Why Every Traded Personal Agents for One Company Agent

The Rise of Persistent Agents

0:00The hot thing right now is Dots. They're persistent agents from OpenAI. I was there at DevDay when they launched them. I interviewed Sam about them, and I've been using Dots since before they came out, and now we're into week two of Dots. So, how's it going? If you read my vibe check, you know that I thought they were a little bit rough to begin with, but that the idea of a persistent, proactive agent was obviously the future. Even before Dots launched, they'd become my main way of interacting with ChatGPT, and they're still that way after launch.

0:32I'm really excited about the little things they've been doing to make the experience less buggy and more complete, and I think it'll get even better over the next couple weeks. What's been really interesting, though, is seeing the team at every. We've got about 30 people seeing them start to adopt it and some of the use cases that have started to emerge. So, in case you're looking for some use cases, I actually had my dot collect some use cases to talk to you about.

Practical Use Cases at Every

0:59So, one thing that Dots are really useful for is keeping up with school emails. So, Kieran Klassen, who works at Every, says that it scans all of the school emails he gets from his kid's school and tells them what he needs to know. Another thing that Dots are really good for is catching access requests or, like, little things, little messages you might have missed in Slack and making sure that you get them. So, Ariel Shipper, our head of operations, her dot caught a few people asking for different accounts across the company and asked if she wanted it to just approve access.

1:31Dots are also really good for working when you're not at your computer or your hands are full. So, our head of video, Randy Koonsman, was running around yesterday trying to get our launch video out for the Every Agent which launched. And he was doing work for that launch just on the phone with his dot, talking it through different video edits and different things he needed to get done. I also think this is something that came up in my interview with Sam, and I feel this, too. Dots are really good for filtering out all of the noise that you don't really want to see and only showing you stuff that really matters.

2:03So, for example, I was doing a lot of model testing over the weekend, and normally model testing requires me to be in the Every Slack, which once I'm in Slack, it's just like this rabbit hole of I'm just going down doing tons and tons and tons of work. And what was amazing about using my dot doing model testing was I was able to post the results of all the experiments I was running in Slack. And if someone responded, my dot would tell me about the response, which would help me stay up to date on what the team was thinking without getting me sucked into the whole rabbit hole of everything going on in Slack.

2:36And that helped keep my weekend pretty clear and calm. And I think that's a huge, huge thing for dots. So, what's the overall vibe? If you don't have a dot, I highly recommend you get one, especially if you're in the Chachaputi ecosystem. If you're using Muse or Instinct or GrokBots, you should check it out. I think that they're pretty much at feature parity right now, but there's something really good about having something that's hooked into the entire rest of the ecosystem that you use for your work and your life.

Current Flaws and Personal Bots

3:04There are still rough edges, though. The whole permission structure of dots is, like, completely a mystery to me and is extremely annoying. So, for example, I often have to give multiple approvals to my dot to do something basic, and even when I give it approval, it says it can't do it. So, they really need to figure that stuff out to make the experience awesome. But I would expect, in a year, this is the default way that you're interacting with all your AIs. You're probably not going to have it be a cute character. That would be my other, like, little hot take. Mine is named Boo. He's super cute. But my experience using Open Claws and other named agents like this is that as soon as something better comes along, you throw away the cute little character you develop.

3:42So, my guess is I'll be using a persistent agent in a year, but Boo will probably be dead. Rip Boo. We've also actually been working on our own persistent agent that's not a personal agent. It's a company agent. And that's actually come from this whole journey we've been on, starting with Open Claws inside of Every and everybody having a personal agent and realizing how valuable it was for the company to have a personal agent. So, we built one for ourselves, and then we just released it to all of our subscribers. So, I brought Willie Williams on, our head of platform, who was instrumental in bringing the agent to life to talk about personal agents versus company agents, what it's like to build an agent at the frontier right now, and what that means for engineering teams going forward.

Reflecting on Open Claw

4:25I hope you enjoy.

Reflecting on Open Claw

4:26Willie, welcome to the show. Oh, thank you for having me. So, for people who don't know, you are the head of platform. You are one of the driving forces behind the Every Agent, which we, well, by the time this comes out, we'll have launched. It's launching tomorrow. And I want to talk to you about the whole agent phenomenon, because I think we're in this world right now where personal agents are the hot thing.

5:03And there's like a little bit of Groundhog's Day for me, I assume for you, because we went through our personal agent phase like nine months ago or eight months ago with the original Open Claw phase, and I feel like we learned a lot from that. And then now I feel like there's this whole new era of people who are experiencing the same thing, and maybe we'll learn the same lessons. And for us, we went from Open Claw, everyone in the company's got a personal agent, to we have a company agent, and we liked the company agent so much that we actually just made a company agent for other people to use.

5:35But I want to just talk about that and try to talk about it as honestly as we can, because it's possible we're wrong. Yeah. But I do think we've learned some things that are important. Maybe let's start with Open Claw, because we actually disagreed, and I think you ended up being right. So tell us about the Open Claw situation and sort of your take, and talk about why I was wrong. Well, I think that the funniest thing was actually at the time, it was called Claudius?

6:06Claudius? Claudius. It was like the earlier version before, because it was Clawbot, right? Oh. Right? And even before that. Interesting. It was called Maltbot. No, there was Maltbot. We forget about the Maltbot. The two days of Maltbot. Big shout out to Ash, actually, who was like, who I think first messaged me about it, and he was like, Ash is one of our contributing writers, and he was like, dude, this thing is awesome. And I remember, because I knew Peter's name from the top token burners leaderboard.

6:39He was up there, and I was like, oh man, these folks are burning a lot of tokens, right? And they were just like, oh yeah, he's making this thing called Claudius. And I was like, oh, this is kind of a weird thing, you know, kind of follow the project. And then Ash came back and was like, oh yeah, dude, this is really cool. And so we started trying it, and then I think Brandon was the first one who was like, okay, I've got one. Yeah. You know, I've got one, and I'm starting to, like, wire it up, right? R.I.P. Zosia.

7:10R.I.P. Zosia. And I think, you know, and then it really kicked off in January, because we went to Think Week, right? And for folks who don't know, it's like our semi-annual gathering of every, where we sort of like think about the future, you know? And that was a place where we were finally all in person, we were like, oh, I can show you what's going on, right? And I think there's a lot, this is a reoccurring theme of, like, showing people how to use A.I. is like a very transformative thing, but telling them is sort of like lands flat.

7:40And so we had a bunch of people who were open-claw-pilled who were like, oh yeah, this is cool, like this is what I do. I order my groceries, I've got it in my group chat with my family, you know? It really spread, like we were all in Panama together, and I remember coming out of that. I think there was a model drop on the day we left, and the claws just started working way better. And then I made this, like, internal place for them to, like, talk, and they started talking to each other in our Slack. And it was like, whoa, this is crazy.

8:10Yeah, there was, it was like a funny thing where we were like, okay, the first blocker is just a little bit too technical. And so we went through a couple iterations of, like, how do we do it for the team or the less technical members of the team? And there was like, you know, we've got a template, so we're spinning up info for that. And then we made a little service so where anyone could, like, enter, like, kind of walk through people through the setup. And then we get there. But we're also, like, looking at it, and we're like, oh man, security's hard, you know, for all of these things.

8:41But, you know, we sort of, like, I think we, like, powered through a lot of that. And, I mean, I have this vivid memory of just, like, so many bots in our Slack. Like, so many bots. Like, absolute chaos. Because you also have more than one. Brendan being, like, just having so many bots running around doing various things. And I think, I mean, I think the big takeaway was, one, it was so valuable for people to see other people using AI.

9:14And, you know, up until this point, it was like, oh, I built this, like, gigantic, like, Claude or Codex command center on my local machine. I've got it doing everything. But, like, the only thing that people would see was the output of it. And so, once we had OpenCloset Slack, it was like, oh, I didn't know I could use it that way. Oh, that's actually pretty cool. And I didn't know that you prompted in this way. Yeah. Like, there's all these little things people do when they're using their AI that you never got to see. And it was like, oh, oh, I'm, like, learning every time I look into Slack.

9:48Yeah. And the other thing I think that was really big was, you know, I think we liked our personal bots. And I think this is another thing that I think we're seeing now, again, is that you sort of form, you're like, oh, I'm attached to what mine was last, right? I'm, like, attached to last, right? And what it does, and it's like a customization. So, for folks who are, like, tinkers, folks who are builders who like playing with these things, it was, like, a great, these setups are great, you know? Now, for folks who aren't, folks who are, like, a little bit more in terms of the, like, operator thing, it was just like, oh, this is, there's a bunch of security worries.

10:26It's super complex. How do I get it set up? It keeps breaking. And then if you don't invest in it, it, like, kind of fades. It, like, doesn't, it doesn't keep going with the rest of it. And I think that was, that for us was the striking point where it was sort of, like, we want, instead of everyone investing in their own agents and making them better, you know, day to day over time. It's like, well, why don't we take all that energy and put it into one agent that the whole company benefits from? If you're enjoying this show, you should subscribe to Every. Every is the only subscription you need to stay at the edge of AI.

10:58And for a limited time, we're giving all of the viewers and listeners of this show 14 days for free to get all the education and equipment you need to stay at the edge. If that sounds like you, you should subscribe. The link's in the description. I think also what happened is everyone had open claws. And for sure, like, one of the coolest things was your claw became a little bit of an extension of you. Like, it sort of, I remember one of the first people who, well, Brandon was, like, a big driving force here. And then the second person who, like, really took it to a new level was Austin, who was at the time our head of growth.

11:35And he had, he had, like, a growth claw that you could ask all growth questions to. And that was, like, really interesting. But I think, at least my memory of what happened is, then we started, we were, like, oh, we're going to build a platform for anyone to make their own, their own claw. Even if you're non-technical, called plus one, RIP plus one. But I don't think at that point it was really a company agent. It was just, like, make a claw, like, one-click claw maker. And we tried that. And we were having a lot of internal debates about should it be one agent for everyone or an agent per person?

12:11You were very one agent for everyone. I was very, like, agent per person. I think you had a lot of hesitancies about the idea of building up our own platform infrastructure to support this, like, claw as a service thing. And we were, like, fuck it. Like, let's do it anyway. And we were, like, okay.

12:30Which I appreciate. But also, like, in retrospect, was, like, not the best idea. And, like, we, so we launched that in beta and I think basically found that it was, there was a lot of demand, especially at that time there was a lot of demand for it. But OpenClaw itself, it was very hard to build a platform on. It was, like, moving so fast and it was completely vibe-coded. And, like, it's just hard to make the entire technical stack and then have some, have, like, an open source product that's not really designed to be a platform, like, as the thing you're serving.

13:04So that was, like, messy. And through that process, I think all of our claws basically died. Yeah. Because we just stopped. I remember my claw was named R2C2. And I felt, like, oh, yeah, I had this, like, really attached relationship to R2C2. And then at some point, like, someone knocked the Mac Mini power off. And then, like, it disappeared. But I didn't restart it, you know? Because, like, at that point I was using Codex and I was, like, this is fine.

13:34Like, I don't need that. And that was, like, a really interesting thing for me to realize. I was, like, oh, okay, there's all these people in the org who don't really, who don't really want to maintain their own claws. And then the people who do want to do it, like, eventually you kind of get tired of it if there's a better option. And what we ended up doing is we, I think we were always starting to use, like, Claude or Codex. And then there are a couple of these company agents that we tried that, like, really sort of changed how we thought about this.

14:06So Victor being one, which was just really, really well designed.

14:11And I think at that point we started to realize, oh, like, having a single company agent makes a huge difference.

Company Agents Versus Personal Bots

14:18Yeah, there's a lot. I mean, it even just boils down to sort of, like, naming, right? Remembering which agent had which expertise was annoying and hard. And I remember, like, Austin's agent, Montaigne, right? Was, like, oh, it sort of became the gravitational center because he built it up to be, like, so good at the growth job that it was, like, well, I could add. I'm already using it for, in myself, like, minor growth jobs.

14:48Yeah. Like, I could invest in my agent or I could just add on to Montaigne and everyone else. Yeah.

14:55Sort of gains from that. And I think there were a lot of pressures there. But, of course, like, counteracting this, again, was, like, I think we really liked our personal agents. You know, we're, like, we're trying to keep it there. But, I mean, the other thing I think is underappreciated is that when you're building sort of, like, AI products now, the surface area for, like, products and agents is really large. You know, before it was, like, oh, I've got a SaaS app. I can sort of, like, map out all the user flows and you go and build it and you sort of know how users will interact with your product.

15:26In the AI world, it's just, and with Plus One, what we noticed was, oh, we didn't even realize that you wanted to go do this thing. And, like, how do you support it? And so there was always, I talked a lot about, like, complexity. Like, building and managing complexity for builders versus, like, operators is a hard job. Like, builders, like, want to be exposed to the complexity. Because that's everything you want to do is going in there and tinkering and turning knobs and whatnot. But if you're trying to run a business, you're not really, you don't want to do that.

15:57You know, mostly you just want something that just works for you. And I think over time what we realized was, for us, we wanted something that just worked. We didn't want to deal with all the, like, little knobs and bells and whistles. And for the jobs that we were using an agent for, like a lot of project management operations and whatnot, it was, like, better to have something solid. Yeah. And to have it be sort of shared. So when you use it, you're pretty confident that it's the right thing to be using for your company.

16:29Yeah. And someone has thought about it. You know, thought about the skill or the feature or whatever. And so now we're in this place where we're launching the every agent. It's something that we use every day, like, many, many times a day. The company would kind of, like, fall over if we didn't have it. And we have a bunch of beta customers. And we're also in this moment where, for example, I'm using my dot all the time from OpenAI. And there's Muse and Instinct on the, like, personal agent side. One of the things, I'm curious for your bet here. One of the things that I feel is I think I will be using something like my dot in a year in Slack.

17:06Mm-hmm. Um, specifically because I use it inside of, like, it's basically just a portal to my codex. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But I probably won't. Mine is named Boo. Mm-hmm. And, like, it probably won't be named Boo. Mm-hmm. Like, Boo is going to be dead in a year. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. You know, like, lifespan six months maybe, you know? Because I, the personal thing or the personality thing is cool. Mm-hmm. But particularly in a work context, I mostly just care, like, does it do the thing? Yeah, yeah. And the minute there's, like, I'm like, oh, I have this personal connection.

17:36But the minute there's something that performs better, even if it doesn't have it, I'll just switch. Yeah. Um, I think there's much more room for that on the truly personal side. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think that's my bet with, with dots is, like, you still actually need a company agent, like, the every agent. And then that needs to play well with, like, everyone having their own, like, dot or dot-like thing that is basically a portal to their command center. Mm-hmm. What do you think? Yeah, I think, um, I think we can see the line between, like, professional and personal.

18:10Sort of shaping up very solidly. Uh, I think on the professional side, I do think it's sort of, like, a one agent per, um, like, company or org kind of structure. Because there are just so many advantages, again, to, like, it learning the workflows and what you do and everyone contributing just by working with it and making it better that it shapes itself to your company. And it's, like, the advantage of bringing a personal agent in, it's just going to be, it doesn't have that context here. It's going to be hard to teach.

18:41Like, it needs to have been there a year to really get up to speed. And so, I think, um, we're going to have that for the workplace. And I really don't see, like, us, or the industry repeating the chaos of, like, every worker gets their co-worker and we're all going to, like, double our company size, you know? Um, but on the personal side, I actually think the, I was talking about those, the forces, the opposing force, the one of personalization, I think is, is actually huge. Um, I, like, the thing that you love is that you have an agent that is just yours.

19:13And, you know, before the downsides there were, like, it was open cloud. How do I do security? How do I, how do I manage it? How do I, like, run it? You know, there are all these questions that, that prevented it from gaining larger adoption. And now that you have bigger players coming in and more money, it's just, like, oh, they've, we're starting to get closer to, like, a better consumer personal agent experience. And it's going to be, like, incredibly attractive. Yeah. Um, and so I think, I think we're going to see a split. I think we're going to see, like, I go to work and I work with my company agent at the company because we all are working together towards this collective goal.

19:46And at home, it's, it might just be me or me and my family that is using a personal agent to help us do very similar things. But it's, like, personalized to us. One thing that I'm really interested, we've been talking about this a lot. I think you have a very good perspective on, and I just want to hear more about it, is, um, you've had a long career in tech. Um, doing engineering management at, like, great startups, bigger companies, you've founded your own companies. You've led the engineering for this effort, um, with a team of, I don't know, five to seven-ish people.

AI and Engineering Management

20:21How has engineering management changed, especially over the last couple months? Mm-hmm. And what have you learned in the process of bringing this to market you didn't necessarily know? Ironically, engineering management, uh, feels the most similar out of any of the jobs that I've done before, uh, uh, in the present day. Especially, like, now getting to come back to it. And see what it's like in the age of AI. Mm-hmm. Um, I think, I think there are lots of advantages. Like, for an engineering manager, a lot of your, your leverage comes from the ability to, how much of the field you can see.

20:58Mm-hmm. And so, in previous years, you would spend a lot of time trying to gather that information. What would be an example of something that's on the field that you need to see? Oh, um, you know, there are a lot of Slack channels. You know, like, keeping up with Slack channels and emails and, uh, you know, customer reports and how do you, how are you doing the integration of all of this into a single place? And, like, like, um, I run a 10 feed, right? That, that does this where it, it consolidates, it consolidates that all into a single feed. Mm-hmm. And during the day, I can just kind of go through. And it really keeps me, gives me a much better, like, vision into everything going on related to the project.

21:33It's, like, okay, is, is marketing happening over here? Like, are we, are we seeing customer reports over there? Which normally would have been, you know, meetings, right? That makes sense, yeah. So, so for, for people listening who don't know, Tend is this, like, open source app I made that, um, you can create basically custom feeds for yourself where you hook up data sources. So, in this case, it's, like, meetings or, you know, Notion notes or anything like that. And then your AI can just automatically turn those data sources into a feed that, like, either has decisions you need to make or is, like, FYI, this thing happened in a meeting, here's, here's what you want.

22:05And it sort of learns over time what you want so you can make a feed for yourself. So you have one for your engineering stuff. I have one for just, like, the full company. What are a couple things that you've learned, maybe even in the last week from, like, reading that you might not have known otherwise? Yeah, a lot on the, like, marketing side of launching a product. So, like, normally when you're, when you're building a product, you're sort of in it with your, your teammates and you're, like, you're looking at screens and designs and user error bug, bug reports and whatnot. And, and you kind of have a feel for everything going on.

22:36But launching a product, there's, there's a lot of things and conversations and meetings that happen that are public, but they're just out in places where you, you don't necessarily have the time to check or, or the attention. And so it's, like, how do you go and grab those things and just make sure that, like, one, they're, you know, they're going the way you want them to, and two, that you know who to give guidance to. Like, sometimes, you know, the rumor mill of a company, like, comes back, it's, like, oh, did you hear we're doing this sort of thing? And it's, like, well, no, we shouldn't be doing that, but then who do I talk to is, like, a huge, a huge question.

23:11And, and as a manager, that's your leverage, right? It's, like, I need to be able to go and talk to and set guidance and set vision for all this. And so having sort of this, this higher, like, field marshal level view of a lot of things is just so helpful, even, even for a small team. Yeah. I think you've been the beneficiary or, I don't know if beneficiary, maybe it's the opposite beneficiary, on the receiving end of a few times where I'm, like, hey, I, like, read this thing in 10, like, that this happened in a meeting, like, what's going on here? Or, like, just, just to put my thumb on it or whatever.

23:42It's, I mean, for, as a manager, it's, like, it's, like, the coolest thing. And it can be, like, weird for employees. But, like, yeah, I'm very curious to see how that changes. Now would be a time as a manager, an engineering manager, where you could actually, like, be ripping tokens while you're managing a fairly large team. Like, what's, what is your take on that? I think a lot of it comes down to people. You know, I think the job of the manager is still, like, a force multiplier on folks. And so it's, like, where do I spend my, like, epsilon extra piece of energy?

24:16And it's really probably not on tokens for coding, right? And it's surprising, this is the part that's actually surprisingly very much the same is going, it's, like, a people, still very much a people job. You want it to be a people job. Now, the difference is your leverage has increased because their leverage has increased. And so the most valuable things for me recently have just been, like, what are the bottlenecks, right? And how do we go and remove the bottlenecks? And so it's funny as I sort of transition from, like, doing more technical work back into engineering management.

24:49Like, you see my token usage just fall off a cliff, right? Because I'm using it and it's sort of gathering all this information, but when it comes to action, like, there's no billion dollar, or sorry, billion token move I can make. It's mostly, like, we still need to sit down and, like, have a conversation, you know? Now, everyone, it can, like, there's a whole bunch of routing functions in there that are now, you know, help with AI, like, we can do summaries. Like, how do we summarize and pass information? A lot of jobs that managers used to do and a lot of the things that you used to be responsible for in terms of, like, ops and the health of the team in the company, like, are much less manual now.

25:33Have you automated that? I mean, mostly for the agent team, it's just, like, we're good. Like, it was just amazing to me having built a lot of dashboards and a lot of alerting systems. It was like, oh, no, we're, like, because it's really definable and really testable and agents are great at. Like, what's an example of, because I don't, to be honest, I don't look at a lot of, like, agent team health metrics that you're looking at. Like, what's an example of some of those dashboards?

Dashboards and Automated On-Call

25:59Well, some of them are what you might call, like, performance dashboards, right? It's like, how many errors are our API throwing, right? It's like a, okay, like, there's a dashboard for that. Same thing on the product side. It's like, oh, how many users are using them? But the real magic now is before it was, like, you had to set, like, alerting systems were, even just a few years ago, were still pretty, like, neolithic, right? It was sort of like, I'm going to set an alert.

26:29I'm going to set some bars. You know, it's usually above this or below this. And one place that just the magic is there is just, like, you can put an agent. It's like, look at this every five minutes and see if there's an anomaly. If there's an anomaly, do intelligent routing, they'll, like, alert me. You know, like, there's always things like setting up, like, on-call structures where you're, like, okay, this person needs to be on-call and this person needs to be on-call. And now you have a, like, you have an agent on-call as the first person all the time. You don't have to worry about vacation.

26:59You're not scheduling around. All these, like, sort of below-the-line pieces of engineering management have gotten much better. That's interesting. I want to throw it back at you. I'm curious, we were sort of on opposite sides before, where, how do you think this personal agent dynamic is going to play out? Look, I mean, my take on technology is you're never wrong. You're just too early, usually. So I'm still holding out that I might be right. No, I think my current feeling is a big, and I think you probably disagree with this, but a big reason why we went from everyone has their own to a company is they were just too hard to maintain.

27:40And that we will start to go from, there's a company one, which will continue to exist, and then that will start to subdivide into, like, teams, which you already kind of have. Like, we sort of also have a couple of these agents like Claudia or Bill, or there's a couple other ones that are floating around that different teams maintain that are just, like, for that team. And then that will probably, again, bifurcate a little bit, and maybe that's just a dot, an extension of your personal codex, but maybe it's something else.

28:11So I do think we will probably get to the shadow org chart at some point. I thought it might be a more bottoms-up, like, everyone has their own, and then we kind of, like, coalesce into, but now it seems like, actually, it's more likely to be. You make something really great that's at the top, and then you kind of split that out every once in a while when you need the specialization. Yeah, I mean, that sort of details a little bit of what we've seen of, like, folks who are trying to do, like, AI transformation, right, is, like, usually if you're a line engineer, you're not the one trying to do AI transformation in your company.

28:49You're, like, usually it's the CEO or someone high up who's, like, we really need to accelerate, and, like, we're struggling to do it, and, like, let's drop an agent in here that, like, everyone can use and see other people using. I'm also really intrigued by, like, if people are going to have, like, separate agents for each role. So, like, one of the things is, funny enough, in my, on the personal side, like, in GrokBot, I use GrokBot, and I was, like, I will run, like, I have, like, a lot of coaches, right?

29:21And for whatever reason, that mental model is, like, works really well for me, maybe because it maps to humans, so it's, like, you have a coach for this, a coach for this. What are your different coaches?

29:33I'm, like, I'm a terrible swimmer, which is really funny because I like to surf, but, like, I'm, like, a really bad lap swimmer for whatever reason. I was, like, okay, I need someone who's going to keep me on, like, a lap swimming cadence, you know? And why, but, like, why not have that just be, like, part of a bigger bot that, like, does a bunch of different things? Yeah, I mean, this is where it's, like, an interesting, sort of, like, why is it psychologically that I'm, like, I need this, sort of, like, this separation for this one role, you know? It's, like, do I have that, and then I have, like, a therapist, it's, like, do they talk together, you know?

30:07Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's funny because I can kind of line them up on jobs to be done, but, like, not in the way that I think that, like, if I rationally was trying to explain it, what it would look like. Yeah. You know, I have to deal with a storage unit. I don't have, like, a storage unit bot that's dealing with it. But, like, I do for, you know, maybe it's, like, is this a throwaway person? Do I expect to never, like, interact with them again? If it's transactional, it's, like, a thread in Codex. If it's, like, I'm building a relationship, you know, one day I will FaceTime my Grok bot into my workouts, you know?

30:39That is interesting. Yeah, I think that there's something about, it's almost saying to yourself, planting a flag, this is an area I care about and will care about for a long time that maybe you want a little bot for. Right now, my closest thing to that is, like, pinned tabs in Codex, but now those are totally outmoded because they just use dot, but there's no, like, similar, like, you can't have multiple dots. And I also wonder how much, like, context comes with it. So, I think the really interesting thing that's happening now is we're ratcheting up the amount of proactivity we allow.

31:14And so, Instinct and Muse and GrokBot are doing these things where they're starting to reach out. And I think when you have AIs that are reaching out, if it's all in Codex or Claude and it's coming at you and it's, like, you have to remember what thread it was. But if it's, like, Willie's swimming coach is reaching out, like, I'm, like, okay, this is a swimming coach. You know, okay, I know I can instantly place you in the conversation of, like, okay, I didn't swim enough, you know? Yeah, I'm sorry.

31:44Yeah, I love the productivity thing is a big deal. And that's something that we are just baking into the agent that I'm super excited about because, and this is very related to tend to, like, there's this whole thing that's starting to happen, which is it used to be that in order to make a feed of anything, you had to be a gigantic corporation with, like, hundreds of millions of users and a lot of money. And now everyone can have their own feed. And companies like ours can, you know, for example, in the Every Agent, it has frontier alerts that are just, like, okay, like, this thing happened, here's what it means for you.

32:16Which I'm super excited about. I think there's, like, so many places to go in that sort of proactively telling you what you need to know at the right time that it used to be that AI was not able to do that in a way that was good. But now with Jeb and some of these other things like Decisions API, it's, like, happening. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean, we very much have, like, a feed-based world, right, across everything. And it's a tension because, you know, I spend a lot of time on X, like, probably everyone, I assume. Everyone in the world spends time on X.

32:49And for me, it's, like, it's a funny sort of explore-exploit problem, which is, like, I'm on there mostly to, like, see the new ideas emerging and hear how people debate them. But there's also a lot of trash. And, like, you know, like, my, like, cognitive defenses say that, like, they have to be up. Like, I have to have my protections up when I'm reading it just because it's, like, I don't want to be dragged into this, you know, flame war or this whatever. I'm trying to sift out the nuggets from this stream of drops.

33:20And it's, like, it would be great if I didn't have to be that thing, right? If I had an agent that could take the brunt of that and then I get out the nuggets. That's actually something that's been helpful for me with my dot is, like, it does, especially, I mean, this is not a feed but, like, for Slack. Like, just telling me, here's a couple things that you probably missed. I think Slack's a feed, too. So helpful. It's so helpful. Yeah. Willie, always a pleasure. Always a pleasure. Thanks for joining. Bye. Bye.