After Hours with Alison Sivitz

Celebrating the Podcast Anniversary

0:00What do you want from me? What have I done? I'm just a podcaster for Christ's sakes. What's the line? Word processor is what his job is in the movie.

0:32Thank you for backing off the mic. Thank you. I appreciate it. You know what? Eleven years, you learn a couple of things. Eleven and a half. Yeah. Wow. It's pretty close to our half birthday when this episode's coming out. When's the real birthday? March 23rd. March 23rd. That's our anniversary. Is that a... That's an Aries. That sounds right. No? That's a Pisces? Aries. No, but it's Aries. You were right the first time. It's an Aries. It's Aries, which is why our podcast is

1:03crazy. Yeah. We were talking astrology before the show, but we've never thought to do the signs for the show itself. The show itself. We should. The show itself. A water podcast. No, it's there. Or I mean fire. A fire podcast. Um, yes. And many do say that. I've heard it on the street. It's a fire podcast. And I'll put her hand gently on my shoulder and said blank check is a fire podcast. She whispered it. Yeah. I'm sorry if I seem a little out of it. I, I didn't, uh, get any sleep, uh, last night. I

1:34had a, I had a crazy night. You are covered in paper mache, aren't you? I had a crazy night. I had to watch after hours. Right. Which is like 87 whole minutes long. Yeah. I guess that was basically the night. I'm reading your interview now, which I read it before, but I'm just reading again. It is so funny. Within doubt. Within doubt. Yeah. Where you're like, oh, I feel like we can just chat. And she just says whatever you'd like, honey. She's so angel. Perfect. Lovely. Right in a good mood. If, if Ann Dowd said that to me, real Ann Dowd. What was the Ann Dowd? Hair Ann Dowd. We got an Ann Dowd

2:05burger report. Yep. Hair Ann Dowd is a good way to differentiate like full fat Coke. Hair Ann Dowd. It's nicer than her suit Ann Dowd, even if that's correct. In comparison, it makes it sound like she's a Yeti. Right. You want just hair Ann Dowd. Let's maybe give some context

Introducing the Martin Scorsese Miniseries

2:24of what we're talking about. Absolutely. Yes. Griffin, what's this podcast? This podcast, David's so happy that it's happening. Right away. Much like After Hours, which gets to Roseanne Arquette's apartment within like 10 minutes. When I set up that transition, Sims gave me the biggest smile. I actually have maybe never seen David this happy in my life. So happy. Look at two minutes and we're getting into the whole spiel. I'm waiting for 2.30. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. 2.30. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a fire podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers

2:58and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes they bounce baby. And sometimes like Martin Scorsese, he has a series of films where he needs to reset the table. Sure. And I, you and I were saying this the other day, I think off mic, that what makes Martin Scorsese unique is every movie of his that on paper is a paycheck movie. Sure. Or he's basically like, he's doing this while he waits to make the one he really cares about. This is a favor film. This is more of a hired gig, whatever. Every one of those would be most filmmakers' best film ever. Absolutely.

3:33None of them are dispassionate. All of them are interested. David. I didn't know the ice would be that loud. I was drinking coffee, not eating ice. I was drinking coffee. Ben, in his defense, it's never loud and this has never been a problem before. So there's no way he could have known. You have a bit of a problem with ice near the microphone. This is correct. And I have a bit of a problem with ice in the streets of America. I mean, yes, I agree with you. Okay. And I say, everyone's a little jacked up from David's cup.

4:02That wasn't a cue for you to do it. It actually wasn't. Everyone's a little jacked up. Yeah. I feel like everyone's a little. This movie I watched this morning has put me in such a weird mood. Really? You found that this movie got you a little wound? Yeah. Like first thing watching this, I'm just feeling very buzzy. Had you seen it before, producer Ben? I had. You had. I mean, let's call it. This is a miniseries on the films of Martin Scorsese. It's called Podcast Fellas, of course. It couldn't have been called anything else. And today we're covering the griffiest movie

4:32we've ever covered on the show. And I mean that in a couple ways. One, it stars Griffin Dunn. We have not, I think, covered a film starring a Griffin to date. Who are the other Griffins? We've covered Griffin Dunn in supporting roles. Uh, yeah. Have we? What, what, what, what? Johnny Dangerously, of course. One of the funniest movies ever made. Yep. Funny. Go. Keep the knee in there. I don't know if he is. There aren't that many. We haven't, we haven't covered what? Yeah, we haven't. I don't think we've covered any of his other movies.

5:03We haven't covered a Griffin Gluck film. Oh, you know what? We watched Ocean's 8 on Patreon. He's in that for a second. He is? Yeah. He's a parole board officer. Griffin O'Neill. We haven't covered a Griffin O'Neill. I'm just Googling actors named Griffin. We haven't covered Peter Griffin. We haven't. We haven't covered Stewie. Now you love Peter Griffin. Meg. Right? You're the right generation for this. I think. Wait, are you just assuming? I'm going to lob a lot of stuff at our guest today that's about how she's young and I find young people's tastes different and mysterious. Oh boy. Thank you for calling me young. You are very young. Um, I think

5:35the photo of Peter and Lois holding hands in front of the sunset is the most romantic image. Yeah, relationship goals. In existence. Yeah. Yeah. He's a fucking idiot. He's hyper confident. Mean. When I was probably 11, I think I was in sixth grade. My phone ringtone was Stewie Griffin saying mom over and over and over again. There you go. It is funny that it feels like the iteration from Simpsons to Family Guy is, you know how like the best Simpsons episodes have that thing where Homer finally gets it and he does one really thoughtful move that

6:09shows that he has some degree of emotional intelligence and it kind of redeems his character. What if that never happens? Oh yeah. What if it's just dumb shit all the time and he never provides a single reason for Lois to stay with him other than the sunset? Griffin O'Neill. I said Griffin O'Neill. I did say that. Griffin Gluck you said. I said Griffin Gluck. There's not a lot. You would be surprised to hear I keep tabs on who else is out there. There's some guy called Griffin

6:40Cleveland who kind of looks like you as a child. Oh boy. It's a little alarming. Have we covered the mythical creature in any film? I think there was a Griffin in Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah. Yeah. If not both Dungeons and Dragons that we covered. Good call. I don't think we've covered a movie that has a Griffin character. I don't think we've covered a movie uh no I think we're I think we're done. Oh okay okay there was one recently. There was one recently? What was it? Because I just remembered one. Fuck you say yours. I think

7:14Gary Shanling plays a character named Griffin in Mixed Nuts possibly. I think I mean now we're definitely done. That that that's the end. This movie also let's just say is very much reflective of my temperament. This is this is a movie that is very much my vibe. Yeah. It's a downtown movie. It's and you are downtown Griffin Newman. And this is a downtown Gary Shanling's character in Mixed Nuts is called Stanley. So you made that up. There's some other Gary Shanling movie. You know what it is? It's Town and Country. We haven't covered it yet. We will cover it when we do. When we do Warren Beatty. Absolutely. Yes. What's

7:47on your hat? Fucking um uh Edge of Tomorrow. Oh Griff. Yeah yeah. Yes. Kit Gurry. Sure. Yes. What's on your hat? So my my hat is the graffiti from Jaws. I wore it because I thought it looked close to the classic bathroom graffiti and after hours of the man having his dick bitten by a shark. Really beautiful. It's really good. And let's even in honor of this episode call it graffiti. Wow. Wow. Who's our guest? We're done. It's like so stunned by the profundity

Welcoming Guest Ali Sivy

8:22of what I'm saying. We're just really done. Our guest today. Yes. And this is the first time we've had to do this. There was almost an act of negotiation not between us but but with herself. Within herself. Yeah. Of how she wanted to be introduced. Story of my life. Yes. You you may know them as as merely a handle and an avatar. Yeah. At Bald and Doubt but that's not who's on the podcast today. Today who's on the podcast is Ali Sivy. That is how she is being introduced. Yeah. We feel good. Did that feel comfortable? That felt good. That

8:56felt good. Did you make the Bald and Doubt picture? No. Like did you create that in Photoshop or whatever? No. Someone made that for you? No. I met a friend on Twitter named Lachlan and I tweeted one day out of the blue. I was just in a weird mood. I was having sort of an after hours type of week. I was like can anyone Photoshop and out bald for me? And there it was in my replies. And the rest is history. There she is. I did absolutely no labor. Now did you have to acquire the rights at some point to just do a full buyout? Now that it's yours. For the first

9:30six months I would have intense nightmares that Ann Dowd was gonna sue me. Right. She's very litigious. She recently. Famously. No I used to go around asking people like do you think Ann Dowd is litigious? Like what's the story? Because she plays a villain so well. But then when I met her she's like honey I would never sue you. And I was like I needed to like I just like my body just like unclenched in a way that I didn't realize I had to unclench. Um was she like why am I bald? Like did she was she perturbed at all? Okay. Okay. No not perturbed. She

10:01was just like and I'm bald because right. I was like Ann I don't know. I could not tell you. I need to just close the loop on this quickly. The other two of course. We said we were done. But okay. I and I just told you I need to close the loop. Right. Right. Exactly. D-U-N-N-E. Uh David Spade's Invisible Man from the Hotel Transylvania Trilogy. Of course is named Griffin which is a reference to the character from the books in the original Universal movies. Fantastic. And Michael Stolberg's Alien for

10:32Men in Black 3. End of list. Why is he called Griffin? I don't know. I do love Stolberg. I just saw the clip of him talking to Timothy at the end of Call Me By Your Name and it made me cry. That's quite a good performance. That clip will make you cry. Yeah. It's funny. It would be funnier if you were like I just saw the clip of him in a black train. Just like I'm not feeling it. It made me cry. Yeah. At the end when he can't figure out what to order at the diner. Is that what he does? Yeah. Remember he's an alien where his brain is a planet and he can predict every timeline. He's got to choose your own adventure brain. And so he's trying to talk them into making the right branching timeline

11:05choices. Sounds like a tearjerker. I've seen that movie. It's kind of the after hours of the Men in Black trilogy. It mostly takes place in one night. I've seen that movie more than once. Yes. Including on this podcast. But it's not really lodged in the old brainy box. But you know what it is? After Hours. After Hours. This is a movie I've seen so many times. Same. I put it on just because my job to watch the movie before I do this show. Yeah. And it was one of those things where I was like I don't even need to do this. Like as it's happening I was just like yep it's all in there already baby. You know what's surprising. This is my favorite Martin Scorsese film. Unsurprisingly. It's not the one I think

11:37is best but it's the one that obviously just sticks to my ribs. Right. I've seen it many times. Every time I watch it I'm a little surprised by it because my memory of it is different than the act of watching it in real time. I experienced this last night. Yeah. There were things that I completely forgot about. I always forget that he gets to her apartment that quickly. Very quick. Yeah. Right away. That I always think there's more conflict to get there because I know well he loses the money. It's just the cab ride. No. And it's it's things get bad once he leaves her place. I never take a yellow cab anymore. No one ever does sadly. You know

12:11we're all taking lift or whatever. But that is what it was like. It is. You never put your seatbelt on. No. And also that was a real kind of throwback moment of that little what do they even call it. The basket. I think he said. Yeah. The little basket you put the money in. The New York yellow cab thing. See our guest is so young that she doesn't even know what we're talking about. But that there was the plexiglass partition. So you can shoot him. And then there was this little kind of like basket with a hinge where you would stuff the money in and then push it and then they

12:42would pull it out the other side. And it's such a dumb fucking rookie move on his part to be like I'm storing it here for later for the payment. Right. Rather than do it at the moment. Yes. You do it. You know he's I I also the the the the receipt sound of a taxi. Yeah. Which I was used for the smoke monster in Lost. Oh. If you ever listen to it. Yes. Kind of an after hours on the island. Burned in my brain. Yeah. Things go wrong. Hello Ali. Welcome to Blank Check. Hello. Thank you

13:16for having me. You're welcome. There was some back and forth in terms of figuring out the right episode to get you on. We knew we wanted you on the show. It feels like we landed on the right place. Yeah. Especially with this being your favorite. This is my favorite. Yes. It's so good. I love Alice though too. But this is my this is my number one. Right. You were thinking maybe doing Alice. Yeah. Doesn't live here anymore. If you want to shout out Alice of course. Shout out. Shoot the mom. But you know this sort of young downtown energy of after hours. It's a New Yorkie movie

13:48about being crazy. We all can relate to this I feel in a very profound way. I have never been a diner waitress. No. I have been a little bit of a Paul Hackett. I think everyone has Paul Hackett is like the shadow self. He's exactly how you hope you were not perceived by others in the world. Right. Right. Not not as evil but just like. He's so stupid. I forgot how stupid he was. He's so lame in a lot of ways. Yeah. You know and it's fascinating because when he wants to be

14:19Griffin Dunn can be like the most charming person in the world. There are there are moments of that. Totally. But it feels like Scorsese was like you you got to tamp it down. Yeah. You know like don't win over the audience at every moment. He's like don't have sex for eight weeks. One of the great stories. Do you know this Ben? We will talk. Wow. Yeah. There's there's some great details about this but this is also this is a fascinating just to get ahead of it. This is a project Griffin Dunn develops because he doesn't feel like they're good roles out there and he's like

14:51I'm going to make the movies for myself. His producing partner is Amy Robinson who was the female lead in Mean Streets. And this movie in one of the most fascinating what if a what if alternate timeline that only Griffin from Men in Black 3 could consider was originally offered and signed on to direct the debut film of Tim Burton. Off of Frank and Weenie it was supposed to be Tim Burton's debut feature film. But we definitely talked about this on our Tim Burton miniseries. I think yes. It's a fascinating thing. And then Amy Robinson's like it's a crazy idea.

15:26Can I send this to Marty and see if he wants to do it? Why not? I'm gonna say it's always worth just shooting Marty a text. Let's try. I know his phone number. Yeah. 1-800-Scorsese. 1-800-Scorsese. It's a direct line. It works every time. He can text from it and everything. Wasn't Burton also like I don't want to get in the way of Marty. Yeah I think Burton. Give it to him. Right we'll talk about it but right Burton was like Martin Scorsese. I'll do something else. Yeah. I'll do Pee Wee. I will. So I. That's crazy. I had no idea that he directed Pee Wee until very recently. Wow. Educating the youth.

15:59A social fashion. I'm gonna stop it with it now. You are a grown person. When you watch the Pee Wee as himself documentary that's so fucking good. Paul Rubens talks about how haunted he was by like Tim Burton getting all the credit for Pee Wee. Where he was like this guy was like a rocket ship and everyone assumed he was the genius and I wish I had directed it myself. And then nowadays people are like he directed that. Burton started there. He wasn't birthed out in Beetlejuice. Right.

16:29I know Gryffindon a little bit. We'll talk about it further in this episode. But the way he told the story to me one time is that he was really contrite and he went to Tim Burton and he was like Tim this is like a really difficult conversation. But Martin Scorsese is kind of interested in doing this movie. Now I'm not like firing you. We can talk about it. And Burton was like are you kidding me? You owe me zero apology. If Martin Scorsese wants to make your movie I wouldn't dare make a movie that he's even flirting with. Yeah. Like settled. Absolutely. You owe me no apologies. All

17:03good. Congrats to you. And then he just like immediately rebounds onto Pee Wee which comes out the same year or the year after this? I think it's the year after. Is it 86 or 87? This no. After Hours is 85. This film is 85. Okay. But so is Pee Wee. Wow. Wow. Same year. Yeah this. What came out first? After Hours? This came out a month later. September. Wow. Wait what's the release date of each one? I'm doing signs. Okay September 13th for After Hours. That's Virgo. Virgo. Which does not fit After Hours. No. No. But I guess I guess studios probably don't take that into account when setting release

17:38states. I'm seeing here that Pee Wee's sign is a pancake face. Wow. With bacon mouth. Pee Wee August 9th. So a Leo. That's a Leo. That makes sense. A little. Makes more sense. Yeah. Pee Wee's a lion. Yeah. Yeah. You know he's got a he's got a bravado. A mighty mane. We all have those images from childhood that are like so formative and burned into our brains and Pee Wee rescuing animals from the burning. One of the funnest. Pat's store is just like the it's like my first memory almost. That's beautiful. You were raised well. My dad was a huge Pee Wee head. It's maybe the funniest movie ever made. I saw it again recently

18:12in theaters and it is insane how joke dense that movie is and how 50 percent of the jokes are jokes that still feel like one of one. I need to rewatch. I haven't seen it as an adult. I don't think it's the funniest movie ever made but as I'm sure we said at the time it is maybe the funniest movie ever made where the ingredients do not seem like you're like how could this be good and then you watch it and you're like oh my god it's so good. You know what I mean? Almost everything that's funny in it you can't explain in a way that sounds funny. Yes. Oh yeah. We covered it. Well if you have a

18:43thought obviously you weren't on our. No trying to explain anything kind of kills it. This is true. Yeah. Anyway let's explain the movie After Hours. When did you first see After Hours Griffin Newman? So this is a big sort of Griffey movie. My parents would joke that I was named after Griffin done. Funny. Because I was named after nothing and for no reason. As I maybe said before my parents had lists that they had created and didn't agree on anything. My mom it was all like uh Gaelic names. Gaelic? Oh French. Seamus. No no like Irish. Oh Gaelic. Yeah. I'm sorry Gaelic names. Seamus?

19:19Yes. Imagine if he was called Seamus. I can kind of see it. It was shit like that and then as my father put it. We could be like for shame. Uh yeah. You're late again. Yeah. Okay. As my father put it his list of names. Wait that kind of works. I know. Yeah. But it would have to be David and Seamus. Well David and Seamus. That's fine. Yeah. Hits. Here's here's the the other side of the equation. My father's list was all as he puts it uh R&B singer or blaxploitation character names. Such as? So the top two he always mentioned were Rufus and Tyrone.

19:53Your parents were so cracked out my friend. I don't know. They were living that fucking after hours like. You come out and they're like. New York 80s downtown. Tyrone. No no no no no. He's like my parents wanted to name him Sinbad. But they were basically like Griffin is the only name that kind of fits into both like lines of thinking. Uh huh. Uh huh. Sort of. Was named for yeah zero reason and then they'd always joke when people were like why do you name him Griffin. It was like Griffin Dunn. Of course Griffin Dunn. So I when I'd ask who's Griffin

20:26Dunn because he wasn't in a lot of kids movies. They'd be like he's this guy and he was big in the 80s and he did this movie after hours and then my parents would explain after hours to me and it felt like a mythical premise for a movie. Like I remember from a very young age hearing it and thinking that's one of the best ideas for a movie I've ever heard of a guy goes downtown loses the $20 in his wallet and then he's stuck and he can't get back home and he can't get on the subway and yada yada yada. And I was like that sounds fun. I can't wait until I'm old enough to see that. And I probably saw it when I was

20:58like 13 or 14. Sure. That's my story. Okay so pretty early. But it felt a little faded. Yeah. I saw this movie in college when I was like okay I'll watch all the margins right. Yeah. And this was the and I think so many people have this experience. I felt I was discovering something. It's fun. Well but also just I was like what's this one? My God. He directed this? Right. Like you know just that. Yes. Which is great when you're you know a youth and you're figuring out movies all by yourself and the internet's not telling you what to do. We were talking about this with Tommy but I feel like for a while King of Comedy was the I'm not like the other Scorsese fans. I think it's this.

21:33And things have now I think swung around to after hours. I think our generation and I say our generation because we're all the exact same age in this room right now. Yeah. I just turned 40. We're all. This is 40. Young 40 and thriving. Paul Rudd. You're. Who else is in that movie? Leslie Mann. Jason Segel. Albert Brooks. What's Segel doing in that one? Segel. He's being the horny guy from Knocked Up? He reprises his character and he's a personal fitness coach. Is he good? Kind of. Okay. He's very good at Knocked Up. Yes. Because you're like he made a choice. Yes. Which I think is funny. Everyone else is just like I'll just be

22:07myself which is fine. Yes. No. He's really good. I'm going to do this thing. Right. It's also funny that that's what leads to the launch pad of him being a leading man when none of his leading man roles are like that. No. Right. But it's also funny that he's the only one of the friend group in that movie including Seth Rogen. But they're like we've kept in touch with Segel. That guy who hit on your wife at the club. Right. Who kept talking about tits. Right. Yeah. Do you care about the cinema to Apatow? Yes. Okay. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yeah. What was I just saying? This is 40. We're all 40. That this has become the

22:43cool one. People like this one. Yeah. When did you see this for the first time? Yeah. Last month. Right. Right. Wow. This was like my Marty like a big Marty blind spot for me. Okay. And I knew it was it seemed like a very me movie. Yes. I don't know why I had never tapped in but immediately I was like oh this is this is my favorite one. Do you think part of things circling around to this becoming the cool pick is that it is such a snapshot of a time where you could be this disconnected? Yes. That everything that was like an anxiety

23:14dream about this movie when it was released of imagine everything went wrong is almost a little bit like satisfying to think about like you could just actually if you didn't have twenty dollars in your pocket be off the grid. There's no phone. There's no Apple pay. There's like you're fucked. And New York could still have neighborhoods that were this undeveloped. Yeah. So now like they're putting an Ikea in Soho like it's just such a different we needed this. Oh my God. It's just such a different New York. Yes. The whole

23:45time I was like God his Instagram stories would be going crazy right now. Right. He'd be posting through it. Oh God. He would be posting through it. It's so much better now. I mean then. Yes. Yes. Yes. But I was also like you can walk like I understand that defeats the whole purpose of the movie. I don't want to be that guy but like out like less than 90 minutes you can make it up to 91st from there. Like I've done it. I think it says a lot about the characterization of this movie that you buy that Paul is a guy who would go I can find a shortcut rather than just start walking uptown. And I also think part of why this movie being set specifically

24:19in Soho at this exact time period is good because it kind of feels like a place where it'd be tough to get your bearings in New York. Yeah. You're right below the grid. Right. You're below the grid. Thompson Street. What is that? Right. The blocks are weird shapes. Yeah. You're below numbers. As a Soho worker the blocks aren't that weird. You got some weird. You got some triangles in there and shit. You go over to the west side I suppose. Yeah. But also it's these big wide open streets without lights. It was so dark. Yeah. It's

24:52wet ass sidewalks. I want to make a Soho canon and I need to look you know Miss 45 for our movie is all Soho. That's one. Unfaithful. The Adrian Lyon movie has a lot of great Soho stuff. You know it's such an interesting landscape mini landscape within New York because of what you're talking about. You know the kind of weird the cobblestones big open streets uniformly like you know all the beautiful cast iron buildings like it's it looks a little it's like gorgeous but it's a little encased. It's a little different. And this is the last time that Soho is captured

25:26as just being like this is where freak artists lives in giant cavernous apartments that no one wants. That apartment is exactly what I thought New York was going to be as a kid. This is whatever my mom has a story about this when she lived in Manhattan at this time and she was downtown in Soho like getting coffee at some cool coffee place with her friend you know and they're being cool New Yorkers and then her friend saw her mom on a walking tour of Soho being like led around by you know in a group of like nice old ladies being shown and and my mom's friend was just like oh Soho is

25:59over this is it that's it like fucking like this is happening it's over it's not cool anymore yeah and Soho is over. Wow. It is funny now it's all boutiques where if I walked in there they would throw me out. This movie might have prolonged Soho's scariness for another decade where even as it was being developed from a distance outsiders weren't thinking to visit there. No now it's just people waiting in line for like a croissant that sucks. And they do suck. They're bad. We both work in Soho they're all bad. If you're ever waiting in line in Manhattan for something for anything for anything

26:35it's not going to be good. No, this is and you should never wait in a Manhattan line. There's something there's industry pizza. No, no, there's there's one thing even worse which is paying someone to wait in line for you. If you do that go to the gulag. Yeah, that's the least New Yorker shit in the world. I know people who have done that and they're excommunicated for my life. I want to walk to the Hudson and then just keep walking. Keep walking to it. Keep going. Yep. Yeah. No, there's a Supreme store. Take a long walk off a Chelsea pier. That's what I say to those. Yeah, it's a very New York episode but

27:07that makes sense because we're talking about after hours a great 80s New York movie. I'm going to open the dossier guys. We're just we're just we're just you know we're circling it. It's one of the classic things that happens on this fire show. I like that she's canonizing our iconic status. Our show is fire. It is not chopped and unk. No, no. Our show has never been less. I don't know guys. Yeah, it's pretty chopped. And we're pretty unk. We are very unk. It's not chopped. It's approaching unk. Neither you nor I are uncles. Neither am I. No, I am an

27:40uncle. You are? Ben is? Yeah. Like by marriage? My wife's older brother. Uncle by marriage. Yeah. Had a son I guess a year ago. Wow. Yeah. Shout out. Uncle Ben. Uncle Ben. Watch out for it. Watch out for the Green Goblin or any other muggers. Yeah. I also was going to say. Spider-Man's uncle. Watch out for the woke police. They're going to kick your face off the rice bag. Have your wrists been shooting weird shit? So far. Okay, good. Everyone's just got an Uncle Ben thing. We're all just stumbling over each other.

28:10The King of Comedy is the prior film in Martin Scorsese's career. It's not successful.

The Fall of Last Temptation

28:28200 domestic. Oh, right. Right. Also, everyone is just Pupkin now. That is every person now. That is unfortunately true. It was very on the money about where fans of things were headed. No. But Martin Scorsese, of course, after making that movie, is very focused on making his follow-up The Last Temptation of Christ. Okay? Which also, he'd read the novel. He wanted to have made 10 years earlier. Right. Paul Schrader had condensed a 600-page novel to a 90-minute script for him. He rewrote it with Jay Cox. Marty added a little bit with Jay Cox. In 83, Paramount, which is headed by Barry Diller and

29:05Michael Eisner and Jeff Katzenberg, you know, who obviously all, you know, dominate Hollywood for the next 15, 20 years in various ways, greenlight the movie. And then as they start to, like, scout locations, figure out casting, hear from nuns and priests around the world, Paramount gets cold feet. Katzenberg and Eisner suddenly find out that the movie is about Jesus Christ. Something that had overlooked up until that point.

29:36You know, Aidan Quinn was going to play the Christ in that film. And obviously, he's very young and beautiful at that time. And they apparently were okay with that. Marty says that some of the other casting people they were nervous about will probably cover that whole saga whenever we, you know, for our Last Temptation episode. I imagine so. And then the religious protests start to, you know, bubble up and all that. And Paramount is just... And also, they were going to shoot in Israel. And back then, you just didn't do that that much. Why? It's a normal place.

30:06I don't mean Israel specifically. I mean, just like, you know, shoot giant parts of your movie in far off places. Yes. This is true. Everything was LA. Right. Like, the way Marty puts it is like, Star Trek IV, the reason they're in San Francisco is the Paramount was like, that's as far as we want you going. You know, that's basically an overseas... Yeah. Like, a one-hour flight from LA, basically, that's fine. Yeah. So, uh, it falls apart. The right stuff comes out. The Irvin Winkler production, obviously, another Phil Kaufman movie, does so poorly. That is the final blow.

30:40Yeah. That they're just like, this auteur shit, big budget auteur shit, we just don't like it. Um, Jack Lang, the French Minister of Culture, then tries to get French money just from, like, the government of France to fund that movie. Uh, exactly. Very well said. Jesus would have to say that in the movie. Very well said. That's the proviso, you know. Uh, Harry Offland is Marty's super agent. At the time, he, you know, he starts shopping around other studios, but Marty's like, I need to survive. Like, my last movie was a bomb.

31:12Yes. I can't go crazy. Like, my response to Christ falling apart can't be just to, like, go renegade. This is his Raiders of the Lost Ark. I need to show people, like, be responsible and play ball. There is a screenplay written by Joseph Minion. Quite a good, quite a good name. 21, right? Yeah. That's so crazy. I think it was a film school project, right? Yeah, it was his senior thesis, I think. He got an A.

31:39Uh, congratulations. He got a gold star. The film was originally called Lies. Uh, then it was retitled A Night in Soho. It was written as his Columbia thesis. He said, I was under the spell of Kafka. I was obsessed with Orson Welles' The Trial. Uh, also things like David Mamet plays, which are, like, set in one night or whatever. Uh, Henry Miller, Norman Mailer's The American Dream. I was frantically, like, moving apartments in New York when I wrote it.

32:10So that energy is in there a little bit. Like, I felt homeless in New York, right? Like, you know, that's, he's putting a little bit of that in. He was just kind of going crazy. And he wrote After Hours, which is so good. It's, it's a pretty perfect screenplay. It really is. The film's obviously well-directed by Martin Scorsese. Have you heard him? Yes. Right. You're never going to believe this, David. It's actually a really funny coincidence. He is the director we're currently covering on this fire, unchopped podcast. But, but this, I do think this screenplay is, is so clever and perfect.

32:43Yes. It is. Um, it's, it's a money in the bank premise. It is one of those movies that kind of is, like, unofficially remade every five years. Right. I feel like people keep trying to do it and no one has ever gotten close. Right. It's, it's wild how, uh, it feels easy. The one crazy night sort of movie. Well, you could just riff on this. And even the amount of people who have done the New York version of it alone. I mean, even in the last 10 years, there was the night before is basically doing this on Christmas Eve.

33:13Nick and Nora's infinite playlist. Uh, The Lovebirds. The completely forgotten Michael Showalter directed Issa Rae Kumail Nanjiani comedy. I never saw that because I was kind of a COVID movie. It was one of the first planned wide theatrical release movies that they just announced it's going, it's going on fucking streaming. They sold it to Netflix immediately. It's not very good. And you, you, I remember even, I auditioned for, like, a couple small parts in that. And on paper, you were like, yeah, sure. It's been too long since someone tried to make After Hours. These are the right people.

33:43This is, this will be funny. It never works. No, I think, like you said, it just, setting it in any modern year is not, it just takes the magic out of it. Phone heard it. That's a lot of it. And I also think a lot of it is that people try to pile up too much incident. They get too crazy with the One Crazy Night. Yeah. The, you know, the way that Date Night descends into, like, guns and spies and all that shit. Another perfect example. Date Night is action movie After Hours. How about Good Time? Oh, sure.

34:13I mean, and Uncut Gems. That's like One Crazy Night, the worst version, right? Uncut Gems. They share so much DNA with it. That also, it goes a little more into crime thriller. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes, you're right. Because I think if it's like, things spiraling out of control after crime go wrong, that's different than the After Hours, which is, quote unquote, this happens to an ordinary person. Okay. Yeah. The ordinary-ish, right. You know, the yuppie nightmare. It's funny the whole way through. You're stressed out, but it remains funny the entire time. It's hilarious. And you want to see him go through the ring.

34:44Yeah. That's the other part of it. Yeah. Go on, Allie. No, there's just, there's a point in any safety crime movie where, like, the anxiety just overtakes everything. You're not feeling any humor anymore. Yes. And you're with a person who, through some lenses, might be considered villainous. I mean, in good times. Toxic. Yeah. He's a little, yeah, a little toxic. Yeah. Main character syndrome at times. But I think that's another part of it, is that this movie has a take on this character, because he is the yuppie nightmare. People miscalculate thinking, oh, if you make it more of an everyman, and the audience is let in, and the character is a surrogate, it becomes more of a conventionally fun comedy where you're watching them struggle.

35:26Them going, what? What's happening? Instead, you want a character where you want to see the screws turn in on them. Yeah. And him being sort of an everyman makes it better, because as soon as Rosanna Arquette dies, you're like, well, where the fuck is this going for the next hour? Yes. Yes. When everything is coming from the people around him, you don't know. You think it's good that Rosanna Arquette dies? You like her death? I think his reaction to it is so funny. It's so funny. He's like, fuck. Exactly. Exactly. JJ wants to point out, and I think this is interesting, you know, the unmentioned thing is that the film is very obviously influenced by Joe Frank, the writer and performer of radio dramas and monologues.

36:05It's been alleged by Joe Frank and others that the opening act is basically ripping off a 1982 monologue he had called Lies, which is the first title of this script. Which had this 10-minute segment about meeting a weird woman in Greenwich Village. And he says, like, I saw the movie. I was like, oh, yeah, like, this part is ripping me off. And then he was like, to be clear, the rest of the movie's not. Like, then it goes in whatever direction it wants. But I'm clearly, you know, being ripped off here.

36:37A 2000 profile of him by Salon. Remember Salon? Oh, boy, do I. Says that he was paid off for a film that had plagiarized some of his dialogue. That definitely is After Hours. They don't say the name. But he did get a settlement one day for something like that. You can listen to the monologue. He's linked to it. And I'll read this URL right now. No, I won't. It'll be linked in the description. Sure we can. It's in the dossier there. You can link it out.

Griffin Dunn and Indie Producing

37:03Anyway, this script finds its way to Amy Robinson and Griffin Dunn. Via one of his teachers, Dusan Makajev. I don't know. He's a Serbian director who taught at Columbia. Gives it over to Amy Robinson, who loves the script. Thinks it's so crazy and dark and cool. And, I mean, I guess the real question is, like, is Griffin Dunn famous? No, no. This is what I want to zoom out for a second to talk about. So Amy Robinson, who produced the film with Griffin Dunn.

37:34And is very good in Mean Streets and basically doesn't act again. Has a couple little things, but was very open about... She's the female lead of Mean Streets, to be clear. She was very open about that. She just felt like the stuff she was reading was dog shit. Sure. And I think she... Not Dog Day. No. She wishes she was reading Dog Day. But she was like, I was just in Mean Streets. And she's reading scripts where she's like, all of this sucks. I don't want to be in bad movies after I've been spoiled by being in a great movie made by one of the best directors ever.

38:06So she starts getting more interested in producing. Griffin Dunn is a very well-connected young man. Yeah. His father's Dominic Dunn. He comes from the Dunn, Didion, sort of larger orbit, right? Yeah. So this is someone who's kind of like from a young age at the nexus of like high culture in the United States of America and certainly in the tri-state area. And I think he had a similar kind of frustration of, I have all this ambition to be an actor and the auditions I'm getting suck.

38:36Like he just has all this piss and vinegar to be like, I'm going to find projects that I produce for myself to star in so I can will the kind of vehicles I think I should have into the world. He also produces a ton of shit that he's not in. Like he and Amy Robinson have an incredible producing track, including Chili Scenes of Winter and Running on Empty. Yes. Correct. That's like the kind of stuff they're working on while this is all coming together. Because it's a little like Michael Douglas where it's like, despite being so well-connected, I'm not clicking as a movie star.

39:10Let me start producing stuff and maybe eventually, if I'm legitimate enough as a producer, I can produce my own vehicles and people won't say this is self-dealing or whatever. Chili Scenes of Winter is John McClendon Silver. It's a great movie. That's like 79. Baby, It's You. Yes. That's a John Sells movie. I've never seen that. That's his first. He has a small role in that, right? He's not the lead. It's Richard Rosanna Arquette and Vincent Spano.

39:40Vincent Spano. Yes. Also the first Robert Downey Jr. movie. And he would later play Iron Man. Excuse me. His first movie is Pound. Yes. His first movie as like an adult. Yeah. I just Pound is an incredible Cinematrix play.

39:55Does Gryffindon have an acting role in that one? Not that I can see, but maybe he had a tiny one. Let's take a look at it. But obviously it connects him with Rosanna Arquette. It connects him with... He has a small role in Chili Scenes. He has a... No, he's just a producer, maybe. Yeah. But obviously... But he is obviously an American War from London. Yes. The John Landis movie. Mm-hmm. Which he's excellent in. He's excellent in. He's very good. He's not the star. David Naughton is the main guy. But he's the guy who pops. He's the fun character. Because he's all... He has the dreams where he's all fucked up. Yeah. And it's just... He's got the color.

40:25You know, he's got all the exciting... Have you seen that film? A long time ago. Mm-hmm. I don't remember much of it. It's very good. An excellent movie made by someone who's responsible for several deaths. In that sort of canon, it's pretty close to the top. Yeah. I would say. It's really good. But it's got this great device where at the beginning of the movie... Spoilers for the basic premise of American Werewolf in London. These two backpackers are mauled by werewolves and... Or by wolves. And one survives and one doesn't. And the one who survives is haunted by his friend.

40:56Right. And Griffin Dunn is the friend who appears to him in these long conversations. But every time he shows up, his body's decaying further. So it starts with just he's got the scars and then his skin is rotting and then he eventually becomes a skeleton. That's the other thing. So every image of him... That's awesome. ...in the movie past the first 20 minutes is iconic. Yeah. Because it's Griffin Dunn wearing Rick Baker at the peak of his game. Just the most impressive. Yeah. Just so cool. And he gets to be the fun character because he's the sort of afterlife, let me explain to you what's happening guy.

41:27Yeah. Now in After Hours... Yes. ...he's the After Hours guy. Right. And his skin is pretty good. Sure. Well, he gets a little sweaty. A little clammy. Yeah. But it looks good. Okay. He's not breaking out. We crushing on Griff? Been done? I'm going to pin a thought here that I want to discuss more. Yeah. And this is a thing that it feels like our very young collective generation talks about a lot online, the cool place where the kids are, is why don't people look normal in movies anymore? We've lost normal people. He is such a perfect example of that sort of complaint of like, he's a very handsome,

41:59charming man, but his teeth are a little yellow. He's got some weird gaps. He's got the unibrow. You know, his chest hair pattern is not like carved. It's the best. You're making him sound like an ogre. No, but this is the thing compared to movies today. I totally get what you're saying. Everyone in this movie, Roseanne Arquette is so beautiful. Yeah. But she doesn't have veneers. No. Oh my God. She hasn't gotten a bleph. Yeah, but I hate the bleph. Can I say I hate the bleph? See, I think I hate the bleph and then I'm like, would I get it? Yeah. I just, I'm not gonna.

42:30It's the opposite of the look I like. Okay. So I've been watching videos of women's blephs. They cut the, it's horrifying. They cut the skin off of your eyelid and then pull it up so that you're like, when your eyelid is hooded, it like removes the hood. So it's why, you know, like Emma Stone's eyes? Allegedly. Allegedly. You know how they look bigger now? Yes. Bleph. You don't need eyelids. You'll start noticing it everywhere. Eyelids are hot. I like eyelids. They're a thing I'm attracted to. Sure. Did we evolutionarily like grow eyelids because they protect our eyes and keep them moist?

43:03We don't need them anymore. Is the bleph thing going to be like the jerk where in two years all of these people are blind and it just turns out they've been like the dust has been going straight? That is my fear. Right. It's so scary. Don't get near my eyes. It looks weird. This is a movie where incredibly beautiful, charismatic people all look like human beings. Catherine O'Hara is so beautiful. This movie is a babe parade. Yeah. Let's just be honest. We're talking about watching this recently. Babe, babe, babe, babe. Or watching this film often. Babe, babe, babe, babe. Yes. When Catherine O'Hara died and we were in the middle of a record and we were all really

43:36upset and I went home and I was like, I want to watch something. What should I watch? You were like, after hours. Yeah. After hours. And I did, knowing that this series was coming up or likely, I only watched from Catherine O'Hara on. Yeah. But she's hall of fame in this and we should acknowledge that among other things, this of course is a Home Alone prequel that explains how Kevin McAllister's parents meet. Yeah. And they're part of a woke mob together. Wow. She's always looking for someone. She is. John Heard was hot. He's the, John Heard who plays the angry bartender, I guess, in this one, is the star of Chili

44:08Scenes of Winter. It's a lot of the kind of like Edie Robinson, Griffith Dunn verse. Yeah. And then people that Scorsese loves. Like Scorsese loved SCTV. I'm supposed to direct that weird Netflix thing. Right. Catherine O'Hara feels like a move from him. This is her at her. Yeah. She is. She's so fucking. But I mean, Fiorentina, I mean, Arquette, like you're saying, Terry Garr, Berta Bloom. What if you fumbled the four coolest women of the 1980s? And haven't we all been there? He's just. Unfortunately, yes. He's just fucking.

44:39It's a fumble parade. Bo Bichette up there just swinging a mess. Who's Bo Bichette? What does that mean? He's on the mess right now. I was having a bad time. I love you, Bo Bichette. All right. So they love this script and then they watch Vincent, the short by Tim Burton. We discussed this a little bit, I think, on our Tim Burton series, which was his sort of calling card short. It's very good. You can watch it. It's stop motion. It's really good. Yeah. It's on a lot of the nightmare releases. It might be on Disney Plus. You certainly can find it. Has Frank and Weenie not happened at this point? No, it's just Vincent that they are intrigued by him, you know, off of.

45:10And they go and meet him. He was still at Disney. They said he was this, you know, he had like, you know, a short sleeve shirt and then pens in his pocket that are like bleeding into the shirt. You know, they're basically just like, this is right. A genius, but like a little dork. Yeah. And he'd already done little drawings of the characters. He'd read the script. You know, he'd drawn characters with the big bug eyes, like any Tim Burton thing. And Dunn told me that he was building like extensive models. Like he made little foam board kind of, and this is what the set would be in the angles and everything.

45:41It was going to be a lot more stylized. Now, so now their package is Griffin Dunn is the star and Tim Burton is the director. They actually get Terry Garr attached pretty early. And she's a pretty fucking big deal. She's an Oscar nominee, but no one is interested. Like, so as much as it is kind of like, oh, Burton stepped aside. It's also like at the very most, they were just going to get a tiny budget for this thing because it was this like weird dark movie that they're pitching around. And of course, Amy Robinson does know Martin Scorsese because she was in Mean Streets.

46:11So she says, we hadn't gotten too far with Tim. We hear Last Temptation got shut down. And I'm like, look, you shouldn't ask. This doesn't hurt to ask. And as we said, Tim Burton's like, I'm not saying you like that. I would, I gratefully withdraw. Like I will not be, you know, fighting with Martin Scorsese over this. I'm sure I'll figure it out. Which he does. And they all, it all worked out. And I guess Frankenweenie gets made in this period of time when he's attached, developed.

46:42Yeah, because that's 84 that that is, which is another short film of his that's very good. Yes. Yes, you know. But I think, I think part of the impetus for him getting that off the ground, you know, it was A, Disney wanted something to do with Burton because they had him under contract. And B, Burton need to prove that he could do live action to help kind of gain trust for After Hours. Everyone ends up fine. Marty is basically like, I am in quasi-director's jail a little bit. I'm reading scripts. None of them make any sense for me. I had almost died from doing too much coke and having such a weak body.

47:15I mean, he puts it in a slightly more soft way than that, but it's true. His body was uncontrolled. Right.

47:22And, you know, he's like, I'm not going to subject myself to fighting with executives, waking up at the crack of dawn, you know, making a movie, putting myself through this, unless it's something I really care about. Like, I'm not going to just take a gig. This is ostensibly an independent film as well, right? Sure. Well, let me see. Yeah. Okay. Oh, right. Beverly Hills Cop, for example. He was offered that. Mm-hmm. With Sylvester Stallone, you know, back when it was Sylvester Stallone. It's crazy to think that he was seen as so kind of, dare I say it, washed at that moment

47:52that they were like, Martin Scorsese will take fucking paychecks to loan vehicle gigs. Because that's the thing. It's like Katzenberg and Eisner at Paramount clearly feel bad. Like, they're like, sorry, we can't make you're the Christ movie. Yeah. Beverly Hills Cop? Right. And like. He's still respected, but it's like, obviously, you now need to work for us rather than us working with you. Right. And he's like, what's that? And they're like, it's a fish out of water movie. And he's like, what's that? You know, like, he's just, it's just not his guy. And they're like, you know, he's a cop from somewhere. He comes to New York and he's like, oh, you mean like the Don Siegel picture Coogan's Bluff?

48:25And they're like, no, Beverly Hills. Stop it. Like, shush.

48:30Witness is another one. Recently covered on Blank Check. Very fire podcast. Thank you very much. And Marty was kind of like, I'm not going to Pennsylvania. That doesn't make any sense as well. You know what I mean? We've all been. Yeah. Like, I can imagine. Now, Marty, you know, he'll get his ass to Oklahoma, maybe. But back then, he was like, I don't know from Amish, right? Like, that's not my milieu. Don't put me in a field. Oh, they should make an after hours with an Amish guy. They should. Like, a rumspring after hours?

49:01Yeah. Yes. Or he just, like, takes three steps away from his family home and he has the same level of panic. Where am I? Then he gets after hours. Guess what Martin Scorsese's reaction is? I know just how this guy feels. He's reading it and he's being like, relate the hell out of this one. Uh, and, uh, he says, what it really is, it's a reaction against my year and a half in Hollywood, trying to get Last Temptation of Christ made. I always make personal films. So, like, that I'm in this, even if I didn't write it or whatever. And, yeah, he just, he loves the sort of trapped in the underworld kind of idea.

49:36You know, the way he puts it is, like, you're playing a game. You can't pass go. You have to go to jail. You can't collect $200. You're just, like, trapped in a board game that you can't leave. He's, so he's into it. Here are some of his influences on the movie. Isle of the Dead, a Val Lewton movie that takes place, like, over one night on a Greek island. Okay, I've never seen that one. Neither have I. North by Northwest. That's, uh, sort of, like, the world is against him. He's been framed. He's, like, on the run. You know what I mean? And that movie's made by Alfred Hitchcock. That's right. That's who directed it. Horny King. Yeah. Uh, and then some Fritz Lang movies, like, M, Ant Hunt, Woman in the Window.

50:10You know, nighttime noir-y nightmare movies, stuff like that. Do we think that if he was alive today, Alfred Hitchcock would become a mukbang streamer? Oh, God. What is that one again? I wish. That people, like, pay you to eat too much food, right? Isn't that what it is? Yeah. Yeah. I see an eating broadcast. Yeah. And the watchers are called feeders? Oh, I don't know. I think because they're pledging money. I have not gotten granular about it. Good evening. Please remember to rate, review, hit that notification bell.

50:43Delicious. I mean, wasn't his whole thing that he would have, like, two entrees and he'd be like, do you want food? The great story of all time. Right. Yeah. Like. That Mel Brooks wanted to get dinner with him. Oh, wait, when he was, like, do it again. Yes. Right. And he came with the check and he goes, one more time. He's just like, run that meal back. Uh, yeah. You know, he's got a lot of other fucking influences. Rear window, I would assume. Uh, yeah. A lot of, a lot of Hitchcock, a lot of Fitzsing. The character feels very, yeah. Yes. So it gets picked up by Geffen. Right. You know, so it's, it is an indie, but obviously Geffen is a, you know, a robust company.

51:14It's a little closer to nowadays where a lot of studio slates are actually largely financed and partially owned by companies like Legendary and New Regency. Right. And Warner Brothers distributes it. Right. Geffen funds it for $4.5 million. So, like, a pretty small budget. Um, yeah. It's pretty cool. It qualified for Indie Spirit Awards. Mm-hmm. And, you know, it comes with Griffin Dunn attached and Marty is fine with that. Yeah. He's never like, Bobby De Niro will play the punch. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, I guess he could have been a fucker about it.

51:46Yeah, he could have, but it's, I mean, it is his project.

Rules on Set and Casting Choices

51:49Yeah.

Rules on Set and Casting Choices

51:50Now, famously, I'll quote Griffin Dunn in, I'll just quote him here. Please. Yeah. Marty knew I was a single man in New York who liked to party. Mm-hmm. Yeah. He knew I liked the ladies. And he said, very important for Paul Hackett to have a look of desire in his eyes throughout the whole movie. And that's what gets him into this mess in the first place. So, I need you to not have sex for the eight weeks of the shoot. He basically put, like, boxing rules on him. No sex. You have to be, like, sweating horndog bullets in my movie.

52:20You know what I mean? You can't be going out having fun after. I'm just going to say, Griffin Dunn, bit of a legendary stick man. It's someone who actually needed parameters around him. I mean, look. I think would trip into sex. Griffin Dunn is hot and cool. Yeah. It is crazy to think that Marty's just like, I know what you're like. No fucking. And Griffin Dunn's like, for how long? But I really think his reputation preceded him as, like, ladies throw themselves at him. Because one day, he starts to do a scene with Linda Fiorentino. And as Griffin says, I was just too goddamn relaxed.

52:53And Marty went, cut. Let me talk to you. You got laid. Jesus shit. Was it the scene where he's giving her a massage? Yes. Yeah. That was the scene. He's like, I just come off a little too chill. And Marty was like, did you get laid, you fucker? You fucked it all up. It's funny because that's one of my favorite scenes of his in the movie. But it works because the movie has to make him fail harder to overcorrect how smooth he thinks he's being. Yes. I agree. The moment where he thinks that she's leaning in to kiss him and actually just falls asleep on his shoulder.

53:26Yeah. Is maybe my single, like, favorite performance moment in the whole movie. Right.

53:32His heenabrow. He says his mother is half Mexican. Mm-hmm. And he got the look from his mother. Okay. Fair enough. He says he's done three movies where, this is funny, where the interest has quadrupled since it was made. American Werewolf of London, This, and Practical Magic, which he directed. Yes. He's not in. Was rudely not asked back for the sequel. One of your favorite movies ever made. Amazing movie. Insane movie. That's one of your favorite. It's a demented movie. Sims has always been pushing to do a Griffin Dunn director series.

54:03I love two of his movies very dearly. It's only four. Is that right? I think that's right. You love the two studio movies. I love Addicted to Love, which is an insane movie. And I love Practical Magic. The other ones. Lisa Pickard is famous. Which I've never seen. And The Accidental Husband. Is there another one or is it just those four? There's Fierce People. Oh, yes. Yep. And The Accidental Husband. And then he didn't make the documentary about Joan Didion, you know, his aunt. Yes. Ant. Yes.

54:33Which is very good. Which I, yeah, which was on Netflix or whatever. But that's it. Yeah. Yeah. But have you ever seen Addicted to Love? I have not. You would like it. Really? Yes. It's like Meg Ryan and Matthew Roderick, both in kind of like mid-90s. We're not sure how to still be famous and relevant era. You know what I mean? Like they're both still a little bit searching for a new thing. This is 90s? It's like 97. Okay, so like 10 years after When Harry Met's Out. Yeah. Roderick has the most fascinating 90s. He does. I'll never get over how weird his 90s searching is where he's like, maybe I'm the guy who studies Godzilla.

55:04But maybe I'm Inspector Gadget. Yeah, but that's the thing where he's like, I don't want to always be a nerd so I'm addicted to love. He's like, what if I'm like kind of a trashy douchebag? And it's like, no, but I'm interested in what a weird fit this is for you. And then election is how he like closes out the decade where he's like, you fucking cracked it. Right. But it's about basically he breaks into a building and starts surveilling. It doesn't look, we can't get into it right now. It's just, you should check it out. Okay. And have you seen Practical Magic?

55:35Yeah, I don't love it. Whoa. I got it. Are you, how are you feeling about the sequel? Looks like just the worst dog shit. It's so crazy. Yeah. It's just, it just looks like a sweater commercial. You know, what, Suzanne Beer? I hate sweater commercials. They just, you can't turn on the TV without seeing five sweater commercials. But I mean, like you've seen the, you've seen the trailer, right? No, no. I actually haven't seen the trailer. Oh, it's just, it's like that weird flat, you know, like it's just so bad. Can I throw out a new theory? Yeah. Because that was, you know, everyone's reaction to the Devil Wears Prada trailer.

56:09And then I thought the final film looked fairly good. It was pretty good. You know, within our modern landscape. I think these trailers are just like not fucking color timed. I think that so much of the look of these movies is done in post now. Yeah. And they don't even take the time to land on the look when they have, when they're constructing the trailer. It probably happens so late that all those things get dialed in. Yeah. Because you just see these trailers where you're like, why does this look like I shot it? Now, I know what color timing is, but, you know, but just in case someone out there doesn't

56:41know. It used to be a photochemical process. Now it's a digital process. It's also sort of like digital intermediate is not the same thing, but it's sort of a part and parcel with the same stage of the process, which is like manipulating the colors of the movie, either because with lighting conditions or whatever, you didn't get the exact look you want or you want to push something into an extreme. Like a movie like this is probably one where there was a lot of color timing work because it is really tough to shoot exterior nights, especially in street scenes where there's not a lot of

57:13ambient lighting, you know?

57:17Feel free to skip, but this is a fun story. Skip.

57:22Terry Garr has always been aboard. Marty knows her. For that part? Or was she almost for that part? OK, Marty knows her. And so she's kind of grandfathered in. She was always going to play that part. Rosanna Arquette didn't audition. I guess she'd been in Baby It's You and Marty knew her a little bit. Is Susan after this? Desperately seeking. I just call her Susan. That's the same year. Wow. She had a hot. That's an incredible movie. Have you seen that movie? You would love it. I'm really flopping on this.

57:52No, you're not flopping at all. I'm just saying you would really like that movie. Yeah. You would really like that movie. She should be. Yeah. You watch this and you're like, why isn't she the biggest star on earth? She had a moment where she was on the cusp. Yeah. Where she was in the mix. Yeah, but you never. I don't hear people reference Rosanna Arquette in the same way that they are quick to reference other actresses. That's because the children aren't in schooling. They're not in the schools. David, we got lunch with Timothy Hitmaker Simons and brought up a Rosanna Arquette story and you went, why were you guys hanging out with Rosanna Arquette? And I was like, because she was in draft day and you said, I have no memory of her being

58:25in that movie. And you said she felt like she was mostly cut out of it or whatever, right? Yeah, but even still, when she shows up and stuff, weirdly, despite it being so big, it feels like everything post-Pulp Fiction, even if you've seen it, you're like, Rosanna Arquette was in that? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, I love her and I love her in this, obviously. But yeah, she kind of, she says like, everyone involved in After Hours used to hang out at this New York bar and restaurant called Cafe Central. Bruce Willis was the bartender.

58:56De Niro and Walken were always in there. Griffin and Amy were always in there. Marty was always in there. You know, like that. So she's just kind of like, Marty's just tapping the downtown scene. Wait, Bruce Willis was at that point, like, employed as a bartender? No, I think it's more just he loves to tend the bar. Oh, okay, I see, I see. I must just call this out quickly. I just was wanting to confirm in my head that Rosanna Arquette did get a fair amount of nominations for this movie. She got a Best Actress of Supporting Role nomination from the BAFTAs. For After Hours.

59:26For After Hours. Deserved. The Independent Spirit Awards nominated her for lead. And this won the Indie Spirit for Best Picture. Yep. The Golden Globes nominated her instead for Desperately Seeking Susan that same year. So I think she was a little competing against herself. Yeah. Because Desperately Seeking Susan comes out later in the UK, she gets a nomination for that the next year. So she is in this zone where she's like on the bubble for Oscars and getting nominated for all these movies. But then I just scrolled down and noticed that, of course, in the year 2000, she was

59:57nominated for Choice Hissy Fit. Oh. From the Teen Choice Awards for the whole nine yards. Did she win? She did not. She was a nominee. You want me to find out? I'll tell you, please, because the other nomination I want to call out is the Stinkers Bad Movie Awards nominated her for most annoying fake accent for the whole nine yards. Is that a category that gets five solid nominees? What accent was she doing? New York or some shit. I have no memory. I mean, to the point, I have no memory of her being in that movie. Which year was that?

1:00:27Sorry, the bad accent year? Yeah. She has a Toto song, though. I was going to say, what year is the song? That's 80s for sure. So I will tell you that she lost to Adam Sandler for Little Nikki for most annoying fake accent. I want to say it's 84. That is accurate. I think that Toto album came out in 84, but I might be wrong. I'm getting a lot of, that's Isolation is the Toto album. Roseanne, Roseanne. It is a song about her. It is about her. But no, that's from Toto 4, which was 82. Oh, wow. Oh, okay. That's, of course, the album that has Africa.

1:01:00Of course. Which is a very... No, that's a Weezer song, David. Okay. I can also tell you... Yeah, we're young here. That... We're so young. Weezer, of course. Weezer. The band of Gen Z. Weezer. Weezer. No, it kind of... There's a portion of Gen Z who is very Weezer. They've reclaimed it. What? What? Me. Ritual sacrifice that Rivers Cuomo do to get another generation's worth... It's them doing, like, the fucking Africa cover and shit. I don't like their Africa cover. It really irritates me. Like, that's the most beautiful song ever. Weezer, do an irritating cover of something? Sorry. And I truly loved Weezer when I was a teen.

1:01:32I've been... Yeah. I mean, but I stop at Green Album. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll go... Or what's it called? Maladroids? I'll go to Make Believe with Maladroids. Yeah. Make Believe annoys me. Maladroids has good stuff. That's the one that has... Yeah. Feels like Summer is a good song. Is it? If you hear it in a good mood, it's really... It's like the new Dua Lipa album. I heard it in New York, and it pissed me off because I was like, no one feels like this. And then I heard it at the beach, and I was like, oh, okay, like... Now, how did you hear it at the beach? I pressed play. Yeah, I'm guessing. I sat my ass down and listened.

1:02:03Step one, go to beach. Step two, sit your ass down. You want to have something really sad? What? I haven't been to the beach yet this year. Oh, no. A nation cries. How dare. I need to get to the beach. Maybe next week. Get on that Rockaway Bound A. Oh, I got a car. Oh, fuck. Oh, I drive to the car. I just said I drive to the car. David's really into boogie boarding. Yeah. No, no, I am not. Can't say that. He does the banana boat. I have an inflatable banana boat, and I just bring it to fucking Rockaway Bound A.

1:02:34You blow it up with your life. After hours, too. I can tell you that the Teen Choice Award for Choice Hissy Fit was given to Lisa Kudrow for Hanging Up that year, which is demented. How many teens saw Hanging Up? No, it's weird, but that is also the Analyze This Year. That's what they should have given it to her for. Was it a tied award? No, and I can tell you the other nominees. Or was Analyze This 99? What the fuck am I talking about? Analyze This 99. Yeah. I can tell you the nominees for Choice Hissy Fit were Lisa Kudrow, Rosanna Arquette, Joan

1:03:08Cusack for Toy Story 2, one of Jessie's Hissy Fits, where I guess she's like, Woody, I don't want to be condemned to life abandoned or whatever. Yeah, right. John Cusack for High Fidelity. He has great Hissy Fits in that. Yeah, and I like nominating a man in this category. Cameron Diaz for Any Given Sunday. I mean, I've seen that movie plenty of times. Stop playing football. That is too violent. Angelina Jolie in Girl Interrupted. She's mentally ill. This is a very weird category. That's a very different thing. Ben Stiller in Mystery Men. Now, he makes sense.

1:03:39He's Mr. Furious. He's Mr. Furious. All he does is throw his Hissy Fits. Jodie Lynn O'Keefe in Whatever It Takes, which is like a teen comedy with a James Franco look so cursed, you must look upon it. James Franco kind of rocking the Travolta Pomeranian hairdo. I've had Franco's on the mind a lot recently, and that's crazy. Are you okay? Doctors are available in 24 hours a day in New York City. If you take antibiotics, you get that out of your system. I've got Franco on the mind. I read If Beale Street Could Talk, and then I watched the movie.

1:04:10Which Dave is in, of course, playing a rabbi. There is no otter casting decision. He's a Hasidic Jew landlord. Hasidic Jewish landlord who rents an apartment to the main couple. I forgot about it. He's got like a sweater. He's like walking around with them. You read the book, and you have such a clear image of him, and then he shows up in the movie, and he's like, hey, guys, it's me. What the hell? I would assume that was almost a favor to a small budget movie, right? Like Franco's like, I'll be in your movie, right? But it's Dave, right? But it's Dave. That's the thing. It's Dave when he doesn't necessarily on paper.

1:04:43He's not that famous. He has a yarmulke on to show that he's Jewish. And he's like the one total white ally in the movie. Yeah. He's the one good white person. He's like, don't worry, guys. I just love love. It's the one. Right. He's also a hippie. He's a hippie. It's the one moment in that movie that clanks off the backboard for me. I don't think it was written as a hippie. I think he just was playing Dave Franco with the yarmulke on. It's just crazy that choice, hissy fit made it all the way to 2018 before they finally did away with it. Who was the last winner?

1:05:14Who was the final winner? Madeline Petsch for Riverdale. Wow. They fucking folded TV in. She was hot Cheryl on hot Archie. Get the fuck out of here. I don't even know. Which one's Cheryl? I don't even know. I don't know. Do you think Ann Dowd has a Teen Choice Award for when she put Marley down? I'm looking. Did she put Marley down? She put Marley down. She kills that doll? She kills that doll? Yeah. That was... With a gun? A lot of people don't realize... She shot Marley in the head. She breaks his neck. A lot of people of our collective generation don't realize that their first introduction to Ann Dowd was her killing Marley.

1:05:45I should have brought that up to her. I completely forgot. What would you... I'm so sorry, sweetie. She would have taken you by the hands. I'm sorry. I can tell you that she has no Teen Choice Award. Kids Choice Awards? Dude, the kids Lincoln? Huge oversight by them. She has a Kids Choice Award for Best Villain as Aunt Lydia. Almost more surprising is that she only has won AARP Movies for Grown Up nomination. That is rude. For what? For compliance. Wow. Which she should have gotten an Oscar nomination for. She's very good in that movie. I didn't love that movie.

1:06:15No, I don't either. She was like undeniably... Right. She's so good. That was one of those like... That was like a DIY Oscar campaign too, right? Because that movie cost like four bucks. The campaign was her being like, I'm paying out of pocket because this movie has no... Budget. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. David. Yeah, we're doing great. Okay. After Hours. Yes, you're right. You're so right. Okay. Catherine O'Hara, I just want to say, as you said, Marty was a huge FCTV fan. Yep. She says she remembers being pumped up by Marty where he would go, who's this little fucker?

1:06:46He thinks he can tell you what to do? You're the one helping him. Like he would like kind of agitate her before they called action. Like you hate this guy, by the way. He sucks. Like he's really annoying. Uh, John Hurd, he'd been in a chilly scenes of winter and Cheech and Chong, of course, are in the film. Now, some people count this as a canonical Cheech and Chong entry. Because they basically are being themselves. That's the question. Being those characters. Does anything negate them being Cheech and Chong? They shout out their character names. Right. They are called Neil and Pepe.

1:07:17But there's also like, you know, Corsican Brothers is a movie where kind of like the Muppet movies, they're like playing their dynamic, but they're playing other characters. Well, funny enough, you should mention the Corsican Brothers because when they were in Cannes, that's how they met Marty. Right. And that's, uh, yeah, right. And I also want to say, done, you know, they have this script and Marty was like, I think these guys should be like Cheech and Chong.

1:07:48Yeah. And Griffin was like, it could just actually be Cheech and Chong. Sure. Like, why not? Why not? You're like, but yes, he met him at Cannes and then he called them and said, hey, this is Marty Scorsese. You remember me? And they said, yeah, the little Italian guy. I think it was Chong specifically. I just love the idea of him saying that to Marty. Now, this, this might stun you guys to learn, but, um, everyone on set, including Martin Scorsese and Griffin Dunn were very intimidated by Linda Fiorentino, possibly because she's the hottest and coolest woman alive.

1:08:18Yeah. We, we were texting with our, our buddies, our news and deals group thread the other day and Fantasy just did a quick Fiorentino Hall of Fame. Um, and she is one of those people where if you just lay it out there, the top five or top six, uh, the impact she had, especially on young developing male minds was pretty seismic. She's such a, she's the sculptor. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. She's the best, uh, but, uh, but a notoriously intense person. Sure. Um, but in this movie, incredible, but did scare the shit out of everyone.

1:08:52Will Patton in a role where you're like, this is Will Patton who later plays like, you know, farmers with big mustaches or whatever. Yeah. Or like evil farmers. Right. Or evil farmer with an even bigger mustache. I sold out your farm. He had been in Sam Shepard's Play Fool for Love. Marty had loved it. Randy Quaid part, I'm assuming. Right. And, but apparently he was basically like, I totally knew the After Hours world. Like I got that, you know, I knew how to play like a scary, weird artist guy. Horst. Horst. He's so cool.

1:09:23Yeah. He is cool and hot. Yeah. He's hot. His energy is intense. It's crazy. Yeah. Uh, film was shot in 40 nights. For Marty, that's quick. Yeah. I would say when you watch this movie, you're like, oh, did they make it in 20 days? No, 40. But for him, that's quick. He turns to Michael Ballhaus, uh, probably his most consistent cinematographer in his career. This is their first collaboration. He knew him from Fassbinder movies, which were very low budget, tight schedule movies.

1:09:54So he kind of was like, I feel like you'll be good at quick setups and all that. Versus King of Quality, whereas we discussed him and his DP were kind of encouraging the worst traits in each other. He thought Fred Shuler was slow and right. It only made him slower and all that. Ballhaus had also shot Baby It's You. So he's got a little bit of that. Got it. Marty considers making this movie a rejuvenation that can like rekindle his love of movie making, like he just loved making this movie. It was like so fun and free. Like Last Waltz is that after New York, New York. And this is that after King of Comedy where he needed to be saved a little.

1:10:27And like, it's like they start work at five o'clock at night. They end at five in the morning. The streets of Soho are basically empty. It's like really easy for them to shoot versus King of Comedy where like every New York scene was really hard. Uh, and they just had the best time. You can feel it. There's a lightness about it that is really nice. Also, there's so much, uh, Goodfellas DNA and the way the camera moves and it's really fun to watch. It's so exciting. Yeah. And, and it's just a movie. I've shown this movie to so many friends over the years because casual cinema friends like are not really aware of it, especially back in the day, I guess.

1:10:59And you could just always be like, there's a little Marty gem you don't know about. And it's this and it's, yeah, it's the best. The ending of course is added later. Yes. There's a film tested. The ending didn't work. What was the original ending? Do we know? I don't know if it's on the Criterion disc. I know it was on the original DVD back in the day where you could see the storyboards for the original ending, which are still the Verna Bloom character. But instead of her engulfing him in paper mache, he was going to crawl inside of her womb. So that was an idea.

1:11:30But the actual ending that audiences are shown, he's just still in the sculpture and it ends. Got it. He doesn't make it back to the office. And audiences were like, what? You know, like he's just trapped? The first time I watched this, I thought that her missing husband was in the paper mache. Oh, sure. Not missing. You know what I mean? But that might be sort of the implication that, yes, he's somewhere. Yes. Michael Powell is on set and he pitches, what if he ends up in a hot air balloon and just flies over the city? Good. And they're like, that's a great idea. But then they're like, it's a little boring though.

1:12:00Like the energy of it doesn't quite match. And then he shows it to De Palma and Spielberg, his buds. And then someone, I think it's Minion, the screenwriter actually has the idea that you're talking about that, yeah, that he was going to be birthed by Werner Blum onto the West Side Highway. Would be reborn. And David Geffen is like, the money man is like, that's disgusting. I will not fund that. Once again, storyboards of him crawling into her womb. Right. And then he starts doing baby Def Jam comedy.

1:12:32And that, and that, right. Yes. We were talking about this off mic. There's an AI account that does baby Def Jam comedy. And I regret to inform you, that's pretty well written. But Michael Powell, once again, then finally is like, what if he just goes back to work? And they're like, oh yeah, right. That makes the most sense. I think it's brilliant. I love this. Perfect testing like crazy. You can't believe it wasn't the ending they had from the get go. Because you're like, oh, of course, this is a perfectly written screenplay. That's the idea from the beginning, right? Right. That he's right back there. And the music's playing again, the Beethoven or whatever, you know. And the camera's going crazy. The camera's going crazy. And you're like, yeah, baby, that's life in New York City.

1:13:03Let's go Mets. Is this a divisive ending? No, no, no, no. It was, it was. It tested very well. The divisive was when they, he didn't make it back to the office. But then the movie comes out and we'll talk about the movie. And like, they're kind of all like, we made a fucking hit here. And then it just like does fine. And they're all a little nonplussed. They're all like, what? This rocks. Makes like 10 million. Yeah, it did okay. It wins best director at the Cannes. Right. And it wins best film at the Independence Spirits.

1:13:34But it's like not a breakout. Yeah. But, you know, whatever. Like, so it goes. Fuck you, I guess. Yeah. That's what Marty says. And then he goes and makes color money where it's like, that actually is a huge hit. Well, sure. It's in the way that you move. Yeah, in the way that you move. Yeah. So, um, it's about, uh, Paul Hackett.

The World of After Hours

1:14:06He's an annoying, horny little yuppie torp. Yes. He's, he's. He's hit a computer. With Bronson Pinchot. Yeah. They enter data. Yeah. He describes himself as a word processor. Yes. That was like a job back then. That was a job. That was an actual job. That's not like a slang term. That's what you'd respond to the listing. Need word processor. It's like the computer barely could do anything. You had to put the words in it. You had to massage it. You had to go, please, pretty, please. I consider myself a bit of a word processor.

1:14:38Um, yeah. He works at a, I don't know, a firm, a computer firm. I mean. Yeah. He works in money or some shit. Who cares? And he goes to a cafe. To read. To read. The Tropic of. Is he reading Tropic of Ancestor? Yes. Because that's why Rosanna talks to him, right? Correct. Right. Because he appears to be a man of letters. He's processing those words. You know what, Allie? You are correct. Another way that Foam would have ruined the movie is if he was scrolling, she would have no idea what he was doing. If he was listening to a fucking audio book.

1:15:09Yeah. If this came out today, he'd be listening to a fucking audio book. Oh, God. I'm trying to find which restaurant it is, but I don't actually know. I love. Some of the other locations are quite iconic. I love the cashier. My favorite moment in the, my second favorite moment in the movie is when he asks the guy for the pen and he like does a spin before he gives it to him. I think it's so fucking funny. He's practicing the dance moves. Yeah. All night. Yeah. He'd be so cliched to say this movie captures that weird New York energy, but that is the vibe sometimes. It's like that is what happens. Everyone's got like some weird bit going on with them that you only like brush against

1:15:41or whatever. And it's so inconsequential, but it like, it feels crazy in the moment. And like, you know, there's these stores called Bodegas and they have these like sandwiches no one else has. Bacon, egg, and cheese. Wow. Can I, can I throw out the other thing? Yes. I think this is like a fascinating AIDS crisis movie. Sure. I think it's like really deeply coded into the text of this film. It is a movie that is about a yuppie guy confidently entering a lot of what are traditionally queer spaces and everything feels hostile to him.

1:16:12But it's also a movie about what are the life and death stakes of trying to hook up with one person you find attractive, you know? And as he continues to like sort of bounce around different women, everything has the stake of like, if you say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing, are you possibly putting a foot in the grave? And down to him entering the punk scene, you know, dancing waiters. Um, I mean, obviously the art scene, like all these different places that he's going into and these people he's interacting with.

1:16:43And then you obviously build to a scene where he tries to find solace in a stranger who thinks that he's trying to pick him up, that he's, that he's a gigolo. And even the gay, um, neighbors who are trying to protect the guy's apartment. Right. It's one of the things that I think has made this movie age very well is it, I think a lot of filmmakers wouldn't have touched that stuff. Sure. You know, they would have stayed away from the queerness of New York and Soho at this point in time, especially as it was such a hot button political issue because of the AIDS crisis. And, you know, tried to make the most commercial, conventionally funny version of the movie.

1:17:18One crazy night movie. Right. They also probably wouldn't have Roseanne Arquette die. Spoilers, like, they'd stay away from some of the darkness. Oh, we'll be spoiling the film in this episode. We will be spoiling, in this episode, we will be spoiling this film. He sort of picks up Rosanna Arquette or she kind of leaves this breadcrumb of like, well, my roommate makes plaster of Paris paperweights of a bagel of cream cheese. Which I want. Yeah. Why? Yeah. I do. When he later in the movie is like, by the way, yes, I wanted to fuck you, but I do want the paperweight. I want the paperweight. And where are they?

1:17:48The papers are floating around my room right now. Right. It actually would serve a practical purpose for me. I could have put the paperweight in the basket with the $20 bill and I would have stayed in there. Um, if they made this movie today, she'd be giving him an Etsy link. She's on Marketplace. She wouldn't say, come to my apartment. I'm waiting for an embroidered Nick's tank top right now from Marketplace. And that's what the deal here is. A whole tank top takes forever to embroider. I know. She was like the early. It takes so long. The earliest I can do is this weekend. I'm like, how fast are you embroidering?

1:18:19I remember the other point I was going to make. Yes. Because it's, it's invoking one of your favorite points. Uh, uh, Fran Leibovitz, uh, close friend of Martin Scorsese directed two different things about her. Right. The criterion commentary is Marty and Fran. Fuck, I gotta listen to that. Yeah, it's good. Uh, but she has her great take. And she's just like, sodas are too expensive or whatever. I don't know, whatever. You can't get a cap on it. It's a dollar per bubble. Um, she has the great take that you love to bring up where the real devastation of

1:18:50the AIDS crisis was that it knocked out all the people who fucked. Yes. She's like, everyone cool died. And then New York sucked forever. Right. Right. And this is a movie that's capturing the final moments of not just a New York City that feels a little bit dangerous and undeveloped, but also a New York City as like these communities are starting to get hollowed out. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I think that's what's smart about it sort of like, without ever directly stating it, making it this movie that's about sex and danger and exploring the city and the night life and everything, is you're watching a thing like disappearing in real time.

1:19:23Sure. And even just the emptiness of the streets and everything. It's a little ghost feels so empty. Exactly. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. That's what the movie's about is sort of like, is any one night stand you have possibly going to lead to the end of everything? Yeah. And even in that cavernous apartment, when he thinks that he's going to go back out and there will be two people there and then there's just suddenly nobody there. Well, and it's also a straight man suddenly entering hookup situations that are, I would say, at this point in time, closer to the kind of like clandestine, deeply closeted, fearful

1:19:56circumstances that many queer hookups were happening in down to just being like, whose fucking apartment is this? Why is that name crossed out? Like, everything is a little bit mysterious and risk versus reward for him. Yeah. And it's all just driven by, God, that girl at the diner is really fucking hot. I'm going to write down her number and try to just go to her place. Another thing that I think younger generations have like immense nostalgia for where it's like you meet a person. You would pick someone up. And they just go like, come here later. Yeah. You don't have to send 17 texts to be like, OMW need me to pick anything up.

1:20:31Still good to come over. You don't need to arrange like, uh, pretend like, Hey, let me go up into your apartment and see what it's like. Right. Yeah. You don't have to text the group chat like dead bodies in that room. You just hang up papers. You just hang up the papers. It's actually impressive how quick the turnaround time is on the flyers because they're also well designed. They look great. She's talented. Yellow paper. This is what he won't acknowledge. Yes. Like he does. He can't, he can't see the forest from the trees here. Like once I'm in an apartment with Catherine O'Hara, I'm just like everyone else. I'm forgot. I'm just like, what are we doing?

1:21:02Me and you right now. Forget it. To paraphrase Ben. Yes. If I'm in this movie, it ends with me owning an island with Catherine O'Hara. I go, Hey, this is the real thing. What if we leave the country and go somewhere where they maybe couldn't extradite me? So, uh, he gets in a cab and has a hilarious chaotic cab ride where he loses his money. It's like a rollercoaster ride. Right. It's very, very funny. And he's trying to hold up his empty wallet as proof that there was once a $20 bill there. Which I think is very funny. It's so funny.

1:21:33Look. Look, that's very funny. These hold money? Right. Surely there was once money. The funniest moment in the movie is the subway moment, right? Of course. It's just like such perfectly dialed in. Well, both subway moments. Yes. The fair's gone up guy. Yes. And then the later guy. I love that guy. He's just like, what if I go to a party? That one shot of him jumping, running straight into the cop and then having to backtrack. Yeah. And then he jumps back out even though he could just walk through. So funny. He's like, that's the train. That's the one I wanted. He's so funny. That is my work stop on Spring Street on the C and the E.

1:22:03You work for Blank Check Productions. Oh, that's so true. Yeah. And there my work stop, of course, is, I'll throw them off the scent. Are you taking the six from Spring or the A, C, E? I take the C from my gym to work. Gorgeous. Blank Check Productions, your stop is Runkonkama. Yeah, that's right. Everyone get out there, too. Runkonkama.

1:22:23Yeah, no. The IND 6th Avenue. Spring Street Stop is where they film all the subway stuff. Because he's stuck down there. He's stuck in Soho. But first, of course, he gets to Kiki's. Before his trials really begin, he invokes the taxi, the cabbie's wrath. But he makes it to Kiki's apartment. Right. He only gets kicked out at the moment he reveals that he doesn't have the money when he's already made it to the destination. Marcy is Rosanna Arquette. Kiki is Fiorentina. But she's there. And she's making... 28 Howard Street. Sure. Yeah, you can go there anytime. How much does that cost now?

1:22:54Okay, you want me to look it up? Zillow? Zillow it.

1:22:59And she's making a giant papier-mâché sculpture of a screaming person. Let's see. Unit 3. It says price on request. Fuck you. Just tell me. It's a multifamily building in New York. It was built in 1915. I mean, so Soho does have, you know, these incredible cast iron buildings that are so distinctive and cool. And obviously, they all cost a billion dollars. It still kind of looks the same, though. Have any of you ever been to one of those Soho lofts? Sure. Not a loft. No. I toured some horrible Soho apartments, but never anything like that.

1:23:32Yeah. My buddy's aunt bought in the 70s an apartment on Franklin Street. Whoa. And so more like Tribeca, I guess. It was insane. It really was the same layout like it is in this movie. Just a giant open room with huge high ceilings. It was so nice. It's so funny. You see an apartment like that, and the answer is either, like, my family invented paper, and this is one of 20 places I own, or I was a waitress in 1972, and I took my tips one

1:24:06night and bought the building. I can tell you that apartment three on 28 Howard Street, which is a one and a half bedroom, like, four-through unit, rented for $17,000 a month. Do you have pictures? I can send you some. Now, to our listener, that is expensive and absurd and should be illegal. Absolutely. I also, Ali, sent you a plaster of Paris paperweight that Ben found on Etsy. Thank you. What, you just sent it to me? He sent it to us. Oh, thank God.

1:24:36I'll be buying. Yeah. $78. Um, so. Yeah. Worth it. Worth it. Um, so, yeah. All right. So, so the first sort of set piece is, right, like, interacting with crazy old Kiki, who's so cool and scary and sexy. And then Marcy comes home and sort of is odd. And there's the, the suspicion that there is a, a burn situation, I guess. I mean, how do we describe Griffin? I'm sorry. I just need to call out the Etsy listing for this plaster of Paris bagel and cream cheese paperweight. The seller is Kiki's bagels.

1:25:06Yes. It's very fun. I like that. It's very, you know, it's not a coincidence. They're going for it. Um, yeah. Come on. Talk me through the Marcy Kiki part. This is another thing that feels a little AIDS coded to me of there was just sort of like something mysterious about her body. Linda Fiorentino at first keeps talking about how nice his skin is and how he doesn't have any scars and how bad scars are. And then he keeps seeing these things. He sees medication and creams or whatever. Right. He sees this book of burn victims. And he has this very deep seated health anxiety from when he was younger. Totally. Yes. Because something happened. He went to the burn ward.

1:25:38Right. Even though he didn't have burns and the nurse was doing like psychological warfare on him of like, hey, if you take off your blindfold, we're doing more surgery on you. Yes. And right. He's sort of fascinated. He's worried about what he's going to see if she undresses, but also still kind of fascinated and wanting an answer. Mm hmm. Right. Uh, and everything about this woman seems mysterious. You know, everything that was like a luring about her at the diner now all starts to feel a little bit dangerous or unhinged or messy. What's, what's like the Gen Z term?

1:26:09What would, how do we describe her? Like, she has a disorder for sure. Okay. That's the term now. I can't diagnose. She's acting funny. Mentally unstable. Is that what the kids say? She seems right. She would have good Instagram stories is how we say it nicely. There we go. Um, and like, that is what he has. I feel like the, the barest grasp of, he actually doesn't understand. No. That really what's going on with her is she's just a very troubled person. Yes. He thinks there's some like mysterious burn thing going on with her.

1:26:40He thinks like, he's not just like, oh, she's wildly depressed or manic or something like that. You know, like. He's acting like if you pull the ribbon around her neck, her head will fall off. Exactly. Her head's going to fall off. A hundred percent. And instead it's like, this person has had several very abusive relationships. No. Yeah. Indeed. Yeah. Um.

1:26:56Uh. What are you typing? Uh. My wife's asking for a good place to go for a drink tonight. Oh. With her, with her girl. It's not with me. I'm not invited. My condolences. I'm doing bedtime. That's fine. Yeah. Um. What books in the lineup? Do you, do you pre-select what you're going to do for bedtime? No. My daughter picks. Obviously. Okay. For a while, she had these kind of like basic, like, uh, Marvel superhero books that she bought. Wow. Like when we went to the bookstore, she was like Captain America. And I. Are they the little golden books? They're that vibe. They're not little books. But they're the ones that are like, hello, my name is Captain America. This is my shield.

1:27:27It's like. There's no story. It's like explaining his stats. It's sort of explaining the origin story in a very, like, tasteful way. You know, whatever the origin story might be. It's like the back of a trading card spread out across 15 pages. Yeah. They're really, they're awful. I mean, she's been reading lots of cool books as well. Yeah. Is she still rocking the Dwayne Johnson? She hasn't touched on him in a while. Maybe he'll return. In what sense. So. Ben can explain, but he bought my daughter. Rocking the Rock. A little golden book. Correct. About the life of, the life and times of Dwayne Johnson.

1:27:58They make that. His divorce. His divorce is in the book. It is in the book. Someone's not like on Etsy making, that's like a real old book. No, I'll show you the cover. Wow. Was she just completely like taken? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. She calls it Rock Book.

1:28:15It is, as I've said on this podcast before, oddly, mostly concerned with the launch of his career, barely touches on the movies. It's mostly about him like being a football player. In like 20 years. She'll have references that kids her age don't have. She'll be like, you know, Wayne's staff. The Rock actually started out as a wrestler. What's smart is if he built a business flywheel in which all the different elements feed into themselves? Yeah. No, what's she, I mean, there's this book. He was finally ready to expand into the tequila space. Tickle Octopus, if you guys know that one. It's a big one for her right now.

1:28:46I don't know. You know, she's got lots of. Tickle Octopus. But they can tickle because they have eight arms. It's about a bunch of, a family of cavemen who like find an octopus and then they like, it teaches them to laugh. I don't know. It's a very strange book. I was not expecting a tickle octopus to have cavemen. Neither did I. Neither did I. And yet. But, you know, okay. So, all right. Why does he leave the apartment? He's just unnerved. He just is freaked out. No one transitions like David Sims. I'm just, I'm like, I'm keeping us going. I'm keeping us going, baby. No, no. Like, right. Like, there's no, she's just increasingly odd and he just kind of freaks out.

1:29:19Right. Yeah. And he's also had the, the extended flirtation with Linda Fiorentino where you feel him. She seems down to fuck. And Roseanne Arquette's like, kind of like odd and tough to figure out. She shows up at the door with her top off and she's like, is she home yet or what? Asks for a massage, falls asleep on his shoulder. David's fanning himself. I mean, she's just such an original crush for me. Her voice is so deep in this movie too. I know she's got the smoky voice to begin with. Like, this feels like the deepest where even when you hear her on the intercom and she's like, I'm upstairs. Oh my God.

1:29:50I just want to take a little look at you. She sounds like fucking Jigsaw. You want to play a game? She does kind of Jigsaw. She does a little. She has a light Jigsaw. You're right. She kind of teaches him a lesson. And it is like Saw in that it's like the sculptures there from the beginning. You have five minutes to give me a massage or else you end up inside papier-mâché.

1:30:11She's just so cool in this movie when she throws the keys with her mouth. Awesome. That's another like New York thing that there's not enough of that anymore. The old dropping the key out the window because I don't have like a fancy buzzer. Now it's a freaking fob. Nowadays, you're airdropping a door code. No, I was fishing in my bag for my keys the other day and another guy who lives in my building walked up, had his app open and he did that. Fuck that! And the door opened. Pissed me off. The door opened automatically when he...

1:30:41Yeah, he has the app to open the door. I was like, that's gross. What's the app called? Knob? Is it Castle? Yeah. Is it Castle? We use Castle to get into my... Castle? Yeah, to get into my office. Nathan Fillion's app? Yeah, it's Nathan Fillion. The show's not enough for him? Griffin, the app has an incredible amount of fun sexual chemistry with the cop and he's the author. Yeah. And that's all in the app. You know, the app is just buzzing with this kind of like, will they, won't they thing? It's like Bones, but he's more arrogant or something. I guess so.

1:31:12I just... I don't really... I never really watched Castle, but like in Bones, at least it's like, he's like, I work for the government. I'm like, I'm an FBI agent or whatever. Like, my job is to do this. And we need you anytime we find Bones. She's a Bones expert. And so the tension is there where he's like, this is really more my thing. And she's like, but the Bones, right? And he's like, ah! In Castle, it's what? It's just like, there's a crime and he's like, I read a book about a crime once. Like, she should just be like, shut the fuck up. Be quiet. He's a crime novelist. And it's like, he writes the best mysteries so he can solve them.

1:31:42Okay. It is... Okay. It's crazy that Nathan Fillion was like... We love him. ...king of the geeks. Oh, it's a shame he never became a movie star. You watch Firefly. He should have been Harrison Ford or whatever. And then he's just like 20 years of network television. Castle and the Rookie. The Rookie. Remember that? Ben started leaning in when we said Bones. David, what are you doing? Sorry. I just... I can't help but talk about Bones whenever it comes up. I get it. It's just so funny. Are you telling me? It's so funny. New York is overrun with Bones fever right now.

1:32:13There's so many bone crimes. You can feel it. Ben, Bones. Bones. Bones. After us. Okay, so... I'm so excited. Oh, I'm doing it now. Go on, everyone. Say it, say it, say it. Go on. I'm going to Prague later this year. There's a bone church. There is a bone church there. It's very cool. That's cool. I've always wanted to go to the catacombs, but I'm like, that's haunted. Go. I'm going to die. No, you'll be fine. Catacombs go. Just me. Yeah, go with someone who knows how to get out. Yeah, like Linda Fiorentino. Yeah. Oh, my God. Or Emily Deschanel. That's probably the better choice. Yes. Yes. And you can have some will-they-won't-they attention with her.

1:32:45Well, of course. She's great at that. Right. And you can deliver a pizza late, and she chews her gum really, like, an exaggerated way. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah. I'm not paying for that. That's what she says in Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man 2. Did the kids like Spider-Man 2? Yeah. Nowadays, they like... Are you talking about, like, the Tobey Maguire one? Yeah. Yeah, fuck yeah. The only Marvel movies I've seen are Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2. I was obsessed with them. Yeah. I was obsessed with them as a kid. I had a betta fish named Peter Parker. This is my sister as well, basically tapped out on all superhero movies after the Raimi trilogy.

1:33:17I got her to see No Way Home because I spoiled for her- Like Tobey's- Maguire's back. And that was the only thing in the world of superheroes that would possibly- That's the only thing that could get me back, too. Yeah. When he has the tray and he catches all the shit on it. Oh, God. He'd do be doing that. Chills thinking about that. Those movies are so good. They're a lot of fun. Yeah. And every year they get better. They do. This is the thing. The genre gets worse and the movies get better. Well, it's just like building up a callus. Yes. Like, they punch it with a new movie and he's like, I'm only stronger. Right? It's a martial artist who's broken all their fingers so that the punches are so fucking

1:33:47hard. So, okay. He exits this situation. He tries to take the subway. It's past midnight. The fare has gone up to 150. It just went up. It's so fucking funny. It's so good. So, that's when he ends up at the John Heard bar, which I want to have the location of that one, too. That is the Emerald Pub. Now closed. But it was on 308 Spring Street. Closed fairly recently? When did it close? What's there now? Yeah. I think it closed pretty recently because there's like a Yelp profile for it.

1:34:18I've been there. Yeah. What's there now? I think nothing. Oh, boy. Let's get something there. I stay walking on Spring Street. I mean, that's pretty close to like Eel Bar. I mean, sorry, not Eel Bar. Ear Inn. You know Ear Inn? Yes. I think so. That's one of the best like old school bars in New York. Oh, that place rules. That's a bar that still feels a little after hours-y. It doesn't feel violent. I go there all the time. If anyone wants to stalk me, I go there for lunch lock. That bar is like what he's looking for. Like in Paul's dreams, he finds Ear Inn and is able to just kind of fucking relax there

1:34:50for a bit. Okay. So, yeah, he ends up at the bar with John Hurt, who I think is so well cast because John Hurt does have... He's a little scary. Yeah, exactly. He has the kind of blue-collar-y energy of like, yeah, you know, I'm fucking Teddy. But right, he's just a little threatening. He was an intense guy. And he's like, well, yes. Yes. Yes. He was an intense guy. Yes. I think his reputation preceded him, too. That's in the dossier. A hundred percent. His career sort of, you know, he was one of the interesting young men leads. Like Marty was basically, when he was suggested, was like, he's talented, but isn't he like

1:35:23fucking crazy? It was less extreme than Eric Roberts, but a little bit parallel to that of like, this guy's good, but his life too short. Right. And he's already at this point now, like, maybe you have like three scenes. Right. And so... Maybe the movie isn't pinned on you. And then, of course, being Kevin's dad becomes weirdly the like reputation washing thing that everyone remembers him for. But apparently, Amy Robinson like went to him and was like, Marty wants you to do this movie, but he's worried about you. And Heard was like, I get it. He has nothing to worry about. And like... Got it. Okay. Right. Behaved himself.

1:35:54Mm-hmm. But he was just like an intense, angry dude. Yes. I mean... Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. And so what do we think of John Heard and so on and so forth in this movie After Hours that we're discussing today, guys? I mean, it's just the stuff in this movie that could be so overplayed, that is so elegantly done. And it does feel like this is the movie where Marty gets to flex a little Lubitsch stuff, who was obviously a big filmmaking hero of his. Sure. But just in the sort of timing and the elegant characterization, but the tightness of time

1:36:27between when John Heard makes a joke about someone committing suicide and then turning around and picking up the phone and getting the news that his girlfriend committed suicide and then having to reveal to Griffin Dunn accidentally that he is the boyfriend of Rosanne Arquette, like all of that folding in and all playing out across his face and being played totally straight. And it's so fucking funny. It's so funny because the comedy is all just in the pacing of it. Yeah. The sort of video gamey 80s vibe of like, I can't open the cash register without these

1:37:01keys. So I'm going to give you these keys that are going to get you into my apartment so you can get the other keys. It's just like there's no backups. No. Everything makes sense in this screenplay. Yeah. Even if it's this like ludicrous escalation of like he can't fucking, as you're saying, he could always just walk home. Yeah. Surely he could just walk home. But like, it's like, no. So you hold on to this so that I can take that. And so I have to come back and get that for me. You know, like it's a lot of like, well, Zelda. And there's been the burglaries lately. Right. He's a stranger in this building. And he floods the toilet. I think there's the other thing factored into it, which is there's the part of him that's

1:37:35like, I did come down here for Rosanna Arquette. I know I ran away. Yes. But if I leave without scoring. Do I need to score with someone else because I made the choice to leave my apartment at 11.30 p.m. Right. Or do I ultimately give her another shot? I simply would never do it. If someone asked me to leave my apartment at 11.30, absolutely. I'd be laughing. I love being home so much. Oh, I'm such a night owl. I would do that. Now? Even now? Yeah. What are you doing? At 11.30, I'm going to text you.

1:38:07What are you doing at 11.30? Going out and getting into trouble. Oh, yeah. No, I love when she's like, you want to go get a cup of coffee? And he's like, is anything open right now? It's like 12.31. He's such a loser. The great Dick Miller. The great Dick Miller. At the bar. Sorry, at the diner, which is, I want to look that one up too. The River Diner, which is gone, but it's like an old school classic, like rail car kind of diner. I bet it's a TikTok house now.

1:38:33They got those fucking croissants there. Oh, my God. The Sucksants. The what? They suck. Oh. You said those croissants suck. So now I've decided that's their trendy name. The Sucksants. You got to try this shitty croissant. It sucks so hard. We're workshopping that. Right. That actually wasn't in Soho, the River Diner. That was up by like kind of with the Javits, you know, like over by the water in the 30s or whatever. They used to call it. It called it like Diner Alley. There used to be so many of those kinds of diners over there. I assume for the, you know, guys who worked the ships or whatever.

1:39:04I don't know. It was 37th and 11th Avenue. Yeah. That was a cool part of town. It's one of those diners. Hell. I don't know what you're talking about. I know your favorite neighborhood in New York is the Hudson Yards. I love Hudson Yards and Hull's Kitchen. You love to go to the Vessel. Yeah. My favorite neighborhood is the basement of the Javits Center. Right. You love the Javits Center. That's where your favorite place to eat, your favorite place to hang out and party. Yes. Yes. I went out to dinner at 9 p.m. last night. I want to brag. Where? Burger King. Oh, oh, oh.

1:39:35You know Bartolo? Yeah. What'd you get? Oh, well, we got, you want to hear? Okay. Got these mushroom things. We got the anchovies that are on like the piece of toast with like a full rectangle of butter underneath them. Who'd you go with? Ellen and Rachel. Well, well, well. Well, well, well. Must be nice. We got these like cod fritters. We got this like pea salad. We got a big old lamb rack of lamb. Wow. David, what are you doing? I'm sorry. Sorry. That was amazing. The record show. I just, I just want, I want people to see.

1:40:06I'm keeping things on rails today. I was done with dinner at 11. It's not just me. We're seeing in real time. It's not just me. I was done with dinner at 11. Congratulations. And I was like, oh my God, this is so late. The idea that after that I would go out, like that I would be like, all right, time for me to begin my night. I would, I would die. This is a genuine humble brag, but any time it's not like it happens every week, but occasionally someone will invite me to an SNL after party. And I'm like, that sounds like a fucking nightmare. Horrifying.

1:40:36You mean I can't get there until 1am? I'm going to be awake, but I'm going to be awake in bed watching the Larry Sanders show. That's my night. I went to SNL. Wow. On the weekend. Brag, brag, brag. Brag. In 2023 on the weekend, it was the same time as Daylight Saving. So not only did I get home at like 6am, but it was like 7 now. It's horrible. I've never felt worse in my life. It's terrible. Yeah. Anyway. I, that does seem crazy to me. Yeah. I mean, even watching SNL in my house when it's done, I'd be like, I'm tired.

1:41:08I'm too late. So tired. Yeah. Uh, so, okay.

The Escalating Nightmare in Soho

1:41:11What, all right. What happens? Uh, she, he, he, he goes back to like, he confronts the thieves stealing the, um, he gets kicked out of the TV. He goes to herd's apartment. He floods it. He gets kicked out by the suspicious neighbors. Right. He ends up at Kiki's and the Cheech and Chong are stealing the sculpture. He chases them off. And that's when he then comes across Roseanne Arquette dead. Yes. A move that should stop this movie in its tracks. Absolutely. Right. That is so insanely dark. It should be too dark. Right.

1:41:42And either the movie will falter because it can never recover from how upsetting that is. Right. Or because it's too flippant about it. It just turns it into like weightless, ridiculous. Exactly. Right. Yeah. And instead you're just like, that is, to me at least, that is the proper escalation of the nightmare this guy is in. Yes. Where it's like every social interaction is going wrong in weird ways. He's becoming an enemy of people kind of by mistake. Also. And then it's like, oh, and by the way, the girl you wanted to hook up with, she is dead and you were the last person who saw her.

1:42:12And the guy with the leather is like, like, are you the guy? Like, that's fucked up what you did. Like, I heard all about it. We've been talking about you. You're a real asshole. Like, if you're in a nightmare, like, it's just what you, right? Like, you imagine this would happen to you. But it's also, it's once again, it's the 80s relationship between sex and death. You know? Sure. It happens in this accelerated way and he obviously never even sleeps with her. To me, it's more like sex, the relationship, it's like sex and high fives. High five. That's what you want, ideally. That's your closer?

1:42:43Uh, yeah. You know, when you have sex and then you high five after. Yeah. Fucking awesome. No, no. I think that's a great call. Like, yeah, it's the 80s. Like, no longer are we in a free love era. It's more just like, oh, you're horny? You might, like, end up dead. Yes. Or at least might end up with a dead body on your hands and, like, no subway fare. Yeah. No, I think these are, like, very deliberate lines this movie's drawing. What other ways? I'm trying to think of other ways to escape Soho for him, apart from just walking. There are so many trains down there. That is so true. There are so many trains. Like, you gotta be able to hop one turnstile somewhere in Lower Manhattan.

1:43:14But it's like this dream state of, like, no. There's just a force field. It's also, it's what's good about that scene is you buy that he wouldn't try it again because the timing is so catastrophically bad. It's too embarrassing. Happened to me all the way here, by the way. You tried to hop a turnstile? No, I got to the train right as it was, like, the doors were closing. And then I had to wait 17 minutes for a Brooklyn Bound train. Wait, what? Which train? The F? I had a 23 the other day. I had a 30. I couldn't believe it. 30? Yeah. A dirty 30?

1:43:44F at, I don't even, it was, like, midday. Illegal. Oh, that's fucked up. Come on. It was, like, prime hours. Zoran, come on. I fucking, the other night, trying to get home from Manhattan. Manhattan. After our screening. We saw Disclosure Day. Whoa. But we can't disclose it yet. Did you like it? Oh, no. We'll have seen it already. It fucking rocks. It fucking, it is awesome. Yeah. Yeah. It's so good. So tender. Yeah. How long is it? How long is it? Two hours 20. Gorgeous. Yeah. Yeah. Feels robust.

1:44:14220 is the longest a movie can be, in my mind. Like, three hours feels shorter than 220, but I think for a movie like that, I want it to be 220. It's not overstaying. No. It moves pretty, I don't know. Ben was a little shiftier than me, maybe. I can't remember. No, I like Alien. Alien, good. Sure. But, uh, I live off the G train, wasn't running, had to walk home from the seven. How long did that take? 20 minutes. Yeah. What the fuck? But you'll have moved by the time this episode comes out. God willing. Let's all dox ourselves at the end of this. Yeah. Let's all say our subway stops right now. Right. Three, two, one.

1:44:46Mount Kisco. He's Broadway. It's a great stop. Actually, in a nightmare. Actually, a nightmare stop. It's actually the worst place on earth. Yeah. I mean, I... Well, trying to transfer to the one at 14th made me want to die. Don't do that. Can't even talk about... That is after hours. Never do that. That's where after hours happens there. Transfer from L to 1. Yeah. That walk sucks. The tunnel. It's so fucking long. Yeah. Well, because you're going from 6th to 7th Avenue. I heard Richard Bachman got inspiration from doing that walk, if you catch my drift. It's a... The novel's called The Long Walk. It sucks.

1:45:16People die. Mark Hamill overacts. A lot of diarrhea. Goddamn. So, Horst and Linda Florentine leave to go to Berlin. Yeah. Yes. They leave a note. He's discovered the body. So, what does he do? He calls 911, and then he puts up his own signs. He puts up six signs with arrows pointing to dead body. It's so fucked up, but funny. It's really funny. Yeah. But it's also one of these things where it's like, he's not responsible. He's not discovered with the body,

1:45:46but he also knows that they saw him there. This is clearly a troubled person, but this is where you just start the hell spiral in the movie, where everything after this point starts to feel hallucinatory because he just can't even imagine, like, is this my last night as a free man? How does this catch up to me? This is the perfect movie for someone who walks around thinking everyone's mad at them all the time. Like, this is... Good take. Are you mad at me, cinema? Yes. It's perfect. Right. Are you dead at me? Yeah. Yeah. Don't die on me, please. That's the meanest thing you could do is die next to me.

1:46:17Am I about to kill you? Yeah. Right. So good. Club Berlin real, right? Or no? Oh, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. There's that bar Berlin. There is. Yeah. But that's a different place, right? Yeah. Maybe it's made up. I don't know. I was wondering that. It looked out of place. It does. It didn't look like anywhere in Lower Manhattan. Yeah. I like that you need a mohawk to get in there, basically. Really good. Yeah. Ben, would you shave your head into a mohawk? I never did. I never did in my punk days. You got a little Tintin flip going on today, which is kind of...

1:46:48It's Belgian punk. Now it's going down. But earlier, you had it a little flipped. Did you ever go to Warped Tour? Uh, no. Wow. Okay. No. Okay. I missed out. Yeah, same. Never? No. I was like 10. Okay. Is this still happening? We all were. Yeah, we were six years old. Returned in 2025 for its 30th anniversary, but I think that may have been a one-off. Oh, no. It's coming back. You should go. I don't know if that's my scene.

1:47:20Orlando? You don't want to be in Orlando? I love Orlando.

1:47:29Yeah, this is when Catherine O'Hara enters, right? No, the girl with the beehive. Yeah. Terry Gar. He goes the second time. We did it out of order because he... I think we've done it out of order. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She dies, and then he goes to get his keys, and then that's when the guy finds out that his ex-girlfriend died, and that's how he finds out that he just killed... Right. ...who didn't kill. Yeah. That's who that is. But, uh... Right? No, but isn't... Doesn't he first have Catherine O'Hara, and then he tries to get into Club Berlin?

1:48:03No, because he meets Catherine O'Hara after... There's sort of two Catherine O'Hara chunks, right? Yes. He's with her, and then he comes back to her. Griffin? Yes. What are you doing? Are you trying to find this? No, I ordered the bagel paperweight. For all your papers? Yeah. I'm gonna get some. Yeah, he goes to Berlin, gets his head shaved. Marty's there. Marty's there. Martin Scorsese, as the searchlight operator. And then... No, I'm just... I just... I love him on camera.

1:48:34Oh, yeah. It's great. He gets... He tries to hail the same cab... Right. Right. ...from the beginning of the movie... ...that he was unable to pay. And he's like, look, I got the $20 now. Right. And the guy's like, yeah, you owe me $20. You got $0. And Catherine O'Hara opens the door really quickly, hits him in his arm. He's got a bloody arm. She offers to bandage it up. We should call out, right? She's the woman getting out of the cab, but we should call out... You mentioned Dick Miller, but he's the second kindly... The nice diner waiter.

1:49:04...who introduces the title of the film. After hours. Which is... He's right. He's like, this time of night... Yeah. You're in a parallel world. It feels so good when he says it. You're after hours. And it's just... What a punim he's got. You know, him just basically looking right down the camera and delivering the thesis of the movie. You're just like, do that in every movie. David, we do Dante. You're going to get that every fucking week. That's not when he enters, though. After Catherine. No, because he's earlier. He's with Rosanna. He's with Rosanna. She's talking about her husband loving the Wizard of Oz. I just wanted to make that connection.

1:49:34Yes, yes, yes. Because also, he introduces the title. He gives her the $20. Is it that he would say Serena Dorothy after he came? Would that be a deal-breaker for you? No. Whatever. I think after a while, I'd be like, every time? Every time? It's getting annoying. Yeah. I'd rather they do the... I'd rather they do Shoe the Dog. From Wicked? Yeah. Okay. Oh, wow. Yeah? Yeah. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh, oh. Ben, you want to try one?

1:50:05Oh. I just need them to wear like a printout of Hot Scarecrow's face. Oh, what a good face. Talking about good skin on film. Just give me that kind of hay face. Give me that hay. Right. Yeah, I mean, the only hotter man is Bach. Metal Bach. Tin Bach? Oh, yeah. Right. Tin Man Bach. Yeah. Tin, Tin. Yeah. Tin Bach. Yeah, what a good movie. Tin Bach. Wow. Did you see The Wicked? I have... I saw Wicked 1. Yeah. And I said, that's enough. All right. That's called making the right call. Yeah. That's called protecting yourself.

1:50:36Yeah. That's called... Yep. That's just smart, smart, smart. Yep. Because my reaction after Wicked 2, as Griffin can tell everyone, was, well, we had Wicked 1. You know, we all had Wicked 1. I watched Wicked 1, and I was like, if there are generously two good songs in this, I don't think 2 needs to be part of my journey. Yes. No. And it never will be. All love to the cast. They're very talented. But truly movies that are already forgotten because of how bad 2 was, I feel. Kind of. You know what I mean? Came and went. If 2 had, like, somehow nailed the landing, people would be like, man, Wicked, remember that?

1:51:06Like, blew up the box office. And Ariana, like, got COVID during the press tour. It was just, like, weird. Cursed vibes. What's Ariana doing? She just released a song. Fucker-in-law. Yeah. That's right. I was like, I know she's in a movie this year. She has a new song out today. Going to the front of the family. What's your song about? Um, I don't know what it's called. I haven't looked yet. It's called Kate That I Made You Love Me. Hmm. Okay. So Catherine O'Hara drives an ice cream truck. She offers to give him a ride. I mean, who's cooler than her? She drives an ice cream truck.

1:51:37That's awesome. Yeah. I love that. It is cool. I mean, I'm still, like, Fiorentino's the number one lady I'm chasing in this movie. Too scary. But she'll kill me. Too scary. I'll be dead. Yes. That's, like, one of those, like, spiders that eats the man after. Catherine O'Hara has access to nearly unlimited ice cream. She looks awesome. She's got a strong moral code. Now, I will say. She's good at arts and crafts. She makes a flyer. She has a whistle. Right. It would piss me off if she did the thing where she said numbers while I was trying to write down her phone number. That's so fucking funny. That's very triggering and annoying. That is as much of a Griff bit as I have ever seen committed to film.

1:52:11It's so annoying. In the movie, you're just like, even in the movie, even though you're annoyed with Griff and you're like, shut the fuck up. Stop it. I would never do a bit that annoying, but I respect the craft of it. It's an incredibly. I would do it on a stranger. It's so funny. It's so funny that he, the first time he's like, I do have to admit that's clever. That's funny. Okay. But now for real, here I go dialing the phone and then she does it again. And of course, sadly, no one knows anyone's number anymore because that's just not part of life. Yeah. No. Yeah.

1:52:41I just need to correct you. Catherine O'Hara's character doesn't make the flyer. Oh, Terry Gard makes the flyer. Terry Gard makes the flyer. The woman with the like kind of 60s like beehive. Yeah. But Catherine O'Hara does end up posting them as well. She's the flyer. Everyone's posting the flyer. Oh, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right. Again, it kind of contributes to this feeling of like Soho is this kind of force field and like locked box. They all know each other. They all know each other. They're all spreading stories around each other. Yeah. They all play a very specific role. She has like unlimited access to a printing.

1:53:12Right. Like that's open all night. Yeah. She's just not going to. It's like he's intruded on some like medieval village. It's like children at the corner. He like stepped on some like statue and it's broken. Now they're all basically like, are you the one who broke the statue? Like you have the curse. It's also such a good move. It's such like a simple, deceptively simple, elegant thing. But on both car rides, him going down in the cab and going back up in the back of Cheech and Chong's van, the thing of the kind of like whip pan street signs.

1:53:47Yeah. The feeling of what it does feel like not to be a bunch of fucking New York people in a room talking about New York. But when you just take a cab and you're zooming down or up one avenue in Manhattan, you're hitting the lights and it feels like you're going so far and you're like, we've gone 20 blocks. It's not. This is a very compact city. Right. But yet sometimes you're like, oh, my God, that neighborhood's so far away. And you're like, nothing's like more than an hour away. True. Yeah. I went to Brighton Beach yesterday for lunch on the beach train.

1:54:19I was there in 10 minutes. Just explain to us that you haven't been to the beach yet this year. Well, I didn't get to like actually touch the beach. Did you go to Anora's house? I did not go to Anora's house. You fucked with the camera. Did you guys hang out? The really cool, like, you know, giant Russian mobster house. No, I didn't go there. I went to Arandazzo's Clan Park, the greatest, if anyone knows it. No? Okay. Well, it was awesome. So he's being chased by a mob and he, it's the moment then that you started the episode off with where he's like screaming to the heavens.

1:54:52He's, he's really, he's right. He's asking for celestial intervention. And they've like become like the villagers from Frankenstein. Yes. Right. That's what I'm saying. It's like truly like a pissed off village. Yes. So then he goes. He gets into Berlin, which is now like empty. Well, no, I was going to say, actually, he has the interaction with the guy who's cruising. Right. Right. And he ends up just weirdly asking him to go, like, can I go to your apartment? He's looking for safety. Just need shelter. And I think he's also like, every time I follow a woman home, things get complicated.

1:55:22Right. Can I just find a boring guy? And this guy thinks that he's a gigolo. But it does one of my favorite things, which is when someone's telling a really long story and they keep cutting just at different moments. He does it so elegantly, too, where at first you think your brain is like fucking up. Yeah. It's like this very, very subtle kind of like audio crossfade. Yeah. It's also one of the beautiful moments, like one of the beautiful examples of telling someone

1:55:52a story that you think is so crazy and like your life has been just so overwhelming and they're just staring at you blankly because it like truly doesn't matter at all. This is boring and all I'm thinking about is, do I want to have sex with you or not? I don't care about your life. Right. Yeah. He gets to Berlin. I personally would go home and fuck the guy. That's what you would do. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. Like, you know, it's just maybe that is the reason. But are you even in the mood at that point? Well, that's a good question. I'm probably just need to take a nap. But then. It's what? 4 a.m. now? Could you maybe like find a sex worker who does naps?

1:56:24Where you're just kind of like, hey. Does naps? Yeah. Let's unpack this date. I just need to take a nap. Like, hey, can you tuck me in? Right. Like, do you have a space where I could just like, we don't need to do anything. I just need a nap. So you're looking for a landlord. What is the sex worker for? Well, they might have a space you could use. You know, like a bed. Like a hotel. Right. Right. You know. Yeah. An area. But I'm just like, hey, would love to hang out. Just nap, though. Nap. Nap only. Just naps. Right. The great Verna Bloom, who was responsible, partially responsible, we talked about in the

1:56:55Mean Streets episode, right? For getting Mean Streets made. Yes. She obviously was married to Jay Cox, the, and still married to him. Yeah. Well, she died, but, you know, was married to him her entire life. Was also married to Dean Wormser, who placed Delta House on double secret probation. Richard Collier? Is that what you're talking about? She has a very similar role in Animal House. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. As, yes, the world's sexiest older lady to dumb young guys. She, I feel like, like, kind of stopped acting, right?

1:57:26After Animal House. Like, she's only in two movies in between Animal House and this. What movies? What are the two? Yeah. The Clint Eastwood film Honky Tonk Man, one of his most forgotten movies, but a pretty good one. I've not seen that. Which is sort of the start of Clint being like, what the fuck? I had no idea. I think that was, I think that was, no, you know what that was? That was my alert that I can't eat anymore because I'm getting a fucking dental implant put in today. Oh. That's why I don't accidentally put anything in my mouth. When's it happening?

1:57:56It's happening, uh, oh no, you know what? That alert was I have 15 minutes before I can stop drinking liquid. Dang. Yeah, it's happening in like two and a half hours. Okay, okay. Just making sure you're not. Are you going under? I think I'm going to be what my father calls the Conrad Murray. Kind of in and out? That's the Michael Jackson. Right, Michael Jackson. But he goes, he goes, uh, doctor's appointment, they're going to do the, uh, Dr. Conrad Murray to you? This is how my father talks. Love that. Uh, he, she's also in a film called The Journey of Natty Genn, which is like a Disney adventure

1:58:27movie. Uh, she has a tiny role in that. She plays Mary in Last Temptation, obviously. Is it live action? It is. And that's her last movie. Last Temptation, in which she plays, uh, Jesus's mom, Mary. Heard of her? The original badass mama. Um, and then, right. The original, uh, virgin influencer. Her only credit after that is a fucking Animal House special feature where everyone reprised their characters and did a where are they now thing. Right. So, basically, these are her last two films. But she's so goddamn, I mean, this, like, it's just what the movie needs.

1:59:00Yes. Like, after all this pressure and madness, just to, like, dance to Is That All There Is? Just the, the total. So good. Kind of, like, meditative, weird, still dreamy. And Marty hasn't been doing the needle drops as much in this film. True. It feels big to have, you know, the score's very heavy in this film. Howard Shore. I love the score. A wonderful score. I really love Shore's collaborations with Marty because I feel like, you know, and we've talked about this with Howard Shore a little bit, like, before he became the Lord of the Rings guy. I mean. He was the weird, you know, atonal music guy, the Cronenberg and Marty and stuff.

1:59:33If you just go highlights of his career, he was the original music director on Saturday Night Live. Right. Really? He becomes David Cronenberg and Martin Scorsese's go-to guys and then soundtracks the Lord of the Rings films. It's, it's, it's so wild. What's wild is that Jackson tapped him. Yes. That Jackson was like, I think you have that in you. Because Jackson comes from a kind of Cronenberg-y space originally. Right. But I remember reading live from New York and being like, that's funny that there's another guy in music named Howard Shore. Surely that can't be the same person.

2:00:06He's a king. No, the score's so good. But yes, okay. Is that all there is? It's great. David. What? The voice of a songwriter. I sure don't. I'm crying right now. I didn't know. I cannot hold a tune. How do you guys feel about chain link fence in the room here? No. It's just like, okay. I don't care for a chain link fence. Why? Are you trying to get into chain link fences, Ben? Because they're, they're chain adjacent. Oh no. It's a good look. Wait a second. Yes. I think it's sort of famously considered not a good look. David, I just noticed our closet doors open and there's a bunch of chain link in there.

2:00:41Ben bought big. Chain link fences are kind of like, hey, do you want your kind of, maybe your yard to look a little threatening, but also for it to possibly, it would hurt you if you touched it? Like chain link fences. What if we found out that Ben was asking us because he like bought chain link futures?

2:00:58He was like, coffee's going down, chain links going up. I mean, yeah, we're heading towards a police state. So. This is true. I was going to say, I don't like outdoor things indoors. And then I remember we're recording in a studio with a porch inside. Can we call out? Yeah. Soon to be guests next week's episode, Chris Ryan. Right. When before the episode, we always try to take the photo before the episode so we don't forget. Sure. Because this episode, the podcast is usually really short and people leave bright eyed, bushy tailed, full of energy. When we wrap up, we're like, let's hang out a little longer.

2:01:29And we definitely don't look like we just got hit in the face. Truly. We had a friend come visit at the end of a record the other day and I had to apologize for it. It's like he walked into a room where four men had just had exorcisms. He was. And I hadn't seen Sam in a while. Yeah. The great Sam Rogal. Yeah. Like I wasn't. I wasn't like Sam. I was just like, Sam. It's nice to see you. I don't know. I don't know what words are anymore. But Chris Ryan, we were like, we got to take the picture. And he was like, oh, OK, so we have to go outside. And we were like, that's what I thought, too. I was saying that. Wait, really?

2:02:00That's the porch? Oh, shit. Ben's always in his head about the effectiveness of the porch. And everyone's buying that it's real. No, I was like, what? Are they like taking the train somewhere? Like going on a trip after they record? It would be so funny if I hadn't told you that. Like a beach check? Like you had beached it. Yeah, we're going to the beach. Like they like got Rockaway. Maybe Blank Check does need a beach check. Make a day of it. Maybe that's our next move. Blank Check Beach check. I'm down. Blank Check Beach check. Blank Check Beach check. That would be fire.

2:02:30Thank you. For the pod. And this is a fire pod. Yeah. As you already said. Yeah. It would be Iron Chef. OK, so he's in Club Berlin. They have a dance. And they come to find him. They come to find him. And so she does the only thing you can do. Covers him in plaster and paris. You got to paper mache his ass. Do you remember how just everyone was getting slimed in the 90s? Of course. That was just a huge part of the 90s. It was an epidemic. And that's another thing, by the way, this movie is about the AIDS panic and it's about the slime panic. But I mean, it's like, that's how we used to confront adults and make them pay for their

2:03:01sin. Dump slime on them. Well, they would try to tell us that we couldn't do that on television. Right. And we would say, I'm actually going to slime your ass. We would say, it's slime time. Right. Yes. And then we would prove that we had guts by climbing the aggro crag. What else did we do? Our biggest movie stars would make a peace offering, say, I will be in family comedies. I'm willing to appeal to you, the children of America. And we'd go, OK, how about eat slime? Slime time. They should bring slime to the Oscars. Oh, that'd be a good idea. Like the winner gets the Oscar and the other four nominees are slammed in their seats. Claire has been doing a great job. But what if Rosie O'Donnell hosts the Oscars and everyone gets slimed?

2:03:35Was she at the forefront of sliming for when she was? I remember I didn't live in America at the time. She was like the Billy Crystal of the kids. Yeah, speak on this. You never talk about that. Allie, don't you think you can walk into my house? She was pretty inextricably tied to sliming because she was often adjacent to the biggest slimes of the year. Right. Right, right, right. But was she like pushing the plunger? Sometimes. Didn't mix it up. Didn't mix it up. What's the Double Dare guy's name? Mark Summers? Yeah, him. He was. Did slime cross the pond? Like, were you aware of slime? Yeah, there was some sliming. But I do. What do they call it there?

2:04:06Goo. Goo. Custard. You got a bit of goo on you. They call it goo with a U. Now, this is actually an interesting question because I do think it was more American, but it was a little bit of sliming, I think. Yeah. But it was so what I thought of with like an American game show in the 90s or whatever. In England, they just throw like blood pudding at someone. Blood pudding. Oh, God. That's delicious.

2:04:30Yeah, where's the U? B-L-O-U-D. Blood pudding. B-O-D-D-I-N-G. Poding.

The Climax and Final Resolution

2:04:41Poding. Okay, so he has slimed. He has to hide. Yeah. Right? He's plastered up. He's turned into a statue. And then Cheech and Chong steal him. He goes back uptown and they throw him out the fucking back of a van. The first time you see this movie and that's unfolding. Because, you know, is that all there is is the end of the movie? Kind of. Emotionally. Emotionally. Right. It's like he's tired of younger women and he's sort of like, do I need a mama? Yeah. Instead. And she's like, sure, baby. Come here. Anyway, now you're a statue. Right. You know, I feel like there's so many readings. Anyone could like anyone could kind of just like academically take a swing at this movie

2:05:15and put almost any reading on it. It's got so much heavy symbolism. Yeah. You could really have your fun with it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I was I was going through some like queer readings because I was curious if other people have written about this kind of AIDS panic thing. And I do think it's a little pointed that the end of this movie is being like and you get safely returned to your high paying job. Yeah. And you don't have to deal with this shit anymore. Yeah. These people live in this world and you don't. That was a dalliance for you. It was a night that was scary. And now you're just back in its daylight. You're in the MetLife building.

2:05:46Those beautiful fucking gates. And the robbers get away too. They do. They do. Cheech and Chong. They're unkillable. To have been the one stealing everything. Yeah. They're up in spot. It's Mozart, not Beethoven is the music, by the way. Oh, sure. 18 major. Yeah. Sorry. I'm embarrassed.

2:06:02But at the same time. You should also shout out Bad Brains, that hardcore, that's the punk band that's playing at Niagara, the song, Hey to Come. There you go. I just. Surrender, Dorothy. I love this movie so much. And it's what we were saying. I can't come unless there's a shark biting my dick. Another After Hours. That's why you married Bruce the shark. That would be a good tramp stamp. Yeah. Right. I'll get that. I'll get the shark. I'm just going to get it put on my body like a sash. It'll go diagonally down. Ali, you said tramp stamp and David started gesturing towards the back of his shoulders.

2:06:36I was like, but then I went. It can mean anything to anyone. Yeah.

2:06:42I also, I think it's, you know, what you, I agree with what you said, Griffin, but there is, it is also the thing of like, you're now, that was your moment of fun and freedom. Not fun, you know, but like you experienced a more exciting world. You're back in the mousetrap. You don't want it. Yeah, exactly. Right. But also, you're running the rat race. These are the people who start to erase those things from New York. Like, look around you. Rowan Atkinson is there. John Cleese. You're in the rat race. Oh. Cuba Gooding Jr. Breckin Meyer. You want to have something? Whoopee. You want to have something interesting?

2:07:12Malibu's Most Wanted? Is he in that one? I don't think so. Wait. Wait. No, he's not in rat race. Jamie Kennedy. Cheech is in, who are you saying is in Malibu? Jamie Kennedy. Jamie Kennedy. He's saying Jamie Kennedy is in rat race. Oh, Jamie Kennedy is not in rat race. Who's the other guy? It's Breckin Meyer, and the other guy's name is like Vince Volouf. That's right. That's right. This is the thing I was going to tell you, because it's similar to like Cheech and Chong being in this movie, that Cheech and Chong could be ported over as a comedy duo to things outside of their series. Yeah. So that duo is Seth Green as the like scheming, matter mouth, motor mouth, and then Vince

2:07:47Volouf is his brother who just had a tongue piercing and he can't talk because his tongue is swollen. I talk like this. Right. Yeah. Because it's all swollen. Our buddy, friend of the show, past and future guest, Kevin Smith, recently revealed on a podcast that that was written for Jay and Silent Bob. Oh. That it was straight offered to them that in the sort of- And that would be why Silent Bob can't talk. Yes. Yeah. Well, in the Mad Mad World construction of the movie, they were like, do we port over people's personas? Do we need a pre-existing comedy duo? Yeah. Right. And so it was written to literally be the two of them doing that.

2:08:18And obviously Bob was going to be silent. And then when they changed it, they were like, what's the reason that one of the brothers wouldn't talk? Oh, sure. Fascinating to consider. Yeah. Have you seen Rat Race? That's not one to be embarrassed about. It's the second best movie to use Smash Mouth's All-Star in the year 2001. That's right. That's right. Big year for Smash Mouth. Huge year for them. Of course, Shrek. Right. I'm familiar. Because in 99, it's in Inspector Gadget and Mystery Man. 2000, they take a year off.

2:08:48Yeah. 2001, it's in Shrek and it's in Rat Race. I love the Japanese poster of Rat Race where they have an extra picture of Rowan Atkinson to really underline like, FYI, Mr. Bean in this one. Double be. Yes. Yes. Okay. So, this film was released on just one screen on September 13th, 1985. Expanded, you know, slowly enough. Made it up to like ninth place. It grossed $10 million, so it's double the budget. But, you know, was not the breakout hit they hoped for.

2:09:20They thought it was going to be a crazy indie breakout rather than a solid little indie success. Ebert loved it. Called it the work of a master filmmaker. Four stars right out the gate. Yes. Beautiful. Pauline Kael was like, I'm super chill and I think everything's fine. Just kidding. She was really, really insane about this movie. She's in her late 80s, 1980s, kind of like crazy mode. I would say Pauline Kael gets really, really sort of persnickety in her later years. But, uh, she really, um, hates it. Good.

2:09:51Uh, it plays in competition at Cannes.

2:09:55Apparently, Gaddafi that year, Libyan leader, Gaddafi, had threatened to blow up Cannes. Oh, okay, that's the opposite of winning the Palme d'Or. I did not win the Palme d'Or. Uh, no. So, Marty didn't go. Uh-huh. Wow. Uh, only Dunn and Michael Ballhaus went. And apparently, Sylvester Stallone didn't go. And so, the French press called Griffin Dunn the bravest American because he was the only American actor who went. Uh, the Palme d'Or went to The Mission, one of the worst Palme d'Or winners, in my opinion.

2:10:25Uh, not a very good movie. Uh, forgot to mention. Very pretty. One of the best techniques that Scorsese used in this movie. Marty won Best Direct. Is that he had a box full of, uh, uh, shattered glass. Okay. That he would have a PA hold. Yeah, Hayden Christensen. Baby Hayden Christensen was in a basket. Uh, no, he had a box full of shattered glass pieces. And he had, like, a PA would stand next to him. And at certain times, he'd, like, point. And the kid would drop the glass to try to get a natural reaction out of Griffin Dunn. And he'd be like, don't, stay straight, you know?

2:10:59But then he would just do this loud disorienting noise. You can see it very much in a moment where he walks into the Werner Blum, the emptied out Berlin at the end. But there's all these things.

Box Office and Cultural Context

2:11:09We mentioned the, the sex strike, the vow of celibacy that was forced on him. There's also, like, a lot of making him, like, run around the block. You know, he would, I think the same thing happens walking into Berlin where it's like, on action, you run around the block, the camera's gonna be rolling, and the scene doesn't start until you've done the entire circumference and entered into the frame. Um, he just did a lot of stuff to, like, throw him off. Yeah. Because, you know, it's like, don't play comedy stressed. How do I actually create a little bit, uh, a sense of true mania and disorientation in this guy?

2:11:44He's usually very smooth. It's like in that part of Boogie Nights where they're lighting off the, Yeah. The fireworks. The heart crackers. Yeah. It's making everyone. It's also like that part in Boogie Nights where the penis is really large. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This film came out September 15th, 13th, 1985, Griffin. Never forget. So, you know, whatever. Number one in the box office biggest movie, 85. We've covered it on the podcast. Uh, it would be Beverly Hills Cop? Nope. 84. Fuck. It was a late 84 release of December, 84 and 85. The biggest film which we covered.

2:12:15Mm-hmm. Sci-fi. Is a sci-fi movie. It's a sci-fi adventure, sort of? Yeah. Huh. Yeah, what do you want from me? Is it Spielberg? No. 86 is Aliens. True. 80, true lies is Cameron. That's also 1994, so. Yeah. Um, it's not Spielberg and it's not Lucas. No. But it's one of their pals. It's one of their pals who we covered. In the pandemic. Heard of it? In the pandemic.

2:12:46It's called Back to the Future. Back to the Future. Back to the Future. So it's been out for like two, three months at this point? Yep. What's it up to? 145 mil. That's great. It's going to get to 250? 260? I know. It's going to go 225. Pretty high. Pretty high for way back in the day. Yep. Number two at the box office is another film starring the star of Back to the Future. It's called Teen Wolf. Right. He shot it first. It got the box office. Michael J. Fox is one and two.

2:13:16Yeah. At the box office. He was the king for a little bit. He's a good actor. And I think he wins the Emmy this year as well. For what? For Family Ties. But they were like, you're a movie star. You finally get to win the Emmy. Right. Yeah. That's a reverse McConaughey. It happened to Helen Hunt. Sort of happened to McConaughey though. I know what you mean. He won for True Detective. True Detective. He should have won for True Detective. Who beat him? But he won. Oh, you're right. No, he won the Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club. Exactly. Of course, I saw him on my first date with your wife. Like two months after True Detective premiere. Yeah. But Helen Hunt, I think, wins for Mad About You the year they give her the Oscar and a similar

2:13:48kind of like. She won a lot of Emmys. Yes. And deserve them all. Yeah. And she also won my award for Hottest Lady. Mm-hmm. Dallas Buyers Club, I saw him on my first date with my wife. Wow. I love to bring that up. It's the funniest. That is a heavy first. No, if you're looking for a hot tip. As I've said it before, but first scene, he's having wild, unprotected sex. Second scene, you have AIDS. Look, if you want to get married, all you do is find the person who lights up your heart and take them to one of those countless rep screenings of Dallas Buyers Club.

2:14:19Dallas Buyers Club. It's playing at the Roxy every other night. It'd be a great double feature with After Hours. This is true. So who beat McConaughey? For the Emmy? Yeah. Because I do remember him losing because True Detective hype got so crazy that I feel like there was a mild backlash. They also, they ran it in miniseries. But it was so deserved. He's so fucking good in True Detective. He's the best. They ran it in miniseries, right? I believe so. No, I don't think. No? I don't think. No, they didn't. They ran it in drama series. That was their mistake. Because that was season one. I don't think they knew it would be anthology. Who'd they run? Who beat them?

2:14:49Bryan Cranston and Breaking Bad. That was a really good year. Probably for like the third or fourth time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a really good year. Jeff Daniels is nominated for the newsroom. Yeah. You know?

2:15:01This is a good year. Classic. And Jon Hamm. He's very good in Dallas Buyers Club, but he absolutely won the Oscar for Dallas Buyers Club and True Detective coming out so close together. And Interstellar came out that year, too. Yeah, which is his actual best performance. For my money, that's his best performance ever. Number three at the box office is a film we discussed on this very episode directed by a guy who is considered for directing this film. It's called Pee-wee's Big Adventure. That's correct. I know. So it's in the box office. That was three at the box office.

2:15:32Number three, it's been out for quite a while. It has made 40, yeah, it's made 30 on its way to $40 million. Yeah. Yeah. It's doing well. Number four at the box office is a drama, sort of like a, this is a film I don't know. Okay. Like a sort of true crime-y kind of drama. It's based on a novel. It's a true crime. So not true crime, but like kind of like a- Gone girl. It's kind of gone girly, it sounds like. It's about a Long Island housewife and former journalist who becomes involved in a murder investigation. It's not like The Morning After.

2:16:03No. That movie's all right. Like that? Yeah, sure. Does it have that kind of vibe? Is it like two stars? Yeah. I, it's one big star. Okay. And one of my favorite actors. I've never seen it. I've never really heard of it. It's from director Frank Perry. It's one of my favorite actors. Is it Bacon? A slab of bacon on that bad boy? No, that's a, I love him though. Is it a Bridges? No, it's, it's a less, like, I may be throwing you with one of my favorite. Oh, it's a Colin Farrell movie. Yeah. He was, he was around in the 80s. 1985. Look, I, you're not going to know it, but I'll tell you that the star is Susan Sarandon

2:16:35and then my favorite actor is who I'm referring to as Raul Julia. Oh, this is, uh, what's it called? Called Compromising Positions. Yeah, there we go. Anyone seen it? No. Paul and Kale liked this one, apparently. Oh, good. Number five at the box office. Mm-hmm. Is a film that I am Googling to triple check that it is a comedy. Yes, it is. Big star. Okay. Two big stars. All right. Big act, big guy who will become big actor is still in the comedy lane.

2:17:09Mm-hmm. Is one of the stars. The other star, comedy legend. Nothing in common. No, but you're in the right ballpark. Fuck. Okay. So it's like that. It's like a Hanks and a Gleeson. It's a Hanks and a someone. It's a Hanks and a someone. Is it Dragnet? No. The movie that inspired the Dragnet rap. It's a different Hanks. It's not Money Pit. No. I believe. Because you said the second person's more kind of legendary elder statesman. Comedy person. No, I didn't see you. I didn't see you. I just said the legendary comedy person.

2:17:39Okay. This, I think this is where Tom Hanks meets Rita Wilson. Oh, this is Volunteers? Volunteers. Volunteers. And who is the comedy star I refer to? John Candy. John Candy. Yeah. This is a Nicholas Meyer movie. I've never seen it. Never seen it either. I don't know what it's about. I would guess it's about volunteers. Okay. I always get volunteers in Great Outdoors confused because Great Outdoors is Annette Bening's debut film. And this is, if not Rita Wilson's debut, obviously her breakout.

2:18:09I don't know. They're like building a bridge. Yeah, good. There's like monkeys. And they're running. I have no idea what's going on. Rita Wilson's showing Midriff on the poster. Yeah. Hello. Yeah. Like Tom Hanks is like spoiled rich kid. John Candy is probably more salt of the earth. It is really funny to look at the 80s, Hanks, and be like, no one would have bet money on this guy owning the 90s. And just becoming America's like elder statesman. Everything. Yeah. Number six at the box office is Cocoon. Mm-hmm. You know that one?

2:18:41I haven't seen it, but I'm familiar. You know what? This is a generational thing. Yeah. Cocoon has famously been out of circulation for like a decade. Our friend Matt Patches did an article about it. It is not streamable anywhere. The DVD, Blu-ray, out of print. I feel like it was a real cable TV movie. But it's one of those films that was just a humongous fucking hit that won two Academy Awards, three, and now just kind of doesn't exist. Do you know the premise of Cocoon? Uh-uh. I couldn't tell you. Uh, there's an old folks home and aliens land in the swimming pool and the swimming pool

2:19:14makes them young. That sounds fucking awesome. It's like the beach that makes you old in reverse. They still look old, but they can do young person stuff. So it's a bunch of like legendary old actors doing dances and shit. Don Ameche won an Oscar. He's upset that I'm talking about Cocoon. Number seven is the Michael Chimino movie, Year of the Dragon, which is totally not racist at all. Good. Number eight is American Ninja. I bet you that one's not racist. What is that one? Good. Uh, it's exactly what it sounds like. Oh, yeah? Promise of the premise. Why am I not? I think it's a canon film.

2:19:44The problem is American Ninja Warrior is really fucking with me here. Uh, yeah. It's, uh, Yo-Hum-Globus, you know, Menahem-Golem. Okay, whatever. Yeah. Michael Dudikoff. Yeah. Fine. Number nine is Rambo First Blood Part II. Rambo First Blood Part II. Rambo II. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. It is, you know, silly fun. Mm-hmm. Number 10 is the, uh, interesting, uh, commercial failure Lawrence Kazza movie, Silverado. Yeah, fun movie. Yeah. That is the 10. Okay.

2:20:15Allie, do you have anything to plug? You're not on social media, are you? I am. I've been sitting on that joke for two hours and 24 minutes. If you Google bald and out, you will find me. You'll find it. I'll be back on Instagram. I deactivated. I need a week to cleanse my brain. Of course, you're doing great. Yeah. Thanks. Glasses fell in the toilet. My glasses fell in the toilet this week. They got flushed because it was auto flush. Had to drop, um, a lot of money. Let's get auto flush out of here. Let's get it out. And I say this as someone who spends too much time on toilets. You need to be doing that yourself.

2:20:46You need to have control of the timing. Yeah, because it never flushes when you need it. Nope. Never. Not once. That's what, the toilet overflowing in after hours felt very... Griffin Newman coated? Yeah. Yes, 100%. Yes, unfortunately, yes. Yeah, but I, I had my, my pointer and my thumb kind of on the glasses, but before I could really get a good grip, they were just ripped out of my hands by the auto flush. And so I got toilet water on my hands with none of the payoff of getting my glasses out of the toilet. So I hope my, my message to the masses is, uh, take your glasses off before you go in

2:21:16to the bathroom. I do. I put them on the collar. That's what I do. That's a good one. I take them off and I put them on the collar. Just don't put them on your head. That's what I learned. I don't. Yeah, no, it's a bad idea. Yeah. Um, well, that's a really good plug. Thank you. Don't put glasses on your head when using toilet. Yeah. Um, after this, Martin Scorsese finally has an unqualified hit. Yes. The Color of Money. Right. We recorded that episode with Chris Ryan and as far as I know, it is our 600th episode. Whoa. Yeah, he hadn't seen the movie before and I don't think he liked it very much.

2:21:49Just kidding. It's in the way it's in the way. There we go. Quick question. How old is Marty when he directs this movie? Quick question. 40 something? Marty Scorsese, of course, was born in 1942. Mm-hmm. So he's about 42, 43 years old. Yeah. Why? He's about, I was just curious. He's about David age? He's about David age. Are you accusing him of being chopped by the time he made this film? Was he unk? He was unk. He was unk. He wasn't chopped. What's Ohio? What's the, isn't there a state that they use to mean lame and it's rude?

2:22:22And why they, you mean? I don't know. The young people. My little cousin was telling me that some, some, do you know what I'm talking about here? No, I don't. There's a state that's now like synonymous with lame and I find it offensive. Well, what states do you have a personal tie to? All of them. I love this country. Wow. Yay. Happy Septuquint to Brunson. Very good. Thank you. Yes. Anything else you would like to plug? You should have a podcast. You should have a podcast.

2:22:52Maybe I will. Well, well, well. That's a threat to the masses. Maybe I'll make a podcast. Maybe I'll start Twitch streaming. Yeah. I was about to say, you're threatening a Twitch. You're going to learn video games and stream it real time. And it's a really good pitch. It is Ohio. It is Ohio. Thank you. It looks like I'm the hippest and the youngest. Well, well, well. You like break a bone. I am a baby. Griffin just turned 20. I did. I got to dinner with my grandmother and her friends last night. And every time I do this, it reminds me that I share most conditions with people in their 90s.

2:23:27Yeah. But the thing is, Griffin, now that you're calling it out on the podcast, it's kind of chuggy. It's kind of cool. Look, my body's Ohio, but my brain is also Ohio.

2:23:40Hey, I popped an antacid before I came here. That's what it's about. That's what it's all about. The hot girls have tummy troubles or some shit. Isn't that a meme? It was. Okay. Don't try that. Now that's Ohio. That's Ohio. That is so Ohio. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming. Please come back, Allie. Thank you for having me on. And yeah, next week, Color Money. Take us out of here, Griffin. Launch us out of here. Yeah, do the whole thing. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. You can go to patreon.com slash blank check for our Patreon blank check special features,

2:24:13where we're currently watching the Resident Evil movies. We must be getting... We're about halfway through... Yep. Retribution coming up. Going up to Dracula, our March Madness winner after... Yeah, that'll start in November. And as always... Yes. I want to make a commitment on the show to cover more Griffin movies. Yes. So unfortunately, it does mean we're going to have to cover the films of Frank Karachi. Don't get it. The zookeeper's name is Griffin. We all know that Kevin James' zookeeper's name Griffin.

2:24:44We all know that. His name is Griffin. Everybody knows that. Everyone knows that Kevin James' zookeeper's name Griffin. I've been really tempted to start just saying numbers during this outro. Blank Check with Griffin and David is hosted by Griffin Newman and David Sims. Our executive producer is me, Ben Hosley. Our creative producer is Marie Barty Salinas. And our associate producer is AJ McKeon.

2:25:15This show is mixed and edited by AJ McKeon and Alan Smithy. Research by J.J. Birch. Our theme song is by Lane Montgomery in The Great American Novel. With additional music by Alex Mitchell. Artwork by Joe Bowen, Holly Moss, and Pat Reynolds. Our production assistant is Minnick. Special thanks to David Cho, Jordan Fish, and Nate Patterson for their production help. Head over to BlankCheckPod.com for links to all of the real nerdy shit. Join our Patreon, Blank Check Special Features, for exclusive franchise commentaries and bonus episodes.

2:25:48Follow us on social at BlankCheckPod. Subscribe to our weekly newsletter, Checkbook on Substack. This podcast is created and produced by Blank Check Production.