of Chinese democracy. Remember all those leaks happen. That's how we got to hear a lot of that material years before it ever came out. And I forgot about this, but Axl was claiming slash was the cause of the leaks. He was real paranoid at the time. And then I remember slash responding to the media. He's like, I haven't heard any of those songs. I've got my own project. Why would I give a shit about leaking this stuff? I'm not making money on it.

23:35How would slash even get his hands on any of that? It's not like he's in the studio with them. Yeah. And I remember slash saying, I think Axl's lost his mind. Cause it was, he was just like, I, what motivation would I have to release that stuff? And, uh, I think we found it out later. It was Tom Zuton or it was, it was non-paid bills on a storage locker he had. And that's how a lot of it got out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not that I remember that, but yeah, no. And then of course with guns and roses, I mean, I don't know. The weirdest thing about it though, is really they all get

24:09along better now than they ever have. I mean, like they're still out there out touring again. You know, that was, that was one reunion I wasn't sure was going to happen. And it still really has it without Steven Adler, I guess. Or is he straddling or, well, I mean, I guess is he didn't tour with them on that. Not in this lifetime. So it's really not a genuine reunion because is he would have to be there, but they look at themselves like, Oh, it's Axl slash and Duff. You know, those are always the faces of the band.

24:39Oh, I get it. But is he wrote most of the best stuff, right? Yup. So you, you have to have him involved, but I, from what I gather, he doesn't even want to be a star anymore. He's happy being under unknown. Yeah. Cause he's been gone for so long as far as being in the spotlight that, I mean, he still releases his own music and it's all still pretty damn good. I love a lot of Izzy straddling solo work. Yeah. The juju hounds. Well, way beyond that even. Yeah. But yeah, guns and roses. You can't, uh, you, you can't do it.

25:12Like band feuds episode without starting with them. Really? No, no. They all hated each other and loved each other and hated each other and fought each other and caused riots together. And yeah, you got to admit though. Guns and roses has gotten more mileage off basically two great albums than any other band. That's the truth. It's wild to think about like they played stadiums. They, they were

25:43playing stadiums. Well, unusual illusion, I guess, but they got, they were playing arenas off their first record. That's the power of appetite for destruction. If they'd have never released another album after that, people would still consider them to be one of the greatest bands ever just on the strength of that damn album alone. Well, to this day, I will say to me, it's the greatest rock and roll debut album ever. Yeah. I got to agree with that. I can't think of nothing else that, yeah, nothing higher than appetite because every song is great. I don't know.

26:15There's no clunker on the whole record. It's, and some of the songs, yes, I don't need to hear sweet child of mine ever again, but it's a fucking amazing song. You know, I'm all of them. Sometimes it's easy to forget where you're going. Sometimes it's harder to leave. And every time you think you know just what you're doing, that's when your troubles exceed. They push me to the corner just to get me to fight, but they won't judge me. They preach

26:48to kill and fight all night. You can't tell me. I lose my head. I close my eyes. They won't judge me. Cause I got something I've been building up inside. I'm already gone. They're there I could get me. They won't catch me. Cause I'm innocent. They won't break me.

27:20No!

27:24No! No!

27:31No-no-no! No-no-no! No-no-no!

27:41No-no-no!

27:46Let me see your tracks! We start with Guns N' Roses, we move to the other first one that came to mind was Metallica vs. Winger. And of course Beavis and Butthead have a role to play in this too, but we'll get to that in a minute. Because the first signs I got of the Metallica vs. Winger thing was the year and a half in the life of Metallica VHS tape. You know, about the making of the Black Album.

28:17And it's the scene where they're hanging out between doing work and they're watching TV and actually they're watching footage of the Gulf War. And so that gives you an idea when this was. And for some reason they cut to Lars throwing darts at a dart board, which that doesn't seem like a big deal, but it's a big deal when it's covered by a poster of Kip Winger from Metal Edge. Right. And he says, die Kip. And I've got that clip queued up if you want to play that. The suspension of offensive combat operation.

28:48Die Kip. So die Kip. Die Kip. But, but yeah, that was the first thing. And then of course, Beavis and Butthead came back, you know, killed them off completely with Stewart's character. Was it just you think that Kip Winger was the pretty poster boy? Is that the reason why Lars singled him out? I think so. But the funniest thing and to me, you'll be mad at me for this. But if you look at Lars's photos from back then from and justice through the black album, look at his hair and look at how he's dressed and look at how he poses.

29:25He totally wanted to be one of those hard rock glam rock guys. Yeah. Watch a year and a half in the life of Metallica and count how many times Lars flips his hair back like he's fucking Dana Strom in the air.

29:41He was a poser. I'm sorry. Wow. Shots fired. I guess he was, it was all jealousy. Then he's darts of jealousy. Probably. I mean, Lars wishes. I mean, we all wish we looked like Kip Winger, don't we? Yeah. I mean, that chest hair is fricking iconic. I mean, ballet moves, chest hair.

30:04Pose for play girl. I'm sure he had no, no trouble getting laid back in those days. No, probably not. But the, so then Stewart comes on and then, you know, well anyway, Stewart killed him off with beefs and butthead, but I've got a clip from Kip on the appetite for distortion podcast, which I think is a guns and roses podcast from 2024. And if you click on the link, it's already queued up to the quote I want you to play. No, man. You could see a video on Howard Stern where he's going, man, I, I, I threw darts at Kip, but I, I did.

30:35It was nothing personal. And I, he's never apologized. I apologize. But James Headfield called me about a year and a half ago and apologized for the incident. You know, James was really cool. And I could, you know, James is the kind of guy I could totally be friends with. And he was very sincere and it wasn't like he just called to apologize and then blow me off. He's actually texted me a few times. We text every now and then. I don't think Lars would ever call me to apologize, but, you know, I don't, you know, I think everybody was just young kids and they were thinking it was funny.

31:15To me, it's not funny to, to, to slag off a fellow musician. But, you know, who knows? I mean, they were just, you know, they were just doing what they were doing. You know, I don't know. I can't answer to that. So James apologized for Lars's bad behavior. What do you think about that? That's silly. Even James must've felt so bad about it. I wonder if even at that time, James was like, man, what are you doing? Why are you giving this guy hell?

31:46But the thing is like this and, you know, and the Axel versus Vince thing, it's no wonder we're all such assholes on Facebook and X now with about this stuff. Because that's how we were brought up. That's right. These feuds were part and parcel of the scene back then. Yeah. So, I mean, as far as like messing with generation X or trying to hurt our feelings, good luck with all that. This is how we grew up. It's just funny. But although as, as we'll see, as we go throughout the show here, there was like the shit talk has not stopped.

32:22People have gotten more sensitive about the shit talk, but it's still going on today. It isn't stopping people from speaking out about things they don't like. I got a question. I don't know if you know the answer to it or not when it comes to winger and Metallica. Yeah. What came first? Lars throwing the darts at the dartboard with Kip's picture on it or Stewart's first appearance on Beavis and Butthead? Lars throwing the dartboard. Throwing the darts. Ah. I'm pretty sure. It had to be, right? Because Beavis and Butthead hadn't started in 1991.

32:53Right. And clearly Mike Judge is a fan of Metallica because he puts Metallica on one of their t-shirts. Yeah. Well, I don't know if he's a fan, but he knew that Metallica was considered the cool band and he knew Winger was considered lame. Cause like I've watched interviews with Mike Judge about this and he's like, I wasn't into any of these bands. He was into like T-Bone Burnett and Texas Outlaw Country and shit. That's why you hear, that's why you have King of the Hill with that theme song. But no, he, he didn't, he didn't even care about the scene.

33:24So he didn't see anything wrong with making fun of Winger at the time. He's like, well, they're considered the lame band. So I'll put that on Stuart shirt, not realizing that, oh, I'm going to make this band's career completely crumble. Now, of course the scene also helped with that. I wonder if Kip Winger's ever got that phone call from Mike Judge. He has not. I know for a fact. Mike Judge does not care. Yeah. You killed us. But, um, but yeah, Metallica versus Winger.

33:54That was one. I remember everyone got a big laugh out of seeing Lars throw the darts at Kip's face. Yeah. Kip got a lot of hate back in those days. Winger's more respected now than they were when they were popular. Oh, 100%. Yeah. They were, they were the punchline. It's really fucked up though. They were the punchline, but they were probably the most talented musicians of all of them. Right? Yeah. Good songwriters, great vocals, great guitars. I mean, they were a good band. I didn't give Winger their due like I should have back in those times because of stuff like that.

34:26Well, I didn't either. And like, you know, I'm, I'm like the guy who likes the power ballad and I liked them then. But even me, I was, when I saw the video for heading for a heartbreak, I was like, Oh God, that's awful. And it's actually a good song in hindsight, but at the time I was like, Oh God, this is lame. But man, Reb, Reb Beach alone. And then of course, Rod Morgenstein on drums. I mean, incredible musicians and Paul Taylor. Great musician. Shoot. Yeah. Helping write awesome songs. One of our favorite interviews, Paul Taylor. Love doing that one.

34:58Six-string shooter. Hear it screaming, slicing your head like a laser beam. It's true love when I'm drinking the metal. It makes me, makes me, makes me, makes me creep. Never let you get between me and my guitar. No, you still can try and you won't get married. Take no prisoners, open fire, battle stations.

35:32Someone's trying to brainwash me. Battle stations. Oh, yeah. Open fire, raise your fears. Battle stations. Battle stations. Battle stations. It's the season to resist. Pre-programmed morons. Computer sleep. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

36:24But, yeah, so Metallica versus Winger, that was a no-brainer, right? Right. So then we'll get into some others. I don't have sound for these, but we'll get into the discussion. Skid Row versus Bon Jovi, because if you don't know, Bon Jovi gave Skid Row their break. They let them open for them on the New Jersey tour. Yeah. But the thing is, Sebastian was with them by then, but the guy that was before Sebastian, Matt, something,

36:54they did some stuff with Bon Jovi, too, and I think it was John Bon Jovi was like, you got to get rid of that guy. Right. I think that's true. And then they met Sebastian at Mark Weiss's wedding in New Jersey, and Sebastian got up and sang with the wedding band, and they were like, holy shit, who's this guy? Because he was in Madame X back then.

37:13But Skid Row versus Bon Jovi, so there was like a good relationship initially, but after this tour, Skid Row would never open for Bon Jovi again and refuse to, and apparently it pissed off John Bon Jovi so much that he tried to blacklist them from touring. Wow. And then Sebastian would later call John a fake and corporate rock, which isn't necessarily untrue, and I like Bon Jovi. So it's got to make you think that when Bon Jovi took Skid Row out on tour,

37:44they big-timed him the whole time. They did. Because why wouldn't Skid Row just be so grateful to be there, given that this is going to make their career, which it did, to get mad about it and want to not tour with them no more? It had to have been something. There was something. Let's see if I can pull it up real fast.

38:08Yeah, Ultimate Classic Rock reported on it. I forgot about the – so Bach alleges that when Skid Row's fame began to rise and their merchandise began outselling Bon Jovi's,

38:21John ordered him into his dressing room and, quote, stared me down and said the words, I'll fucking own you.

38:30Bach then goes on to say that Bon Jovi's crew once doused him in ice milk just before he took the stage, which led him to launch into an angry rant against Bon Jovi during his set.

38:41Wow. So that's – there's a little bit. I mean, at the same time, we all know it's Sebastian Bach, so put two and two together. So – but at the same time, I know, you know, John and Richie, especially John and – well, Doc McGee more so, could be – you know, if they're giving you the break, they're not going to be super kind about it, you know. So, I don't know. Personally, I thought Skid Row – it was a good opportunity for them, and apparently they even got called back for encores when they opened for Bon Jovi, which really pissed off John.

39:14Wow. From what I've heard. But yeah, I figured Bon Jovi, 1989, his ego is at his highest. For sure. Yeah, he's a powerful dude in rock and roll.

39:27Got a lonely lady She's crying on cigarettes I got nasty, nasty habits And that's all she's going to care for me One for the money, two for the show Around and around and around we go Take a look at what you might need You better hurry and get a piece of me A big piece, baby, you know

39:58I don't have looks, I don't have money But I know one thing for sure One night Ain't enough of my life And that's the crazy thing about all these so far is that we lived in a world where these guys were so important That this was all pretty big news

40:29Well, like I said, MTV devoted three full minutes to Axl vs. Vince And it's like I even remember my parents seeing that And they were like, this is news? To me it is I'd rather hear about this in the Middle East Right? I didn't include it But do you remember the Axl Rose vs. Kurt Cobain feud? Yep, I remember that too Because I think, what, Axl Rose liked Nirvana Or at least saw that they were going to be popular

41:00And requested them to open for Guns N' Roses And Nirvana turned it down Was that what it was? I think so I just know there was a lot of hard feelings there And, well, Kurt criticized Axl Yeah Because Kurt could be pretty dismissive of people that weren't like him And that's what it was Like, Axl reached out and said Hey, you guys, we want to bring you on tour And then Kurt Cobain shit-talked the music of Guns N' Roses Yeah Well, I mean, Kurt Cobain A lot of us forget about that Before Kurt died, he shit-talked a lot of bands

41:31Yeah And a lot of scenes Like, it was all just the grunge alternative scene for him And everyone else was unimportant, according to Kurt To Kurt So it was like, we've all made him into Jesus Part 2 But, like, Kurt shit-talked a lot back in those days And then the VMA Awards You remember all the shit that went down there? Like, Kurt and Courtney were backstage And they saw Axl walk by And Frances was a newborn Their daughter And they were jokingly saying Hey, Axl, we want you to be the godfather to our daughter

42:02And Axl, like, flipped him off and walked off But And they almost got into a fight at that show Because Axl saw Not Axl Izzy got involved in the middle of that, too Let me just go stir some shit up over here And get Axl stuck in the middle of it again It's kind of funny, in hindsight, reading through this stuff Because, like, Izzy was always, like, considered the quiet guy Who never spoke in Guns N' Roses But, like, reading between the tea leaves It's like, wow, he was the shit-stirrer of the band

42:33It sounds like So how did he stir stuff up between Axl and Kurt? He talked shit about Courtney, I think I can't remember exactly what it was But I was reading through it And I'm like, god, man Izzy liked to inject himself into these situations, apparently And nobody wants to beat up Izzy So then they automatically go after Axl Yeah, he was Like, you know, I'm really mad at Izzy But I'd rather beat the shit out of Axl Rose Yeah, I guess I'll just go after him In my eyes

43:12I'm not lazy In my face It's not over I'm not over I'm not over I'm not worried Give me back my alcohol Give me back my alcohol Give me back my alcohol Give me back my alcohol Give me back my alcohol Give me back my alcohol Give me back, back, give me back, back, give me back Amalia

43:46Feel million

44:16and another greatest hit we have to touch on van halen i mean where do we start i mean i mean obviously dave i think the dave versus sammy part of it is the most entertaining part yeah for sure i mean that's been a debate that's boy been going on most of my entire life

44:46yeah like that goes back as far as i can remember because i i was just really getting into rock music around the time not long after uh 5150 came out so and that was they were all talking shit and then dave was doing his uh just a gigolo and all those videos at the california girls i remember that and i remember mtv that was when actually honestly the van halen feud might have fueled mtv news into existence because they started reporting on both of them going back and forth

45:18yeah and mtv news built up a lot after that right because that was huge news at that time like what are what's everybody up to in this whole thing you know dave's doing this and van halen's doing this and now they got sammy and you know it's just like it it just kept feeding them yeah and david lee roth is a quote machine you know so the media loved him can you imagine going back in time and somehow having the decibel geek podcast while all this is happening in real time

45:50that would have been so much fun so much fun that's why i was so jealous of mark goodman in that uh us festival footage where he's backstage with david lee roth and you can tell both of them are gacked out on cocaine yeah you can tell they're both high would have been great but we'd probably both be dead by now oh we absolutely would um but what a way to go um but uh yeah van halen versus van halen versus roth then later versus sammy i think the common denominator was eddie as talented as he was

46:24was a miserable guy through most of his life and always had a problem with people yeah he had a tough time himself though you know he wasn't exactly welcomed into the world of rock and roll you and i were just talking about this when we were hanging out the other day about guys like gary moore that wouldn't even want to talk about eddie van halen you know let alone share a stage with them or share a concert audience with them like all the old-time classic guys that he looked up to

46:56were all threatened by him oh yeah you know you're good when you piss everyone off yeah but the problem was was he was pissing off his heroes and he never meant to do that no he just wanted to be an awesome guitar player and he accomplished it and now he's out playing with guys that he considers legends and they won't even talk to him yeah no i get that and honestly he i mean he eddie did have a pretty big ego and could be pretty controlling but you're right though when you look at it in that perspective

47:27of when they were coming out i mean yeah i mean i gotta think then his big ego was as in result of that well and also he you had to have a big ego to deal with roth yeah or else you just go walk i mean you you have to toughen up to be around that guy yeah because he's he's gonna push every button you have and that's what he does i love david lee roth don't get me wrong but yeah he knows how to push buttons if you need a mentor to build your ego just hang out with david lee roth for a

47:59while watch what he does you sure that's sound advice i don't think so unless you're either walking to work tomorrow oh man offend everybody and then wonder why everybody's offended you know that's great how many times you try it said she tried to meet me but her hands were always tired if i had it all to do i'd keep it just the same

48:39but i'll fix it so you'll never leave this house of love oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh

49:09oh oh

49:24oh oh all right so another one that you have to immediately think of is the docking situation so another band that was so amazing had such great music and the two principal songwriters in the band absolutely despise each other Yeah, that's kind of the same thing as Van Halen in a lot of ways, you know, where you got the two guys that are the front men of the group, you know, when you're getting your pictures taken in magazines, they don't care about the rest of the guys, they just want

49:55Dave and Eddie, or they want Don and George, you know, and a lot of times you get those like magazine album covers like Rip or Circus or Hit Parader, and if it was Dokken that was the main band, it was those two guys on the cover. So, I mean, honestly, with both of those bands, I think it's not the same without Dave, just the same as Dokken would never be the same without Don. On the other hand, is Van Halen Van Halen without Eddie Van Halen? No freaking way. And is Dokken Dokken without George Lynch?

50:26Same thing. Uh-uh.

50:30It was so eye-opening because, you know, our friend Michael Wagner, who we had on several times back in the day before he retired, uh, I remember, like, it was one of those things where he would visibly kind of cringe whenever we would bring up Don Dokken and George Lynch, like he was having immediate PTSD when we would bring up those two names. And I remember at one point I said, uh, the dysfunctional album by Dokken. And before I could even ask the question, he just looks at me and goes, app title. Yeah.

51:01Okay. And I was like, how was that? He said, don't ask. So we wanted to do an album, albums unleashed on that one. Yeah, we did. Cause I liked that album. Don Dokken even says that's his favorite album. That's his favorite Dokken album? Yeah. Okay. He's crazy, but I like it, but it's not their best. Um, I'd have to give Tooth and Nail that, that reward. But, uh, no, yeah, Michael, you could tell it was like, he immediately like cringed. Like, oh God, those two.

51:31I mean, loves both guys. Don't get me wrong. Right. And he's seen them in the beginning. Yeah. And he's seen them fast forward all them years later when things aren't so hot for a band like Dokken. Which probably was a mind fuck for him. Cause you know, this is after their peak of success, music, you know, climate is shifting and then they come back, Michael, we want to work with you again. Let's do a new record. And he was probably stoked at first. And then they got in there and he's like, oh God, these guys hate each other. You know, I can't imagine it was always that way.

52:06I don't know. I don't know. Cause Dokken wasn't like, it wasn't like these guys all grew up together and practiced these songs in the garage and wrote the songs together and had nothing together and then made it together. Yeah. This was formed by Don Dokken. He had different players. He had the songs. And once Dokken, you know, he's got all these songs, he comes to the United States and he starts putting together a band. So, I mean, it could have been from the very beginning, Don Dokken going, man, this guy,

52:38you know, I can't barely stand to be around him, but shit, he's, I gotta have him for this band. He is the guitar player. So maybe you overlook it. Same thing with George Lynch, man. This opportunity I had with Ozzy didn't work out. I really need to hook onto something. Here's this guy. He's got a great voice, business smart. He's been at it for a while in Europe and he's got songs already ready to go. So my guitar playing brings these songs to life. I hate them, but I gotta do it.

53:11It was one of those, the sum is greater than the parts, you know? Yeah, where you're going to suck it up and take it to be able to make it. But then after time goes on, especially you talking about the time of the Dysfunction album, you know, they're not at their peak no more. So, I mean, that makes it even tougher. You know, it's, it's one thing to, you know, have to be in the same room as somebody you don't like while you're making a shit ton of money versus being stuck in the same room with somebody you don't like and you're struggling. Why am I even here? Yeah.

53:41But that album is a favorite of a lot of fans. So, you know, I love it. I still would like to do it at some point. Maybe we'll try to get Don to do it and see what he has to say. I can't be free till I know what free is I can't be me till I know who I am Do you believe there's more than what you see?

54:15All that we need Is some free association Painted pictures in a room on glass Looking through the floor apart Don't know what has brought me to this place Ecstasy could fit my eye I'm on the inside Looking outside

54:46I'm on the inside Looking up I'm going somewhere Feeling nowhere I'm on the inside Looking up Something a little more topical

55:17Because it's resulted in a Well, a half reunion Rat versus Rat Because Rat has been through a lot of drama over the years And a lot of substitutions over the years too But now There is no rat It's Piercy Demartini There is no rat Unless Bobby Blotzer decides to resurrect Bobby Blotzer's rat experience That he was Doing a couple of years ago But We're going to see Piercy Demartini in

55:50Gatlinburg in a few months Shoot, yeah I'm excited for that I've never seen Warren Demartini Well, I've seen him live at Starwood But I was so fucked up I don't really remember it Aw, dang This will really be my first time Seeing Warren Demartini And that's because Bobby Blotzer Now owns the name Rat And none of the rest of the guys Can use it? No, he doesn't own the name They can Oh I don't think Well, that's why it was called Bobby Blotzer's Rat Experience Okay So why doesn't Steven and Warren

56:21Call what they're doing? Why don't they just call it Rat? They'd have to call it The Rat Experience Or something else I think it takes So now nobody can use the name Rat Unless it's all of them together All of them that's left? I don't know I'm not their lawyer But like Okay It's been through It's been through court so many times And it's like It's kind of hard to know Who can use what They've sued each other a million times But I don't I don't think it I think it has to be Steven Juan And Bobby And Warren

56:51I think they all have to sign off to be Rat I could be I don't know I'm not speaking from knowledge here It's crazy Maybe that's one of them deals Where Steven and Warren Are looking at Bobby going It's not worth it It's not worth it To bring him Make him We gotta be in the same room with him To call ourselves Rat Forget it We're not doing it Bobby's a character And I remember Jason Green Who does a great YouTube show Called Waste Some Time With Jason Green And he's still Steven Pearce's road manager

57:21But like He worked with Rat For a long time And when Bobby was doing The Rat Experience thing He was the road manager for that For the few shows That those guys did And Bobby treated him so badly That he went on Metal Sludge And just blasted him And exposed everything And it's very entertaining to read I think it's still on there Wow But the funniest part to me Was that Bobby had a part of the show Where he was going to come out Into the front of the stage And they want He wanted to have like

57:52Simulated snow falling on the stage And then they were like