Why should I spend time in nature?

Why nature heals our minds

0:00ABC Listen. Podcasts, radio, news, music and more.

0:07In the course of my travels, I've been recording nature soundscapes with the aim of helping you, Australia, to relax. And in this particular overnight recording, there was this one duck that just kept screaming its guts out. Anyway, don't worry, I've selected only the best, most relaxing soundscapes that absolutely do not feature this duck. Find Nature Sounds by Anne Jones wherever you get your podcasts and on the ABC Listen app.

0:37I don't consider myself a very outdoorsy person. I don't really go camping. I'm very much a city girl. But even I love the feeling of getting out of the city from time to time and getting into nature. Because there's something about nature that just calms the nerves, doesn't it? I felt like nature had sort of soothed those bits that were hurting or a little bit uncomfortable. I'm a saltwater person, so being in the saltwater is the thing that really kind of recalibrates me.

1:08That and also just being within nature, looking around and seeing all the different native plants and knowing what I can use them for. There's also research to back up what we know instinctively, that nature can make us feel good. Our research shows that if you're living closer to green space and with a lot of tree canopies, we're talking about 30% or more, that will help you to reduce the risk of developing depression, anxiety, and also even help reduce loneliness.

1:38From ABC Radio National, this is All in the Mind. I'm Sana Kadar. Today, producer Rose Kerr joins me in the studio. Hey, Rose. Hi, Sana. Thanks for having me. So, now, this is an episode that you did back in 2023. It's from our archives. But we thought it was worth revisiting for National Science Week, something you've been pretty involved in this year. Yes. So, this year, ABC Radio National is on a nationwide search for Australia's most amazing wildflower. Basically, there's 10 shortlisted flowers

2:09and people can vote for their favourite. We'll put a link and all the details in the show notes. But while we've been discussing all things flowers, it did remind me of how beneficial spending time in nature can be for our mental health. Like, I was speaking to a botanical illustrator recently who spends a lot of time out in the bush so she can paint landscapes. And I just thought that was such a beautiful way to spend time in nature without having to go on a hike. Yes. I would literally rather do anything but go on a hike.

2:39Yeah. But I still want to be amongst the trees. Exactly. And that is something that we talk about in this episode. You really don't have to be doing high-impact exercise to still get the benefits of nature. And to be clear, I do go on hikes. Just not really hard ones.

Finding peace through mindfulness and trees

2:53Yes. Yes. On a very cold but thankfully sunny day, I went to the park to meet Belinda McCauley. When I arrived here, I was immediately drawn to the sunny spot. I take a moment to ground, so just feeling the earth beneath my feet and I like to kind of look up to the sky. Belinda loves spending time in nature. And just take a couple of breaths. And if I could say there's a place that feels most like home,

3:26it's the south-west of Western Australia. That's where I grew up and where I have some really fond memories and I guess some first memories of my sort of deep connection to nature. Yeah. Can you tell me a bit about that first connection? Yeah. Well, I grew up on a farm as a kid and I used to go out to the forest with mum and dad collecting wood for our wood fire. And quite often we'd take a picnic. It was during these times, and I was a teenager, that I really felt this,

3:57I don't know, it's hard to describe, but it was just like a peacefulness. And it was certainly felt for me after I'd been in the forest and sort of going home. I just felt so much more softened and I felt like nature had sort of soothed those bits that were hurting or a little bit uncomfortable. In her 20s, as life got busier with travel, work and study, Belinda's connection to nature slowly disappeared. I probably lost my way a bit then. I sort of just got a job and, you know,

4:30life kind of took over. Then, Belinda would receive news that uprooted her life. So my niece was diagnosed with a rare cancer. She was, I think, 15 at her diagnosis. And my family are very close. And I guess I took on a support role to help my sister through that, you know, first initial period of treatment. But I was just, I was a wreck. Like I didn't actually sort of know how to deal

5:02with my feelings and my emotions. I was really angry. It just impacted on every aspect of my life. It was impacting on my relationships with my family, the very people that I felt like I needed to support. And it was, that was probably the catalyst for me to go, well, you know, if I'm going to play a support role in, you know, helping my family along this journey, I really need to get my shit together. So I suppose it was a bit of a kick up the bum. And yeah, I went for help.

5:36Belinda worked with a therapist who introduced her to mindfulness and meditation. This mindfulness meditation is, wow. Like it was transformational for me. And there was a really pivotal moment, I would say. My niece went on to have a secondary cancer and then she was diagnosed as terminal. And I remember the last, the last sort of months or weeks and I was with my family and I'd returned to the house and I was sitting outside drip drying.

6:09And I just had this moment where I had really sort of tuned into this sense of peace within me. And I realised that even though there was all this chaos unfolding around me and there was grief and there was soon to be, you know, death, I actually felt this sense of peace and calm within me. And I believe that's what mindfulness meditation gave me.

6:39Combining mindfulness with a rediscovered love of nature was a game changer for Belinda's mental health. She's so passionate about the effects it's had on her life that she started a business running outdoor group mindfulness sessions called Mindful in Nature. It was through this practice of mindfulness and this remembering of what it was like to be connected with nature and feel in relationship with and have this reciprocal kind of relationship with nature that really kind of pulled me back.

7:11And that was the moment.

The science of green spaces

7:23Belinda's not alone in finding nature restorative. Researchers have been investigating the impact of green spaces on nature and our well-being and it's clear that nature makes us feel better. From our research, also others in the world, we find nature have a lot of positive impact on our health, not only physically, but also mentally. Dr. Xiaqi Feng is a professor of urban health and environment. She's also the founding co-director of the Power Lab.

7:54That's the Population, Wellbeing and Environment Research Lab. Our research shows that if you live in closer to green space and with a lot of tree canopies, we're talking about 30% or more, that will help you to reduce the risk of developing depression, anxiety, also even help reduce loneliness. And physical health, I think maybe it's easier to understand that you probably can go into walking, jogging, or running around in the local park,

8:26so which is good for our physical health, it's good for our heart. But being in the park, in the green space, it's also helping us to socially connect. When we're at the park, we experience social connection just by being around other people, so that's good for reducing loneliness. Being outdoors also restores us. We have those days you feel exhausted, tired, maybe a bit negative emotion, but being the nature walk about 20 minutes or more.

8:57When I come out, I felt like my mind completely refreshed, and I think, oh wow, that was not a big deal. I didn't necessarily talk to anyone, but just seeing the live nature and the being in it, and it's refreshed my mind, which helped us to restore, which I actually published a paper with many researchers in the world. And restoration is one of the pathways that we investigated that could link green space and health. Researchers like Xiao are looking for ways to get people into nature

9:28so they can actually feel these benefits. One of these potential ways is through nature prescriptions. It's a written recommendation to spend more time in nature by a GP or another health professional. So this might involve referrals to group-based activities in nature, such as outdoor yoga class or forest bathing or community gardening work, which happen in many communities.

9:59There is increasing use nature prescription in many countries, like Canada and the UK. But there's not just getting started in Australia, including my research team. We are currently recruiting participants to join our new trial, which we call PANDER, physical activity in nature for people with metabolic diseases at age 45 and over. What we would like to know

10:29is that whether spending time in nature, have nature prescriptions by a health professional could increase people's physical activity level and whether this could help people with cardiometabolic diseases better manage their health condition just by simply in nature.

10:55If you're someone who loves being outdoors, you might be thinking, why is a prescription really necessary? Well, there seems to be a group of people who aren't drawn to nature in the first place. So the Canadian GPs, they recommend that we need to spend at least two hours a week in nature. And that is based on a study which published in UK. They find that spend at least two hours a week is good for our health. However, we don't know

11:26whether this is the case in Australia. But what surprised me is that during the pandemic, me and Professor Thomas Esther Bird from University of Wollongong and the team, we conducted a national survey in Australia. But this is time what happened is that we are still kind of in pandemic, but we're not stay locked down, stay at home with a 5km restriction and also most of us still work from home.

11:57And you would expect two hours a week in nature, no brainer. Yeah. But one third of Australians did not achieve that. So one third of Australians haven't even spent two hours a week in nature, which let me think, wow, 82% of Australians actually said, we would like to have a nature prescription. If it's issued by a health professional. Why do you think they need that extra encouragement

12:28from a health professional? There are barriers like the access barrier or quality of green space or nature. But we also talk about there are motivations. Shao suggests that we need to consider both motivations and barriers when we think about nature prescriptions. And if we group people looking at their motivations or access to a green space, there's one group Shao isn't particularly concerned about. We have people have the motivation and also, you know, they have great access. Fantastic.

12:58But then there's people who might be motivated to visit a park, but don't have access. Others have good access, but very little motivation. And some that have neither. Given we know all the benefits, just being in nature, the health benefits, the wellbeing, we really should think about how we can work with the community, the policy makers, urban planners, and to work out the nature prescription and the town planning. As researchers like Shao investigate

13:30the role nature can play in our wellbeing, it's worth reflecting on the connection First Nations Australians have with country.

Connecting to country and culture

13:36My name's Josh Brown. I'm a proud Warramai man from the Fosterton Curry region of New South Wales, and I'm the co-founder of Deadly Ed, which is an Aboriginal education provider ensuring anyone anywhere has access to quality and authentic Aboriginal education. Josh, for you, how do you personally feel when you're in nature? It's a thing that immediately connects you and grounds you back into culture straight away. I think if I'm ever having a day

14:07where it's like I don't feel like myself or I don't feel like I'm connected with culture, yeah, I work in and with culture every day, but at times when you start to, as we are now experiencing, you start to go into this business westernised realm, combining culture with that, at times it can feel like, are you actually in culture or not? So, for me, nature is the most important part of that,

14:38and it's the most important part of, for anyone, to connect with culture. Do you have a favourite place? Look, you'll find that any Aboriginal people or any First Nations people around the world will say where they're from is their favourite place, and that's always been the case for me, and it hasn't really been until I, you know, I move, I've moved away, like growing up, you're sort of, you know, after 18 years in the same spot, you're like, oh, just want to get out of here, you know, but it's,

15:09it's that thing of, when you move away from it, you then start to really think about all the things that you really like about it, and then where you then move to, you then start to connect with like, oh, I connect with this because that's what I'm used to, where I'm from, you know, so where you're from and your own mob or from your own country, that's where you always connect with first, as we always remember first. Josh is from the Tuncurry region on the mid-north coast of New South Wales. So for me, I'm a saltwater person,

15:41so being in the saltwater is the thing that really kind of recalibrates me, that and also just being within nature, looking around and seeing all the different native plants and knowing what I can use them for, they're the stuff that really connects me back to nature and back to culture immediately. As part of Josh's job, he teaches people of all different backgrounds how to connect with nature and culture. So when we're thinking of our connection with country,

16:12it's thinking firstly that culture isn't people, right? And that's the misconception that cultures of the world are the people. Well, it's actually not. The culture is the land. So how do you connect with the land around you? That is how you connect with culture. It's just that the people are kind of like the middle person because, look, I don't know about you, Rose, but yeah, look, trees and plants don't necessarily speak unless you've had a few too many one night

16:44and who knows. But essentially it's the people that provide the knowledge of how to connect with local land and culture. So really it's, and that's what anyone can do and it's not a case of like, oh, it's only Aboriginal people that can connect with local country. And like when you think about it, how do you connect with the land around you? Well, that's how you're connecting with it, right? It's not what someone else tells you. It's how you connect with it.

17:15Like whether it is that, oh, I like looking at this, I like feeling this, I like smelling this, I like tasting this. And really the only way to connect with country, to connect with land is through the senses. If you're not connecting through the senses and you're not really connecting with it. I saw that you do a bush tucker program as part of Deadly Ed. Could you tell us a bit about what happens during those programs and what kind of feedback you get from people? So with our gardens and our bush tucker programs,

17:45that's all around how do we connect people of all ages to land, to our native plants and how do we teach people about native plants and their many varying cultural uses of these plants. Not just where I or my staff are from, but different plants use wild different roles for different purposes all across Australia. So that's one element of it is how can we educate people about that side of things in terms of educating people more about culture and how native plants

18:15are actually the most critical part of culture, but they're the most critical part in terms of sustainability and introducing the different, I guess, aspects of land management and positive land management that, look, so many of our mobs have done for, you know, millennials. So it's sort of, it starts with that, but then I guess the more hands-on stuff that we really want to get across to people of all ages is knowing

18:46how to grow a plant or how to grow a garden yourself, how to start it from scratch and how to keep looking after it yourself. It'd be great that I can teach as many people as I can how to grow a $10 lettuce. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And it's like if we don't know how just to grow our own food, then that's something that we should be really taking seriously and that's something that I want to see happen more is that our own

19:16Aboriginal communities not just know how to grow their own food, but they know how to grow bush tucker. They know how to grow the stuff that grows where they are because that knowledge, unfortunately, in many parts of Australia has been lost. It's gone. And we're in this phase of, yeah, some mobs having to relearn this stuff, which, yeah, it is. It's a massive shame, but if we can at least provide some kind of outlet now, I think that's a really positive start, at least. Yeah, and kind of

19:47rebuilding that connection and tapping into it. Yeah. Yeah, essentially, like, you know, the knowledge around native plants and, you know, traditional, you know, land management practices, yeah, they're happening in different parts across Australia and then there's parts where people were just kind of like, well, we don't even know where to start.

20:06It's like old uncle or auntie, such and such, you know, they passed away a few years ago or something. So I think for us, it's how can we make sure we're helping other mob to know how to do this stuff themselves. Thinking about the people you've done the programs with, what do you see within them in terms of their wellbeing as they engage in these programs? It's one of the things that when I was growing up, I thought gardening was just like the most boring thing ever at its own for old people.

20:38And like my mum always laughs about how like, you know, so into this that I am now because she always says like, oh, well, you know, in high school you just destroyed most plants playing cricket. And just saying, oh, get over it mum, they're just plants.

20:56And it's really interesting now, like I see kids in primary school, I see kids in high school, I see adults and the immediate thing is, oh, this is actually like really like therapeutic. Like I feel like, you know, really good. Like I was able to just zone out and just do this hands-on activity. In her Mindful and Nature sessions, Belinda has also noticed people come away feeling peaceful. You can see it in people's faces. Quite often the last place that we relax is our face.

21:26So just by noticing people's faces and even their shoulders, I certainly carry stress in my shoulders, their body has softened. But even in their words and how they relate to the experience and how they relate to others in the group, you can certainly see that it's had a calming effect on people and there's a sense of quiet that this experience evokes within you.

Designing cities for wellbeing

21:54But not everyone wants to garden or meditate. This is why nature prescriptions would need to be customisable so you actually do the activity. because not everyone going to buy, say, do a park run at 6am on Saturday. They may do it once, you know, and then it's not sustainable. That's part of the implementation. It needs to be customised for people to make it sustainable and with the motivation so then they could really benefit from nature. I would say this is one of the

22:25prescriptions probably have no or very little set effect. The only thing I could imagine is you need some protection before you go out so we don't get skin cancer. But other than that I think it's very healthy. Given not everyone will have the same use of a nature space, we also need diversity in our parks. In your neighbourhood you might have seen small parks dotted around between suburbs. These are what Xiao calls pocket parks. They're great because they provide a green space but they often tend to serve the same

22:55purpose. If you're going to this park for 10 minutes you know you can walk around and you're going to the other park pretty much the same but the population could have quite diverse. We have children, family, ageing population or people you know they are 9 to 5 or even 9 to 8 kind of walking hours. If we have those pocket parks within walking distance or short drive they have different functions. that probably will help the local

23:26population. Some of them you can go there just to have a run but the other one maybe quite smart is just good enough for people find a bench or sit on the grass and maybe there's another park you can actually off-leash your dog. So all that it's difficult to achieve if you just have one small park and it won't have all those functions but we could potentially achieve that where a few of the pocket park in the neighbourhood and this requires the urban planners

23:57to really carefully design the local community parks and to really think about who live here and listen the community's voice. It sounds like the nature prescriptions need to work in conjunction with the urban planners and people who are looking at the demographics of the community so it seems like something that's very multi-tiered. Absolutely and this is what Panda part of the Panda I think is very special that we aim to call design

24:27with consumers with health professionals and also those nature practitioners so this is where we all learn from each other and so by the end of day we are able to know what we can provide to the participant to the general population and hopefully that we'll have more healthier community and building environment in the very near future. Working with urban planners and government is actually something Xiao has done before.

24:58Her earlier research influenced the planning of Sydney's green cover. So I remember well over 10 years ago when I first present my research on green space and health at the Royal Botany Garden in Sydney next to the Opera House we have quite a lot of policy makers or people from consul and they said amazing we really like your research and which provides scientific evidence show how this green space benefits on health. So then they asked me a question say hi Xiao

25:29can you tell me how much green space we need? And I was like oh very good question I would like two probably is a million dollar question and I hope I could answer and you know what actually I did got a million dollars of those research fundings very competitive funding around and after we published about 87 research just on green space and health which there's a continuous figure come

25:59out it's 30% or more tree canopies in our neighborhood could help us to maintain or improve our physical health and also good for our mental health as well reduce depression anxiety and even loneliness this 30% green cover kept coming up in Xiao's research she presented it to industry and policy makers when they make their urban greening or forest strategy they take my

26:30advice and use my research and think about what they need to do so they are actually going to aim even higher like city of Sydney is 40% or more I mean to achieve in the next 10 years which I think is fantastic because we do need a good amount of tree canopies and green space especially given our growing population so if say today we have 100 square of green space in our neighborhood for

27:01500 households great but give 10 years time this may become high density neighborhood it's no longer 500 people anymore it could be 5000 but if we still have the same amount of green space that means the ratio become really high right so this is where we should really work in more and with quality makers that creating high quality green space and tree canopies

27:31for our urban people when her

Lasting memories in Kings Park

27:39niece would get treatment Belinda would take her over to Kings Park I remember this one particular day we were laying in the park and was surrounded by all these trees and I said to her let's imagine where the trees and let's see if we can name them and talk about their lives and their journey and what they've experienced and so we did we went on and we started talking about the trees as if we were their ancestors

28:10and their scars and all their wounds we would talk about how they got them and it was such a beautiful experience and something that a memory that stays with me because you know even for her with I guess everything that was going on it was just a moment to remember there's that remembering of where we came from and also just being there in the present moment appreciating all the beauty around us that is

28:44Belinda Macaulay founder of Mindful in Nature you also heard from Dr. Shao Chi Fong professor of urban health and environment at the University of New South Wales and founding co-director of the Power Group thanks also to Josh Brown co-founder of Deadly Ed this episode was reported and produced by Rose Kerr our sound engineer this week was John Jacobs I'm Sonica Dar and that's it for All in the Mind this week thanks for listening I'll catch you next

29:14time you've been listening to an ABC podcast discover more great ABC podcasts live radio and exclusives on the ABC Listen app