Witness with Amanda Dobbins

Introduction

0:00Blank Jack with Griffin and David. Blank Jack with Griffin and David. Don't know what to say or to expect. All you need to know is that the name of the show is Blank Jack.

0:21If we'd podcasted last night, I'd have to stay or you'd have to leave. That is the line of the movie for me. It's maybe a low energy way to start the podcast. It's the line of the movie. It's the tagline. You should have just done the tagline. Well, let me do the tagline now as an alternate. Let me do the tagline now as an alternate. I just really want to do that line.

Harrison Ford

0:40Go ahead. Do it. Harrison Ford is John Book, period. That's the biggest font. Exactly. Okay. And then right down underneath it, almost like small print on the back of a fucking aspirin bottle, a big city cop, a small country boy. They have nothing in common, but a podcast. Exactly. That's why it's perfect. Do you think putting Harrison Ford is John Book that big was them being like, we need to fucking Indiana Jones this thing. We need to sell. It's a good question. He's playing

John Book Character

1:11another iconic character. Can we gabbo them into thinking, well, I'm supposed to know who John Book is. I would like to talk about the name John Book. It's one of the great names. Incredible names. Maybe they're just so proud of the name. And it does feel like they picked the name John Book for that like franchisability, right? The Indiana Jones of it all. It's Mr. Book or just Book, you know, as Samuel calls him throughout the thing. So I do. Yes. I think that it's sort of like a big,

1:42bold Mad Libs attempt, right? You know, we have Harrison Ford. We have John Book. Yeah. A name, you know, a name you're going to know. Yeah. And the guy had had a track record at this point of already creating two fucking beyond iconic franchise characters. Right. What were you going to say, David? I'd like to know. I'd love to, you know, sit in on whatever meeting this was

Marketing Strategy

2:03back when, because it's like, yeah, how do you automatically sell this? Right. You know, like it's not, this is not, oh, we know what to do. It's about an Amish boy who witnesses a crime at a train station. And then of course the cop has to hide it. You know, like you can't do that. Giant. Right. You can't, you can't set that up in a poster. Beautiful painting of Harrison Ford's face. And if you look closely, you're like, is that an Amish boy? But even the tagline. It's just a little, yeah, it looks like Children of the Corn. Like if you just look at the boy. But it's dark, in darkness. Yeah, exactly. So it's like, it's a little abstract. I think you, look, he had just

2:34been to the Temple of Doom. And before that he had returned with the Jedi. He'd run with the blades. He'd raided the Lost Ark. Right. So like, it's one of those things where it's like, this is Harrison Ford. Right. And he's playing another guy. Exactly. I guess that really is just the overriding thing of like, you like it. Yes. When Harrison Ford plays a person with a name. I just think that Blade Runner had bombed. Yeah, Blade Runner had bombed. The others had not. Yeah. And Indiana Jones is sold on. Adventure has a name, right? Right. Indiana Jones. That if they're trying to do

3:09the like, okay, what worked, what didn't thing. They were like, will people go see a Harrison Ford movie if they feel like we're introducing him to his next guy? I think that's. Yes. I think you're totally right. Right. But you can't enumerate what the guy does because it milks a cow, you know,

Childhood Memories

3:25like fixes a car. Dances. Sam Cooke. Yeah. We'll talk about it. There's no way to explain it. And even the poster is saying like city cop country boy. Right. Right. Which is, that's, that's good. It's not a lie. No, I would hate for them to lie. But if you were to ask anyone now to describe Witness, you'd be like the Amish movie. Sure. Of course. There's no need to hide that. No, no, no. No, no, no. You'd be Sam Cooke and the Bard. No, what, here's what Witness is. If you said the Amish, people would be like the Witness people. You're right. For 20 years. It defines them. I think at this

3:59point, that's not true anymore. Yeah. But I think in the 80s and 90s, you're the Amish. Oh, from Witness. Yes. The guys from Witness. Right. This movie almost had like a Rain Man autism. Yeah. If you live in Pennsylvania, you're not like that. But if you live in Switzerland. Right. You're like, yeah, I know the Amish from Witness. From Witness. They might well be made up to me. Like maybe were they made up for that movie? Is that a real thing or not? I don't even know. Who knows? No one knows. I don't think I'll be astonished if JJ has a definitive answer. If in his research, he found out for certain whether or not the Amish exists. It's an unanswerable question. We pay a researcher.

4:36It's just beyond his ability this week. You ever been to Amish country? I haven't. You're

Personal Experience

4:41married to a Pennsylvanian. Well, yes. So I have been to 30th Street Station. Of course. A gorgeous station. Which is where the inciting incident. And I'm here in New York with you guys, which is so lovely. And I've been sitting with my sister-in-law, Ruthie, also a native Philadelphian. Right. And she was telling me, both she and Zach, my husband, said, yes, this movie was shown to us as a Philadelphia movie. Wow. It is. We were sat down at a young age and we were like, Philadelphia. My friend who lives in Philadelphia, I texted her right away, I'm watching a Philly movie, baby. And yes, it's like only 20 minutes worth. Sure. But then

5:12what Ruthie told me that my husband had not told me, and maybe doesn't recall, is that my husband was then terrified to go to the bathroom at the 30th Street Station for many years. Does the bathroom look like that or is it a set? I mean, I assume now it does not have wooden saloons. Well, I actually haven't been in the men's bathroom at 30th Street Station. Do your research next time you come to my podcast? I honestly don't know if I've been in the women's bathroom either, but I think- Being a bit of a JJ now. You know, I do think that it's on the outside. You know, it looks the same. Sure.

5:46And that's enough for him to say, I don't want to do it. This also ties into the fact that I believe my father-in-law was showing them movies a little bit sooner than perhaps they were emotionally ready, which is like what we did in the 80s, right? Look, I don't know. You're a mother, you're a parent to kids. Yeah. I mean- You're constantly like, is this the moment for this or are we not ready for this? I'm not really. I'm just like, here is the first hour of Top Gun Maverick because you like airplanes. Um, and, and also I have found that there's my older son is three and

6:19a half now, but for a while he didn't understand the concept of scary. No, they don't. They don't know until for a while. He didn't know to be scared and he wasn't engaging with the emotional stuff. And then that, that appears later. Yeah. So there was like a lot of stuff at age two and a half that he could be into. And now, and now he's like, I can tell that everyone is like, is very tense and, and I don't like this.

Parenting

6:44Well, it's like that thing when a kid falls and they can't decide whether or not to cry. Yes. Totally. Right. Totally. And you go like, you're okay. You're okay. Yeah. And they go like, okay. But also Halloween decorations. Mm-hmm. He's still like everything that's supposed to be gory and gross. He just toddles right up and is like, Hey, look at these lights. He likes the design. You know? Like, because he doesn't know that it's supposed to be grotesque. He hasn't, it's, it's learned behavior, I guess. My, my, uh, 10 year old little cousin, uh, who I take to movies a lot. Uh, his dad, when

7:15I was growing up, was the one who took me to movies I shouldn't see and slid me Guns N' Roses albums and whatever. Awesome. And I dropped him off after a movie and he and, uh, his wife, we're not arguing, but we're like, we want your opinion on this because we've been going back and forth. And for years it had been like, Hey, don't show George this. He might be too young. Like I was like very respectful, but they seemed very cautious about what was being fed to him. And they were like, am I crazy in thinking that in our side of the family, the tradition is everyone sees everything too young. Yeah.

7:45And I was like a little bit of it. There were certainly things my parents banned, but then like R-rated comedies, this and that. And he was like, and none of us turned out fucked up. Right. And I'm like, I don't know. We can debate this. And then between that conversation and the next time I saw George, he had seen every R-rated movie on the planet. Well, that's how we did it in our generation, right? And he seems to be doing well. Nothing's wrong. Don't, don't make that face, David. You're not hanging out with George. He's doing great. We're all fucked up is all I want to say. I'm fucked up? Of course I'm fucked up. But we have incredible taste.

8:15We do. You know? We're professional podcasters. And we like things for grownups. And now there was either, even, even the stuff for kids in the 80s was really weird. That's the real problem. That's the big problem. Is that the problem? Or is that a- Well, that was the, that was the tenor of, yes, exactly, of children's entertainment. And now everything is for eight-year-olds, whether you're three, eight, or 42. It's interesting. I saw Tron Aries. Which I'm not yet, by the way. It's your relations, by the way. I know. And of course, this is posting six months after it's released.

8:46But, you know, that's a film for teenagers. I mean, and for grown, important, mature men like me, but mostly for teenagers. And it has imagery in it of like people kind of disintegrating because they're digital creatures, whatever. You know, all the Tron shit. De-resing. Yeah. That like, I was like, objectively, this is quite nightmarish. This is like a person crumbling into ash, sort of, right? That's also like every Amblin movie had that. Exactly. And then I was kind of like, I guess that's just sort of baked into, right, like

9:17action, kids, adventure shit. It's also, yes. But now, like, the tech is so good that it's like, this is like, I just watched Jodie Turner Smith's beautiful person. Oh, spoilers! Wow. They're always, they de-res like four billion, everyone in that movie is de-resing and un-resing and re-resing. It's just funny that you, like, come into the realization, I guess Tron Aries is ostensibly for teenagers. Right. Three times in a row. The real question with Tron, Tron X is always like, is this for anybody? This is a movie for teenagers.

9:47And every time teenagers bat it the fuck down, and then like 20 years later, they're like, okay, I think we've identified who it's actually for. Teenagers.

Podcast Introduction

9:56What's our podcast? Our podcast is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. And David. And who's our guest? Well, first, what's the podcast about? That's the way this podcast goes. Yeah. It's a podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear and sometimes they bounce. Baby. Yes. Here's a man who had an arc one, act one success, and then this is his turning point into act

10:27two. Well, this is his Hollywood. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, this is his leap to Hollywood. Nothing bounced yet, but it was just. No, not at all. Right. The credit was mounting in Australia. Yes. And he makes the leap now and does it with flying colors. Yes. We're talking about Peter Weir. We are. We are. It's a miniseries called Podnik at Hanging Cast. That's right. Because David thinks that Podnik is the funniest thing anyone's ever said. I think Podnik is really funny. Podnik is funny. I want to give credit to JJ who pitched Podnik at Hanging Cast.

10:57And is fired. Now, I wanted to do Podster and Castmander, the pod side of the cast. Because I was like, this is a rare opportunity to get two pods and two casts into one title. It is long. It didn't move me. It's long. And I was like, and I feel like being a podcaster, I am more of a visual than an audio learner. So I was like really hanging on there at the end for you. Visually, it was going to be tough. Yeah. Our guest today returned to the show. Yeah. For only the second time. And look, this is on me.

11:28I should never look at the Reddit. But I happened to check last night. Why did you look at the Reddit? I don't want to know. I mean, I guess you've been. The wind was blowing in the wrong direction. I would assume. Uh-huh. And the Reddit thread was, how has Amanda Dobbins only been on once and Sean Fennessy has been on three times? All caps, you slash Travis Bickle.

11:48Well. And I didn't blame him, but I just wanted to be here. In your defense, you guys, you do like to do it in person, which I like as well. Right. Sean has been here more. I was on parental leave for a while. Exactly. You had child. Yeah. I'm back in the mix. I think I was pregnant for Thomas Crown Affair and not telling anyone. So that's part of it. Wait, so you were lying to me? I think it was a sin of omission. Thank you so much. Yeah. So, you know, and listen, our society is structured, you know, unequally when it comes to women having it all and having access to being in person for podcast studios.

12:28Women only get 33.3% of the podcast appearances that men get. It's true. But I'm back. You're back. I'm done. Amanda Dobbins for the big picture. Not going to happen again. You're done. I am out. O-U-T. No, this is what I want to talk about. Of having children, not of Blanchett. Okay. No, no, no, no. This is the beginning. This, like, you know. Amanda and I are just connecting on this moment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Second time's good time. I'm just declaring it in many places as possible. No, no, no. Much like Peter Weir. Yeah. That was my Australian new wave face.

12:58Right, right. And it's over. Here I am. Hollywood baby. Right now, Hollywood. Harrison Ford is John Book. Yes. Is me. Harrison Ford is John Book. Now, here's the other part of it. Yeah. So, this, now your second appearance. Yeah. I feel like these are two of the three movies I hear you cite the most as feeling, like, the most impactful on your development as, like, a movie fan and a movie watcher. Absolutely. It has now created a standard, which isn't to say we can't have you on for something else, but it feels like in both of these cases. Oh, that's true. Right. Thomas Crown of Witness.

13:29Formative. Right. We lock on the director and I say to David, Dobbins, and we just text you and you immediately text back all caps, absolutely. It was just an obvious slam dunk. So, these are also films that, like, were successful at the time, but are not canonized. They're a little forgotten. In the general letterboxd film nerd. Yes. I guess that's a good way to put it. But they were important to my cinematic development.

14:00And I've got a whole lot more of those. Have you guys done Ron Howard yet? No, we have not. Apollo 13. Like, just book it right now. The other one I was, John, book it. The other one I was going to say I feel like in that trilogy is Working Girl. I feel like Working Girl, Witness, and Thomas Crown of Prayer are the three I always hear And I have one more for you. Okay. Even though I'm pretty sure, well, first of all, like, have you done Rob Reiner? No. Okay, well. Because here's the whole issue with Rob Reiner. I know, it falls off a cliff.

14:31It falls off a cliff. It falls off a cliff, but that's fine. We could do pre-Cliff Reiner. Okay, first of all, first of all, I hosted what I believe was my 10th, maybe 11th birthday party at the movie theater to see North. Wow. But that's not my pick. A movie that is a stealth witness sequel? Well, sure, but it's also, but it's off the cliff. Yes. North is the beginning. It's the cliff. Right. Sure. I mean, like, yeah. But American President. Oh, yes, yes, yes. You know, it's like, is another one. American President is after North, I believe, in his filmography.

15:02And so that's when he pulls the parachute and it deploys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, American President. And he's like, I still got it. The parachute starts to catch on fire. The parachute works. He just happens to land inside of a volcano. Yeah, yeah. American President, I know, is a big one for you. Right. And I would love to do that. But so, you know, there is a whole. There's, there are others. Right. There's others. It just feels like we've gotten two huge ones. But, you know, in Apollo 13, American President and Thomas Crown Affair, that's, and you're, we're similar ages. Like, that's, you're, you know, becoming like a teenager.

15:34Like, these are movies from the mid-90s that we watched. Same for me. Witness is from the 80s. Yeah. And Witness, maybe for you, it was for me, was a home video. Oh, absolutely. I think you're kind of ready for this movie. Because this is like a, you know, you know, there's, in a perfect world, this would be rated, I guess, like, well, in the sort of the British rating, like, this is kind of a rated 15 movie, right? Where it's like, it's got a little violence. Yeah. It has one pair of tits. It has a hint of nudity. It's got a single pair of tits. But like, by and large, it's not too intense. And it's, it's, it's adult, but it's sort of like, you know, you can engage with it as

16:08a teenager. It also falls into the category of, if you're interested in watching this, you're old enough to watch this, right? Right. Like, you know, like, if you're, hey, this movie has zero lasers. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, well, I don't know. You're going to have to really lock in to get to the boobs. And the boobs are going to make you a little emotionally confused. Right. Yeah. And, right, it's a movie about the Amish. No exciting violence. Oh, is it about how the Amish are super weird? No, it's kind of engaging with them as a community in a mature way. It is the mildest kind of culture shock comedy.

16:38In how, like. The gentlest comedy, though. Definitely, it is underplayed. Yeah. I mean, there is one stabbing at the beginning. There is. Yeah. Or, like, throat slashing, I guess. It's a throat slashing. It's pretty tame. There's a shootout at the end. Like, you know, there's. Someone drowns in corn. Dramatic corn. If you showed this to a 10-year-old, they would go over their head. If you're interested in construction, as, you know, I live with two young men who are. Sure. So there's that aspect of it. Maybe I should just show them the barn scene. Barn raising. On YouTube. They might like it. That's a great one. I mean, the barn raising is one of those things where you're like, this is real?

17:10Like, you know, when you're a young person, right? Yes. Even still. I mean, and I. Well, so also, I grew up, speaking of the 80s, in, like, the first wave American girl doll situations. Of course. And so, I had a Kirsten. Okay. And she's from, like, Minnesota? Yeah, she's, she's Midwestern, and it's like, but she's, like, a Scandinavian immigrant. Swedish girl from 1845. Yeah. And, and, like, and they came with a set of books, you know, and there was one that was, like, how did this person, how is this person, the introductory one.

17:43There's, like, a birthday one, a Christmas one. I'm sure, like, a school one, probably. Yeah. Like, and the, anyway, the, like, a party one. I don't know. There was one about a barn raising. Oh, interesting. And they, like, had a barn raising and then, like, a party in the barn. And this, so, Witness was, like, really important to me in terms of visually realizing this event that I had only read about in the context. So, the doll predates. Of the, the original six box set.

18:14Yes. Kirsten American Girl doll series. Can we talk about how messy the American Girl doll canon has gotten? I can't keep up. Because it used to be tight. It's not, the normies can't find an entry point. Listen. You gotta do homework just to pick up one doll. And there's, like, a 2000s one, what, she likes Chumba Wumba? Like, what is this? Well, now, but also, apparently, they just introduced that Samantha, another of the originals. The classic one. And listen, I, you know, the original three, there was, it, it was a pretty singular demographic. Sure. You know, which was, you know.

18:45Little white girl? White lady, white ladies with means. Mm-hmm. So, it's, it's good that they expanded the bounds. Right. Um, but, apparently, Samantha, one of the originals, now has a great-granddaughter, who you can buy, yeah, they're, like, trying to do. Oh, let's not do this. I don't, I don't know what she's up to. But the Samantha doll isn't, like, 80 now, right? You're, like, dealing with Samantha. Samantha. No, she's dead. She's frozen in time, right? But that's what I'm saying. The idea of, like, dealing with two child dolls in different temporalities, it's as if it's fucking frequency. You know what, I'm just, I, this is how diseased my brain is, but just right now, I was thinking

19:19about, like, the Poshmark market for, like, American girls doll stuff must be, like, Valhalla. Like, it must be the most incredible thing, because I had that catalog, I was just thinking about Samantha's tea set, and the little, like, iced cupcakes or glazes, or, like, maybe it's ice cream, because her thing is she makes ice cream, you know? They make dolls for the dolls. I'm well aware. It's a, it's a. Is your daughter now getting into it?

19:50Not yet, but, I mean, those are on cold storage. Like, those are awaiting her. Oh, my God. Because, you know, my wife, I think, had a couple, and then her sister had a couple. Yeah. This is a family of girls. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're all just, you know, locked away. My daughter's still, I think, too young to fully engage with them. Totally. And she's obviously also just all the way in on Spider-Man, and mostly cares about what Green Goblin is up to, not what Kit Kitteridge was up to. I think that that is healthier, you know? I guess so, but they're coming. Yeah, they're coming. And then maybe one day I'll be on Poshmark.

20:20But the tea set was, like, little wicker chairs, and it had all the accoutrements. It was so beautiful. And I'm just like, I, I, their resale market must be amazing. Like, I think, I feel right now the way that Sean feels when talking about physical media. I'm just like, I can't imagine the possibilities. Well, my question for you is, do you have yours? Are they in a box? I don't know. And, like, now that you had two sons, not to be binary, is it possible, right, that these will not be in use? I would absolutely bring it home if they wanted to.

20:51My mom, bless her, did her downsizing on her own a couple years ago. And she didn't, first of all, she gave away all my babysitter's clubs, like, 15 years ago. And I had, like, a full set. I mean, I wasn't, like, you know, I wasn't up to date, but it was originals, like, one through one, 25, like, first edition. Like, I was on that shit. That's tough. I wonder what happened to my goosebumps. And then, she didn't check in about the American Girl dolls. So, I don't know about that. We do, the boys do have my Cabbage Patch Clifton.

21:22Sure. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, that seemed, because I think my mom thought that was a little more gender neutral. So, then you're getting into generationalism, you know? Right, then you're dealing with the grandparents' opinions on what dolls should be played with by what children. Let's clarify, when your mom downsizes, did you move into Leisure Land? Yeah. Is that a downsizing reference? Downsizing reference? Yeah. David, because we're coming up on Halloween, I just have one question. Are you going to allow your daughter to throw pumpkins? Throw? Oh, because she's Green Goblin? Oh, because she's into Goblin. Oh, yeah. Well, but she's, like... And I don't say we should light them on fire.

21:53No, but she might be confused. She might be confused if she sees a little pumpkin. Yeah. Well, she's... There's a lot of little pumpkins around. She loves little pumpkins and every... Yeah, you know all the stuff. Gobby. Yeah, but she knows if Green Goblin, again, is like a sort of gentle mischief maker. Oh, okay, great. Not a promocidal maniac that he is when he's going to kill his girlfriend. Like, I don't think she's going to like meeting Willem Dafoe. Like, whenever that day comes for her when she's, like, nine years old. You always think your kid's not going to like meeting Willem Dafoe, and yet when you get there, it's just in time. Like, this to me seems like the only downside of the Spidey and his amazing friends that, like, later when I'm like, so here's Green Goblin.

22:29She's like, that's not my Green Goblin. He is not ruining Mother's Day. Like, he is. Do you know about this show, Amanda? I do. Are your sons infected with this? No, they don't. So what happened... So my children go to a Montessori school, so no characters allowed at school. No characters. Wow. Your kid can't show up with, like, a Snoopy snuff here. No. No branding. Yeah, yeah. So that has sort of, like, delayed things a little. No, but he did come home the other day, or a couple weeks ago, and he was like, Dad, I want to watch Batman. Sure. And my husband instinctively was like, I don't know what that is.

23:03And he's like, I've never heard of this. And then my three-and-a-year-old son was like, Dad, it's a beautiful film. I want to see it. And my dad and Zach was like, well, we don't have that here, you know? I guess, like, you know, I don't know. Maybe I'll look into it, but we can't watch it right now. And for now, that was acceptable to him. Yeah, but he does also think Tom Cruise is coming to his birthday party, so I don't really know. Like, from, like, he thinks Maverick will show up. No, no, no, because now he's really into, like, parachutes and stuff, so now I, like, show him Tom, I show him the making of featurettes.

23:39I love featurettes, right, yeah. You know, but here's the thing. Because he's so young, and he's, the featurettes are much better because they show Tom Cruise practicing. Yeah. And then they show, like, all the safety measures. Right, right. And it is, every time, right before they go to the final stunt, he whispers to me, I'm going to like this, right? And I'm like, you will like it, because he can do it. And, you know, I keep saying, like, look how safe he is, look how they're practicing. Right. But so, no, he now understands Tom Cruise as Tom Cruise. Yeah.

24:10And, and he, so, he does think he's coming to his birthday party. I don't, I don't know what to do about that. Sure. But, uh, we haven't gotten to Spidey and Friends yet. Yeah, so they'll, you know, they'll be there for you whenever, whenever you need, because they're heroes. I've turned this out to Sims. I don't think we've said this on mic, but I'm really curious if there's going to be a thing 15 years from now where the entire generation grew up on the show. Yeah. Because basically everyone I know with a kid under eight is like, my life is infected with Spidey and his amazing friends. If the movies are going to have to adjust to that canon.

24:43Right. In the way that David is joking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, where they're like, well, my version of Spider-Man is constantly vexed by Green Goblin stealing his lunch. Okay. And I need to see that in the movies. I've been waiting my entire life to see it in live action. I mean, they're tiptoeing that way. It's all going to happen. I mean, I guess it's true. What happened, like, people die in the last one. That's sad. Yeah. Rip. Yeah. Marissa Tomei blown into a wall.

25:13I was really sad about that. She looked so good, too. She looked so good. She was honestly killed for the crime of hotness. Yeah. That Aunt May was just too hot. What culture came from? I, look, I will say this. Yeah. Just connect threads here, right? Yeah. Instagram threads. Yeah. Ben Hussley and I, producer Ben. What's up? We're on Daily Zeitgeist podcast. Yeah. Is that an L.A. or a New York podcast? Uh, podcast. L.A. podcast. Okay. Okay. Sure. And Jack asked us, he was sort of speed rounding, like, movie conversation talking points that he was like, I listen to your show and I've wanted to have these discussions with you

25:45guys. And he was like, the whole thing of, like, movies becoming sexless, right? Sure. And, like, what is perpetuating this? And is this a younger generation that is skittish about it? Is it about the studios? Is it about movies translating overseas or whatever? We litigated this whole thing, right? Yeah. But the thing I really locked into was, I think what is less discussed isn't, like, in the 80s, Michael Douglas used to fuck everyone against a wall and now there's no sex in anything. What I feel like is under-discussed is the witness thing of, like, every movie used to just

26:16have this level of sexual tension in it. Oh, I thought you were going to say every movie used to have just, like, one pair of tits. And it, like, wasn't a big deal. Right. I think that was part of it. I do think that is a little, I mean, look, films still have nudity. Yeah. But, like, not in the, but it's, if they do, it's like a, ooh, like, come see so-and-so's, you know, and come see someone's dick now because the men will also be full frontal. There are many more dicks. Yeah. I can't deny that.

26:46It's more common to see a dick. But this is sort of just like a European, like, oh, okay. Well, like, there they are. I think there was some of that. It's the human body. Look, there were also many movies in the 80s and 90s that were built entirely on, look at how many tits you're going to see, and they were not presented in a European way. But I do, I kept, while watching this movie again last night, thinking about the Marvel, like, everyone is beautiful and nobody fucks thing, where you're like, this is the exact inverse of that, in that, like, here you have, I feel like you've said it many times, I'm inclined to agree, Harrison Ford, the best he has ever looked on screen.

27:20Well, it's this and Working Girl, right? It's this and Working Girl. Which are back to back. They are, so this is, like, his ideal phase of life. Yes. I would agree. I mean, how old would he have been? He would have been, like, since 40. He's like 40. He's like 43. He's got to live at. No, I know. And hey, that's fine. All power, too. But this, I feel like, even more so than Working Girl, because Working Girl has the, like, movie sheen on it. Uh-huh. Like, for how much he is genetically blessed and is taking great care of himself, Harrison

27:52Ford does look like a real person in this movie. Oh, 100%. It is that amazing thing where you can see someone who has, like, movie star fucking, like, you know, glow, and yet the movie doesn't make them, like, perfectly groomed and hairless. Yeah, but let me, let me. And poreless. What? I gotta stop you here. It's not just what you're talking about. This is the first time he plays a guy in today. In the, in the world. In a movie. Basically, I mean, excluding, you know, probably. As a leading man. As a leading man.

28:22Little movies that he did early on. But, like, since he has become a star. Sure. And done, like, you know, the run of, like, Star Wars, Apocalypse Now, briefly, obviously, Frisco Kid, Emperor Strikes Back, Raiders, Blade Runner, Return of the Jedi, Temple of Day. Yeah, but that's, that's pretty, you know. I'm just saying. That's a leading man. No, I'm saying, like, this is, like, Harrison Ford is in our world. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Working Girl is 88. I forgot. Yes. I always think it's 86. So, that's a little later. This is 84. Is 85. Wow. 85. Wow. But, like, this is the first time that we have seen him wearing regular clothes.

28:53Yeah. Yeah. Drinking a cup. Well, sort of. Hot Joe. Hot Joe. Well, he does, of course, then go plain. Right. He goes plain mode. Plain mode. Sure. Plain on main. The cut of those pants is very contemporary, though, in a funny way. It is. It is true. It is very late millennial. Yeah. Except he is wearing socks. But, yes, the high cut and then, obviously, the crop, you know, showing some ankle. I was just watching all the special features on, not to tempt you, Amanda, but this lovely premium witness 4K. I know. Tracy Letts gave out two copies and neither was to me.

29:26I texted him after the. I mean, you weren't even present for that virginity convention. You know, I'm saying this is a good object. This doesn't look like a GameStop. This is a good object. I mean, that's true. You hear the knock of this? Not plastic. So, one thing, as you're sitting there, and I'm in the same room with you, as you knock on it. A lot of things on my desk. There is, like, we've gotten the plastic. Yeah. That's not plastic. Sure. And you guys talk a lot about steelbooks. You got the metal ones. We love the steelbooks. Yeah. But the symmetry of it, it still just is a box, you know?

29:58And it's just like, they're like rows of boxes. Sure. You know? And it all just kind of looks like boxes. So, that's another thing that you guys should work on. You want a different form factor. That's my feedback. I know this is Sean's case, but when you have something like this, Sean's argument, I should say, rather, for this type of case. Yeah. It's like a hardback slip, right? Hardback slip. Is that then it starts to look more like a book. But for you, you're not buying that. Sean book. But they're still all, like, it's the aesthetics of when they're lined up.

30:30Interesting. Okay. And they're all, like, flat, and the edges are rounded, and they just, you know. You dislike that. But, yeah, I don't, I think that you need more texture. You need more variety for it to look, it starts to look a little, it looks flat. I agree. And where's the steel? True. I also, I mean, I keep hearing about the steel books. Don't know if I've ever seen one IRL. I see no shine. I see no texture. I see no metal. Yeah. But it's like, think about a bookcase where, you know, okay, oh, we're holding a steel

31:07book. Okay, now I'm holding a steel book. Oh, it's a master and commander's steel book. Okay. So. But what if it was wearing a hat? Ben, I would agree with you that, first of all, I don't know how to open this. It's a little tug there. Yeah, it might be a little tight in that center. This isn't like the steel that built the American railroads, you know, um, it's a steel wrapping. When you open it up, it's plastic guts, but it's a steel wrapping. You can't drive a train down them discs. It's true. Well, I just, I think if it was American railroad steel, everyone's shelves would be collapsing

31:38all the time. But like, think about a bookcase that looks good to you. Yes. You know? Uh-huh. It is almost never all of the same size, binding, color, all like all in a row. Like the sets look weird. And you can tell when someone does not have a book collection and they have a large bookcase and they buy one of like the old gaudy sets and you're just like, oh, that looks kind of like fake and unused. I love that we're having this conversation. There's like a symmetry to what's going on with the display of physical medias that I find

32:12aesthetically offensive. Now, let me say this, Amanda. Yes. Your podcast co-host, Sean Fennessey. Yes. The king of the symmetrical stack, right? Yeah. The photos are everything has to be lined up perfectly, right? Yeah. Not on the shelves, but when he's posting like doing my Spike Lee research. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect stack. Yeah. A lot of physical media collectors like ourselves want the perfect symmetry on the shelf. They want everything the same. And in fact, it will drive them crazy if a movie is released in a different form factor that's not going to line up.

32:43I do know that. I don't feel this way. I'm with you where I like, I wouldn't say a messy shelf, but I like the variety. I like the idea of like peaks and valleys and different shapes and like Criterion will do this sometimes where they'll be like, we tried something different with the packaging and people, people go ballistic. They put out Trainspotting in a, like a package that they were like, this is a reference to 90s, like British promotional CDs and it was thinner and taller. Yeah. And people lost their fucking minds.

33:16And I'm like, good, give it to me. Make it all look different. But I do think that some of it, it just, people have different tastes and people have different aesthetics and Sean is, bless him, a neat freak and a quote unquote minimalist and his house is clean lines. I was about to say, right. And he doesn't like things out. And I live in a sea of books. And if I could have 18 different prints and patterns in one room, you know, like.

33:47This is how I live my life, embrace the chaos. I would like the Marie Antoinette set designer to come to my house next, you know? So, so, so it's, it is, it is purely at some point, like, like I prefer this color to this color. Like I prefer this look to this look, but it's the, I, I find the symmetry, uh, unnerving and it does not soothe me. I don't disagree with you. It freaks me out. Look at this big chunky picnic at Hanging Rock. Look at this. No plastic here. You know what I'm saying? I'm going to open the dots. I got the fucking, I got the novel in here.

34:17The book is in the set. I'm sorry. I, I am here as a chaos monster. I'm not helping you. You know, I'm not. Be a chaos monster, please. Do you, I didn't even bring my laptop. You know the kind of guests we have sometimes? I know, but I just. You're no monster. You know, Sean usually keeps me, like I, I try sometimes to stay on the tracks, but here I'm just like, let's talk about. No, we're pulling the rip for it. Let's talk about steelbooks. That's what we're here for today. That's why we like to be in person. Yeah.

34:51David. What's the matter? I'm going to share for you a horrifying tale, a tale of woe and suffering. Whoa, this is scary. It's a tale of human error, of failing on my part. Tell me. We went to the Wisconsin Film Festival. Sure. Visited our dear researcher, JJ Bursch. I'm scared already. Participated in a screening. We, we dined out. We had fried cheese curds. We drank Wisconsin beer. What was the mistake? Tell me. I forgot to pack my. Oh, Jesus. AG1. You didn't bring your AG1 to Wisconsin? This is a fuck. Oh.

35:21This is an ad read. This is a personal endorsement from experience. They got the travel packs because the thing I love about AG1, they give you different form factors. They give you different ways to handle it. I forgot to pack any AG1. I was there for 72 hours. It took a week to undo. A week to undo. I'm not going to get graphic about this. But it just goes to show, as I always say in these ad reads, AG1 has really become load bearing within my life. Yes. AG1, of course, it's a daily health drink.

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37:59David. Yes. They say that the eyes are the window to the soul. They do say that. What does that make our glasses? The windows. The window frames? I don't know. The curtains? Yeah. The curtains. The point is, if you are a glasses wearer like I am or like our own producer Ben is. True. It's a big decision. Sure. Because this is how you introduce yourself to the world. This is how you engage with other people. You make eye contact through the frames. Sometimes it's just time for a refresh. Totally agree. All right. Well, so what about Zenni Optical?

38:31Oh. Want to get some Zenni glasses? Zenni glasses. Zenni glasses. The eyewear. They got fun shapes, sizes, and colors. They got a lot of colors. Right. Statement pieces. Bold statement pieces, they call them. And they're inexpensive, I would say. They're an online eyewear shop with prescription glasses, sunglasses, blue light lenses, all starting at under $30. That's crazy. That is very low. I feel like glasses often cost more than $30.

39:01Way more. But you go to Zenni.com, you pick a frame, you upload your prescription, they ship it to your door. No appointment, no store, no upsell at the counter. Easy. At that price, something kind of shifts. You're not like, do I need new glasses? You're like, why don't I try something fun? Right? Sometimes you got an old pair, they got a scratch on them. It's annoying, but you're like, am I going to go through the hassle? Or the screws start to get loose and you find yourself taking out that microscopic little screwdriver over and over again to tighten them up. At this price, why not just get another pair?

39:32Ben, I ordered a pair of the Magoo. I think this is funny. Okay. We all know from Mr. Magoo, the cartoon character who can't see. And Zenni is saying, let's solve that problem. Let's give you glasses called Magoo. They're blue and green, two of my favorite colors. A nice boxy frame. You're not agonizing over one pair that has to do everything for the next two years. Get the ones for work. Yeah. Get the fun ones. Get some options. Get the pair that only matches one outfit at under $30.

40:03You don't have to justify it. Exactly. They've got 150,000 five-star reviews. Yeah. And if you've never run glasses online before, they have a virtual try-on so you can see how it's going to look on your face before you commit. If your glasses are overdue for a refresh, now's the time. Go to zenni.com slash podcast and use code podcast15 for 15% off your first order. This dials sell out, so don't sit on it. That's Z-E-N-N-I dot com slash podcast promo code podcast15. I want to tell you guys something you might not know.

40:41Peter Weir's from Australia. Really? Did you guys know that? What? Peter Weir grew up in Australia, is Australian, made many Australian films. The hat trick. But he did like American movies and was kind of raised on them. How can you not, right? Hollywood. It's all over the world. Hollywood, sure. And so, pretty quickly in his career, he says around when he made The Last Wave, which is his third film, he starts kind of getting an eye on it.

41:11He's like, you know, this town isn't big enough, like, you know, he's starting to get a little sick of the sort of scale of Australian projects, right, the extent to which. I also think, especially in the 80s, it's not the start of, but there's a real surge in, if someone makes an interesting film in a foreign country that crosses over a little bit, time to bring them over to Hollywood and slot them into the machine, you know? I think there's a little bit less of everyone works in their own country and more of eventually we're getting you over here.

41:39The Thorn Birds, the 19, what is it, like 1980 film, The Thorn Birds. You guys know this film? Yeah. Based on a, I don't know, we don't, no, it was a miniseries. It was a miniseries, but based on the Australian novel by Colleen McCullough. Because that was Richard Chamberlain as well? Well, it's being set up initially as a film that was going to be directed by Herbert Ross and star Robert Redford, rest in peace.

42:06And Herbert Ross was, I think, you know, getting old and so he was being pushed aside and they were like, maybe you can do this and you're Australian, you know, right? You'll get, it's set in the Outback, like, you'll get it. And he circled it, but wasn't that interested, so he backed off and eventually that got shunted to miniseries as, you know, 1983 is when it came out. With his recent leading man. Right. From The Last Wave. Yeah. And instead, Weird does two more Australian films. He does Gallipoli and he does Year of Living Dangerously, which is an Australian production, but MGM has a little bit of money in it.

42:42And so it's sort of like half a step into Hollywood.